Fish has swelling-BAD-please see PICS

[mixin]

Hello all,

This is one of my pair of 10yr old Silver Dollars. As you can see from the sub par pics, the fish has a large protruding internal swelling of some sort. It is definately worse on the left side and seems to be getting bigger all the time. I first noticed it about two weeks ago, but no one has been able to help me locally. I feel I owe the little guy a little more than a trip to the freezer after ten years. He seems to be acting normally and not in pain (yet) and eats very well. I tried to watch him to see him poop after feeding, but I only was able to watch for about 5min a couple of times. I was told by my LFS it could be constipation, but I have no idea. Timely advice from any members who have experience with this prob would be definately appriciated!! Also, any pertainate links would also be welcome!! My SD and I thank you very much!
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/mixin16/100_3519.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/mixin16/100_3518.jpg

[Lady Hobbs]

I can't tell and don't know as I'd know if I could. I'm thinking he may be full of internal parasites but it would only be a guess. Hope he makes it.

[sergo]

how often do you feed it? it could just need a good poop. does it swim ok?

[kimmers318]

Sorry, not much experience here either with that type of issue, but it doesn't look like what I have seen as bloat. Possibly as Hobbs suggested and internal parasite of some sort. Try some parasite meds to see if that helps.

[mixin]

how often do you feed it? it could just need a good poop. does it swim ok?
I do feed very minimally, and he is behaving normally that I can tell. The only thing that makes me think constipation is that I switched the main diet from primarily flake to a Nutrimax floating small pellet sometime shortly before the problem. I was thinking of catching him is a bucket of water and trying to "massage" very gently...? I know this would be terribly stressful for this excitable fish, and it'd be a risky shot at best. If I decided to treat for parasites would I need a hospital tank? Thanks all for your replies thus far - I dont think he has long now if I dont do something. Probably the parasite treatment would be least invasive at this point.

[Lady Hobbs]

There are some parasitic meds that can be put in the whole tank. Normally I wouldn't recommend treating unless you know what it is for sure but he is the mystery fish and this mass is growing. I think you have to take the chance to see if this is what it is.

[kenyth]

If constipation is the problem, I hear that duckweed has a laxative effect on fish, and that goldfish and silver dollars love it. It's also easy to find wild in the summer if you have ponds or lakes nearby.

[mixin]

If constipation is the problem, I hear that duckweed has a laxative effect on fish, and that goldfish and silver dollars love it. It's also easy to find wild in the summer if you have ponds or lakes nearby.
would give it a try, but the ice just melted on our lakes in MI, thanks tho.

[sergo]

shelled green peas are supposed to be for that too.

[mixin]

shelled green peas are supposed to be for that too.
Right, I heard that from my LFS. Do I use raw, cooked, frozen? Thanks!

[Lady Hobbs]

What gets me is the lump is on his side, not his stomach. Almost looks like a tumor.

[mixin]

The text below is a response I received from All Experts.com. This guy has 25+yrs experience in his family pet (LFS) buisness. Looks like a good start and lines up with what alot of you have already said. I will probably get this going tonite and keep anybody posted through this thread if there is any interest...?
Thanks again all for your concern - I really appreciate it.

Mike



Hi Mike;

Fish can be very difficult to photograph can't they? I could see him pretty well once I used a photo editor and brightened up the image. It still wasn't clear but at least I could get a basic idea of what it looks like. It could be an abcess from an infection of some kind. Since he's eating and acting normally otherwise, don't give up on him yet! If you could separate him to a quarantine tank you could treat with an antibiotic that absorbs into the fish. A ten gallon with only a heater, lights and air bubbles is all you need. No filter, no decorations or gravel. These things all absorb medicines and render them much less effective. You also don't want to put medicines in the main tank. That stuff makes a horrible mess in tanks and it's best not to treat fish that aren't sick anyway.

Kanamycin or "Maracyn 2" are the best for reaching internal bacterial infections. You could instead try a medicated food for bacterial infections. That's actually the best way to administer it. You still want to isolate him though. The other fish don't need the medicated food.

I hope he gest better soon...

At Your Service;
Chris Robbins

[Lady Hobbs]

Sounds like the same idea, huh? Even if you have a cooler to put him in, you could add an airline and treat him that way. Hope the guy survives. I love silver dollars.

