Anemones and Kepping Them

[kaimarkhirst]

Morning all,

Can anybody tell me why it is so difficult in keeping an Anemone such as a Bubble Tip in a Tank please??

Everybody I talk to say "ooohhhhh you cant do that..." and its winding me up.... ME tank has cycled, the rock is growing beautifully with coral on it at an alarming rate, I have snails in there are there are good nutrients in the water, got 2 clownfish in there and they are loving it....

Light cycle is on a timer, 14,000 kelvin halide on a 8 hour timed cycle, but will up to 9.5 I think and I have 4 blue moonlight bulbs in there again, timed...

Water readings.

Ammonia... 0.0
Nitrite 0.005
Nitrate 0.0
Calcium 420mg/l
KH 85-90
Iron 0.0
Salinity 1.024
PH 8.2

Whats the average settling in period of newly added fish to your tank? I know it differs depending on what you get, but id like an idea to work on..

Can anybody help please??

P.S. Got my new HD camera and taking loootttssss of photos so wil lpost them!!!!!!!

[unleashed]

How old is the tank and what size is it?

[kaimarkhirst]

The tank is coming up to 2 weeks old, the rock is fully cured and it is a 28g Nano.

Ive been told I can keep 1 Bubble Tip in there....

[unleashed]

The reason why people say that your tank is not ready, is because anemones require very very stable water quality to survive.

While your tank may be cured and have good parameters, the truth is, new tanks are not stable. In the first 6-12 months, water quality and stability changes rapidly and these changes will most likely kill an anemone. Bear in mind that small tanks (<50g) are usually unstable anyway with small changes often having disastrous effects.

While your tank looks good now, I can almost guarantee that you will go through all the various algae cycles that I and nearly every other SW keeper has been through. The increased amount of growing and dying algae constantly changes your water parameters and quality. Also bear in mind that parameters which we cannot test for do exist and can have an impact on holistic stability of your aquarium.

It may sound annoying with people telling you "your tank's not mature enough" etc etc, but unfortunately it's true.

My personal advice would be to see how your tank is when it is about 4 months old or so and re-evaluate whether you want anemone or not.

Hopefully you take notice of what I've said above. Not to sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet, but I've been there and done that. When I started my first SW tank (30g), a couple of weeks into it I added an anemone (the tank was cycled). It was doing fine and roughly 2 months later it died and caused my entire tank to crash. I almost gave up the hobby because of it.

The reason it died was because I had a bad hair algae phase (not unusual for new tanks) and basically overnight, all the hair algae died resulting in extremely high nutrients and high ammonia levels.

EDIT:

When your tank is ready you should be able to keep a bubble tip anemone.

[kaimarkhirst]

ok cool..

Thanks for the info, its greatly appreciated. But what about the readings and fluctuations for the fish then??

As ive got a pair of clowns in there, only just added them and theyve been in a tank and populated an anemone. How will having no anemone in the tank affect the clowns??

[JaredCBell]

ok cool..

Thanks for the info, its greatly appreciated. But what about the readings and fluctuations for the fish then??

As ive got a pair of clowns in there, only just added them and theyve been in a tank and populated an anemone. How will having no anemone in the tank affect the clowns??


your tank is two weeks old! How is this fully cycled!?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

your tank is two weeks old! How is this fully cycled!?

Fully cured live rock can accomplish this.

[MonkeyPox]

Unless they're a pair, clowns are usually aggressive to other clowns.

Not having an anemone will add a little stress to clowns, but its not the worst thing in the world.

[JaredCBell]

Fully cured live rock can accomplish this.

Oh my bad I was thinking in my head fully mature when I read cycled. haha

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Oh my bad I was thinking in my head fully mature when I read cycled. haha

LOL, no, full maturation of a marine tank takes years.

[oldhead]

LOL, no, full maturation of a marine tank takes years.
This is not necessarily true though there are many that adopt the belief. However, the idea that it does take some time to establish a tank is correct. Tank maturity, amongst other things is typically a direct result of the level of husbandry provided and resources. When I started in the SW hobby most people would say that 1 year was considered "mature", soon there were those making the comments that it was two and then several. At the end of the day maturity and the time that it takes to reach what is considered that level can be influenced by numerous factors. And to place a hard and fast rule on when (not saying that you are) it will/has occurred is more the result of speculation when examining a tank.


