Problem with my new set of fishes

[Citra]

I am new to Marine fish aquarium.(60 Galon)
I have done a setup with live rocks and live sand with big tank and my tank is two months old. Now Salt/ PH / Nitrate levels are perfect
But now I have a problem( I am not sure if this is common)

I have fishes dying in past one week (I have lost 1 yellow tail blue Damsel, two butterflies(one Latticed Butterfly fish and one stripped Butterflyfish), an angel and a moon wrasse.
Most of the fishes (1 inch to one and half) are small except the moon wrasse(4 inches)
I found some wounds on the fishes as if some other fish has bitten them.
I had 2 yellow tail damsels, two tridots, one clown fish, six butterflies, two neon dotty backs, two angels and two Gray (not sure of name gray with beautiful Blue dots on tail and face )damsels

I am not sure which one is biting the other
I find the other Latticed Butterfly fish trying to bite other Butterfly fishes and I find one Gray Damsel chasing all fishes. Others looks scared near these
I don’t know what needs to be removed.

[Northernguy]

Welcome to the Fabulous AC!

[travie]

What fish do you have in the tank right now?

[coachfraley]

What kind of butterflys & angels?

If I understand your post correctly, you have 17 fish in your tank. If that is the case,then you are WAY overstocked with some very aggressive fish. You will probably have to take out at least half of your fish in order to calm things down.

[unleashed]

As you are a beginner to saltwater, I would never recommend any species of butterfly or angel. These groups are both extremely difficult to keep. A large proportion of butterflies and angels are obligate feeders and 99% of aquariums cannot care for them.

I would recommend that you do the following:

Get rid of all the butterflies
Get rid of both of the angels
Get rid of one of the neon dottybacks (unless they are a male/female pair)
Get rid of all the damsels (these are extremely aggressive fish and have been known to kill fish much larger than themselves)

Basically, I recommend that you drain your tank and start over.

HOWEVER. YOU MUST RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!!!

Read every single line in these links:

READ THIS ONE FIRST!!! ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.])

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[Citra]

Thanks for all your valuable advice

I started with two tridot damsels ( very small fishes and quite peaceful and sometimes would chase each other ) and two Laticed butterfly fishes and two Stripped butterfly fishes (It has yellow and black stripes ...just like the black banded butterflies.) and neon two dotty backs(male female pair - Hardly comes out and stays together peacefully and hides close to 22 hours a day)

The tank is a 60 Galon one.

After some time I added two clowns and an anemone and a flowery coral.

My mistake was I did not know that butterflies eats invertebrates. So I lost the coral and blue carpet anemone and one clown.. Anemone also killed all my butterflies.. when they swam near its mouth… anemone just closed itself and no trace of fishes (Anemone must have digested them before dying)
I was so shocked to see this :( This is a one month back old story


Then I some how got some confidence and added some new fishes
I checked many sites for compatibility to see what eats what …. 

I had two new Latticed Butterfly fish and four stripped Butterfly fish, two midnight angels , a Lyre tail moon Wrasse , Two Yellowtail Blue damsel and
Two Gray damsels (not sure of name gray with beautiful Blue dots on tail similar to eye - The shop keeper said it is some honey damsel)

With my
Two Old Neon Dotty back and Two old Tridots and my tiny small Clarki clown (it’s pair died when anemone died)

I had 18 fishes all are maximum 1 inch to less an inch size except Wrasse which was close to 4 and half inches big before this fish dying problem started


Now one by one
I lost one angel, Lyretail wrasse, One Latticed Butterfly and one yellow stripped Butterfly and a yellow tail blue damsel

Yesterday and today Nothing died ... Thank god..……

I got the angel removed gave it back to shop keeper. But I could not catch other butterflies. I tried close to one hour.
I will try to get rid of the butterflies one by one asap.
now 12 fishes remains
Hope this killing spree stops..

[unleashed]

I hope you follow my previous advice before doing anything else with your tank

My answers in bold again....