[mixin]

Sounds like the same idea, huh? Even if you have a cooler to put him in, you could add an airline and treat him that way. Hope the guy survives. I love silver dollars.

Sorry Hobbs, I couldn't figure out how to PM you, but I hope you dont think that I went to another source because I doubted anyone...It's just that the fish is day to day and I wanted as much info as possible to give him the best chance. I greatly respect the regulars at AC, that's why this is the only fish forum I frequent.

[cocoa_pleco]

if its black, its a tumor.

[mixin]

I took Hobbs advice and put the little guy in a 3-4 gal cooler with a 50w heater and an airstone. I dosed with maracyn-2 for 5-days. I did a 50% water change in the cooler (adding water from the main tank) every two days just before adding that day's maracyn. Despite being easily freaked out, he seemed to do very well, eating and just hanging out. The lump seems to still be there, but I guess according to the instructions on the Maracyn, it's tine to take him out. Is it safe to just net him and dump him in the main tank? Or do I need to "rinse" him in a bucket of clean main tank water? Thanks so much to all who replied to this post, I'll post one more time once I get him into the tank and get a good look at him.

[Lady Hobbs]

Sorry Hobbs, I couldn't figure out how to PM you, but I hope you dont think that I went to another source because I doubted anyone...It's just that the fish is day to day and I wanted as much info as possible to give him the best chance. I greatly respect the regulars at AC, that's why this is the only fish forum I frequent.

LOL Never apologize to me for looking elsewhere. I was just making a guess as to what I thought it "could" be and I still think it's a tumor of some sort. Fish can also get cancer, absesses and ulcers. But I don't think the maracyn-2 will help with his problem. You could also try some medicated fish food to see if he losses internal parasites but generally fish will get listless and thin with parasites.

I hope this fish recovers for you.

PS.....anyone can be PM'ed by clicking on their name in their posts.

[mixin]

Well, 5+ days in cooler jail are over and I popped him back into the main tank. The good news is that all of the swelling on his right side is gone as is the swelling in the lower portion of his left side. (all swelling was adjacent to this lump --->) The bad news is that what's left is still the large lump on the left side that was there before. It almost looks like a small marble under his skin because it is so pronounced and round.

Since his condition did improve somewhat am I to assume this is a bacterial infection? Should I do a follow up dose of some kind of anti-biotic besides the maracyn-2? Thanks all!

[mixin]

Ok, so you might remember the marble-under-the-skin shaped swelling my fish had and that after the Maracyn-2 treatment for 5+ days the swelling of the marble and other swelling went down. Well, after a couple of weeks back in the main tank I noticed a whitish fleck on the now shrunken marble spot. I didnt pay it much attention, I just thought it was healing up. WELL last night I noticed the spot was now huge, and what had happened was the his skin had actually RETRACTED around the mass! So he was now swimming about with a fleshy mass hanging out! An hour later I checked him and he had EXPELLED the mass (which I never found in the tank) and the skin almost closed back up leaving a small hole in his side. Inside the hole you can tell there is an internal void under the skin where the other half of the sphere shaped mass was! I plan on dosing the tank with lots of stress coat to try to help him heal, but I dont know what to do other than that and hope for the best.

Anyone else ever seen that before? Thanks!

[cocoa_pleco]

isnt that a cyst then? cysts get bubble, then pop, then theres skin hanging and it heals. Melafix and pimafix should help you

[mixin]

isnt that a cyst then? cysts get bubble, then pop, then theres skin hanging and it heals. Melafix and pimafix should help you
That might explain why I never found the "mass". There was just so much flesh hanging out of his body and a definate void when it was gone- I thought it had to have fallen out. In retrospect, the flesh hanging out, while kinda shredded appearing, was probably a thin layer over the cyst.

Do I need to set up the cooler err-Hospital Tank again to dose with Melafix and pimafix? Thanks!

[cocoa_pleco]

i guess you should treat it with mela/pimafix to help it heal.

[Lady Hobbs]

Sounds like he had an abcess of some kind. Whatever you did brought it to a head. I would also recommend the Metafix and Primafix. There are all natural so should not bother the other fish if you leave him in the tank.

I wonder, if at some time, he had a worm that attached to him and caused this infection. Or an injury of some kind. Sure is strange, tho.

[cocoa_pleco]

i still think its a cyst. to be honest, my parents dog got that. It's a big cyst, it pops, then leaves flesh