Unleashed has written a great post for you regarding nem's. As for the settling in period for fish, that can be entirely dependent upon the fish being added. My reef chromis took about 2 weeks to get comfortable. My Yellow Tang decided the tank was his to roam inside 48 hours. The time it takes a fish to settle in can also be influenced by what other livestock are in the tank also. Just keep any eye on them, you'll be able to tell when they're comfortable. Can't wait to see the pics with the new cam. Hope things stay well with the tank.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I'll agree with you to an extent there. This topic actually came up not too long ago on another forum I post on. The answer that was given by someone I would consider to be an expert marine hobbyist, who has been in the hobby for roughly 30 years. This is how he defined an "established" tank (he uses established and mature interchangeably):

I would define an "established" tank as one that is at least a year old, inhabited by a diversity of non-fish, non-coral, flora and fauna, and has been stable for that entire time.

He preceded that by saying All facets of the aquarium should be established, with no mishaps, for a minimum of six months, with nine to twelve months being much better goals, for the tank to be considered "established", IMO.

[unleashed]

Generally the 'bread and butter' fish such as clowns, damsels, gobies and blennies are not really affected by these changes in water quality. This is because they are fairly hardy fish.

On the otherhand, many tangs, most angels and nearly all butterflies would either perish or have serious health issues if they were to be put under the same stresses.

Having no anemone will not affect the clowns in anyway. They can/will host is just about anything, for example; plumbing, rocks, large hermit crabs and pretty much anything.

If they are wild caught clowns, once they learn there are no predators then they should be out and about all the time

[Alpo]

Years ago I tryed this and failed also. Don't beat yourself over it and as for your clowns, they'll be fine.

[oldhead]

I'll agree with you to an extent there. This topic actually came up not too long ago on another forum I post on. The answer that was given by someone I would consider to be an expert marine hobbyist, who has been in the hobby for roughly 30 years. This is how he defined an "established" tank (he uses established and mature interchangeably):



He preceded that by saying


I don't disagree with what was said there, though you are quoting someone else's opinion or speculative knowledge. Since it does seem to be a hot object of opinion I'll throw mine in as believing that stability across about a year would be considered mature. Systems vary though, and there is no real way to baseline this sort of thing due to that fact. Either way, in this case the tank appears to be too young for the nem, all agreed.

[kaimarkhirst]

All fantastic opinions, thank you very much indeed and as long as my clowns are happy without an anemone, then im happy to wait and wait til I know the tank is completely stable. having one is not that important to me as keeping a stable tank.

Just to touch on what Monkeypox mentioned about the pair of perculas, they are a newly maturing pair. I know this 'cos I put a reserve on them after seeing them in the tank together, then another one next to it. I asked why they are in the tank together considering their aggressive personality, and Chris (My marine shop specialist) said that they are very happy together. Kept my Eye on these for three or so weeks while I decided on a tank and purchasing and they were still happy, even hosted the same anemone and neither had any signs of damage from recent battles that I didnt see, asked to see them eat, and inspected them closely, again, lovely specimens, wife fell in love with them, I was a bit anxious about the nature of these fish and buying the pair, but I was assued by both Chris and Scott that if there ar eany problel with them in th efuture, can bring them back and do an exchange after the 7 day health policy has gone, so I bought them. Would have had the 'mone aswell , but tank too young.

Update on the Clowns.. Getting ambitious!!!!! going lower in the tank, eating very well on both frozen and flake food 4 times a day, eating all I put in and looking around the coral, rock, presumably looking for predators. In any case they are moving further and further than the corner they are at, then returning so looking good so far. Hopefully in a few months, ill look at adding a 'mone for them, then think about another fish I suppose, maybe a blenny or a goby inbetween this... Well see but nto delicate fish are going in this tank as im in no position of experience to care for anythign such as a butterfly, angel or triggerfish...