Thanks for all your valuable advice

I started with two tridot damsels ( very small fishes and quite peaceful and sometimes would chase each other No damsel is "peaceful". All are extremely aggressive once established ) and two Laticed butterfly fishes and two Stripped butterfly fishes (It has yellow and black stripes ...just like the black banded butterflies.) Unless you are highly experienced, you should never add butterflyfish to your tank. They are extremly delicate and difficult to care for and neon two dotty backs(male female pair - Hardly comes out and stays together peacefully and hides close to 22 hours a day)

The tank is a 60 Galon one. A 60g tank should have no more than 6 small species of fish (gobies, blennies, chromis, clowns etc.) OR 4-5 medium sized fish...

After some time I added two clowns and an anemone and a flowery coral. Unless you have perfect water quality, a mature aquarium (6-12 months old) and over 150W of metal halide or T5HO lighting, you should not have an anemone. By flowery coral I take it you mean flower pot coral. Again, these are extremely difficult corals to keep

My mistake was I did not know that butterflies eats invertebratesNo all butterflies do. But all are extremely difficult. So I lost the coral and blue carpet anemone Doesn't surprise me as your tank is too young and unstable for either of these organisms and one clown.. Anemone also killed all my butterflies Chances are bullying caused fights and they accidentally swam into the anemone. It does happen especially in small tanks with major over crowding issues like yours.. when they swam near its mouth… anemone just closed itself and no trace of fishes (Anemone must have digested them before dying)
I was so shocked to see this :( It happens This is a one month back old story


Then I some how got some confidence and added some new fishes
I checked many sites for compatibility to see what eats what …. It is not just about what eats what. It is about compatibility with each other, the size of your tank, the age of your tank and many many other variables

I had two new Latticed Butterfly fish and four stripped Butterfly fish Another massive mistake and waste of money on your part. You do not have near the experience/knowledge or the right tank settings for these fish, two midnight angels Should be ok provided they are a proven male/female pair. Otherwise one will eventually kill the other, a Lyre tail moon Wrasse , Two Yellowtail Blue damsel and
Two Gray damsels (not sure of name gray with beautiful Blue dots on tail similar to eye - The shop keeper said it is some honey damsel)

With my
Two Old Neon Dotty back and Two old Tridots and my tiny small Clarki clown (it’s pair died when anemone died)

I had 18 fishes all are maximum 1 inch to less an inch size except Wrasse which was close to 4 Chances are the moon wrasse, a prolific predator and quite aggressive, killed most of the other fish and half inches big before this fish dying problem started


Now one by one
I lost one angel, Lyretail wrasse, One Latticed Butterfly and one yellow stripped Butterfly and a yellow tail blue damsel Not to sound too rude, but it was your ignorance which caused the deaths of these fish. Simple research would have shown that your stocking ideas were totally unacceptable and examples such as yours give this hobby a very very bad reputation

Yesterday and today Nothing died ... Thank god..……They will

I got the angel removed gave it back to shop keeper. But I could not catch other butterflies. I tried close to one hour. Drain out 90% of the water (but keep it in a container) and take out all of your rock and put into into the container of your tank water. It will be much easier to catch them all
I will try to get rid of the butterflies one by one asap.
now 12 fishes remains Try and get this down to no more than 6, with no butterflies whatsoever
Hope this killing spree stops..It won't

I hope you do take my advice seriously and don't get offended by what I said.


Follow these steps:

Get rid of all of your fish
Leave the tank running, without fish, for 2 weeks, preferably more in order to allow your tank to settle down.
Add 1 peaceful fish. (Research it first to see if it will be compatible)
After a week or two, add one, maybe 2 small peaceful fish (again research each species heavily to see if they are compatible

If you want to add an anemone. Your tank needs to be at least 6-12 months old, perfect water quality with extremely intense lighting (this is not cheap).

Corals again need to be researched properly before purchasing them. Like anemones. They require good water quality and correct lighting to survive

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

You need to read those links that unleashed posted for you. Those links will teach you exactly what you are doing wrong with your stocking on that tank. You cannot approach stocking in a marine tank the same as you do in a freshwater tank, it simply does not work. You can't throw in multiple specimens of various species, things don't work that way in these tanks. Damsels are not peaceful fish, they will terrorize your tank.