Update on the tank.... Readings are lovely... Trites and Ammonia are dancing around the .1 range them settling down to 0.0 again.. But Im putting this down to tank immaturity and adjustments to livestock. Trates are 0.0 and have been for quite some time now.... Water chagnes on a sunday with pre-mixed saltwater, Calibrated to the exact SG, KH, CA, and PH of the tank, oh and its looking georgous!!!! Since adding the live rock ive found pipe worms and other such life, new coral polyps of various natures, and even a baby starfish!!!

Have opened a Photobucket account and going to take some piccies and put them there for all to see at now that ive hijacked the camera back from the boy after he came back from Download festi.... Then the wife after her night out...

Will keep updates coming....

[unleashed]

All fantastic opinions, thank you very much indeed and as long as my clowns are happy without an anemone, then im happy to wait and wait til I know the tank is completely stable. having one is not that important to me as keeping a stable tank.

Just to touch on what Monkeypox mentioned about the pair of perculas, they are a newly maturing pair. I know this 'cos I put a reserve on them after seeing them in the tank together, then another one next to it. I asked why they are in the tank together considering their aggressive personality, and Chris (My marine shop specialist) said that they are very happy together. Kept my Eye on these for three or so weeks while I decided on a tank and purchasing and they were still happy, even hosted the same anemone and neither had any signs of damage from recent battles that I didnt see, asked to see them eat, and inspected them closely, again, lovely specimens, wife fell in love with them, I was a bit anxious about the nature of these fish and buying the pair, but I was assued by both Chris and Scott that if there ar eany problel with them in th efuture, can bring them back and do an exchange after the 7 day health policy has gone, so I bought them. Would have had the 'mone aswell , but tank too young.

Update on the Clowns.. Getting ambitious!!!!! going lower in the tank, eating very well on both frozen and flake food 4 times a day, eating all I put in and looking around the coral, rock, presumably looking for predators. In any case they are moving further and further than the corner they are at, then returning so looking good so far. Hopefully in a few months, ill look at adding a 'mone for them, then think about another fish I suppose, maybe a blenny or a goby inbetween this... Well see but nto delicate fish are going in this tank as im in no position of experience to care for anythign such as a butterfly, angel or triggerfish...

Update on the tank.... Readings are lovely... Trites and Ammonia are dancing around the .1 range them settling down to 0.0 again.. But Im putting this down to tank immaturity and adjustments to livestock. Trates are 0.0 and have been for quite some time now.... Water chagnes on a sunday with pre-mixed saltwater, Calibrated to the exact SG, KH, CA, and PH of the tank, oh and its looking georgous!!!! Since adding the live rock ive found pipe worms and other such life, new coral polyps of various natures, and even a baby starfish!!!

Have opened a Photobucket account and going to take some piccies and put them there for all to see at now that ive hijacked the camera back from the boy after he came back from Download festi.... Then the wife after her night out...

Will keep updates coming....
Good on you for taking our advice and holding off on the anemone.

I would up your water change % a little to take care of that ammonia as it can have a disastrous effect in a small tank.

What size are the clowns?

If they are both small and the same size, chances are they are both male and one will soon change, or is changing into a female. Generally speaking, in a clownfish pair, males are small and the females are larger.

With regards to them hiding in the corner, they will eventually come out much more. Again, this mainly has to do with them nervous about their surroundings and their perception that there may be predators around.

[kaimarkhirst]

What size are the clowns?


Its hard to say, but looking at the pics ive got and the tank carefully, id say that they are roughtly the same size, with one mayby, and ill stress maybe one is slightly bigger than the other...

Have just changed 12% of the water out, and ill do another change later on in the week. With regards to your mention about the params, adn changes, what ill do is 15l twice a week, that should do it and keep the quality good...

Heres one though. When I did the water change, I turned the powerheads off. Now, the clowns were more active around the tank when the heads were off. Do you think in your opinion that the powerheads are a little too strong being on constantly, and they should go on a timer to mimic tidal times of the sea??

Kai

[labnjab]

What are you using for power heads? We have roughly 1600gph of flow in our 29 gallon between the power heads and return pump and it doesn't seem to bother the clowns or hawkfish at all, although the clowns hardly leave their anemone, lol. Power heads should be on all the time. As long as you don't have an extreme amount of flow the clowns should get use to them