The killing spree will only end when you start stocking the tank properly, but you will need to read those links.

As unleashed stated, butterflies and angels are not fish for beginners, both are difficult, the butterflies especially, and should only be kept by people with experience in marine tanks.

Unfortunately you have started by learning by trial and error, and that is not the way to approach a marine tank. You need to do a lot of research before you start. Learning as you go gets you into situation like this. There is lots of information out there to show you how you should be stocking your tank, and unleashed has linked you to that information.

Post a list of the fish that are in the tank now and we can advise you which ones need to go, and give you recommendations of fish you should be looking at keeping.

Please, though, do read through those links. You can succeed at this tank, but it will take the right knowledge to do so. We are here to help, please ask as many questions as you need to, we are happy to answer them. :)

[Citra]

Thanks for those valuable comments.

My grave mistake was I listened to the shop keeper.
I should have first searched in internet

I am taking all your advices seriously and I sucessfully removed all buterflies
I have 5 damsels , a clown and two dotty backs
I will remove damsels asap

I actually ran my tank without fish for close to 31 days initially and only after that I started adding fishes

My tank has lots of greens on the live rocks and brown algea

Now is it again needed to run without fishes? Please advise.

Then one more mistake is that I was feeding the dried fish food packet.
But I read that midnight angel is a herbivore. Luckly I save one and returned to the shop

[saix88]

Absorb every word Unleashed said....

After doing so, snails will eat the algae off the rocks. Don't get a dottyback, go with a royal gramma.

Did the person at the store know this is your first tank and it is just starting up? If so I would stop going there because you are easy money. Sorry to hear about all that loss of fish AND money. Never buy a fish on instinct or at least find a very knowledgeable store that cares.

[kaybee]

...I had 18 fishes all are maximum 1 inch to less an inch size except Wrasse which was close to 4 and half inches big...

In addition to what has been advised, re-stock based on the maximum or full grown size of species rather than size at time of purchase. For example a small 1" "tri-dot" (domino?) damsel can become a fairly large and aggressive 5" fish; the 4.5" moon wrasse can double its length when full grown. Be familar with how large the fish can become under proper care.

[Citra]

I have removed all fishes from my tank
Should I have to run without fishes for a month?
Please advise.

[unleashed]

I would run the tank fishless for about 2-3 weeks and give it a chance to recover.

Then I would add maybe one small easy to keep fish such as an Ocelaris Clownfish ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]). You could even get away with adding a pair of orange spotted prawn gobies ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]).

Then I would leave it at least 2 more weeks before adding any other livestock so your tank gets used to the fish you have

[Citra]

Thanks again for your kind advises.

Actually I still own the small Clarki clown and 2 small Neon Dotty backs.
Shop keeper refused to take them back. :|
He kept saying the clown will not survive without a pair.
Earlier when Anemone died I tried giving the clown back and he did not take it back saying it will die.
My clown lived successfully for one month and is very active until this moment.

Then for Neon Dotty backs he said they have faded off
Its true that the blue color has gone light now.

After a great search I managed to find a shop owned by a biologist.
he has agreed to keep the three fishes and asked me to take it back in a month
:|
He said there is nothing wrong with all the three fishes.

So how do I save this little clarki clown and clown cannot live without an anemone/pair is it? I have seen clowns in many tanks without anemone

Then could it be because of some problem with my tank.. Dotty back has faded off?
I am sure the color has become bit light now on both the fishes.


One thing I noticed in most of the shops is that they use Damsels to test water condition of tanks!!! All the shops sells damsels to new tanks first.
If the tank owner knows knowledge on fishes then may be he can ask for what he wants but only damsels are suggested as first fishes for anyone new !!

[AABatteries]

Really can't help with your clown problem. Sorry. :ssad:

But, on the side note. If you do want damels, you could get a group a 5, 7, or 9 and probably do fine. I've read if keep in large enough, odd numbered groups they will stay more community like. Of course, you still have to add then last.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

That shop keeper straight up lied to you. Clown fish will not die as a direct result of being kept as a single specimen or from not having an anemone.

It is likely the color has faded on the Dottybacks due to the water quality in the tank. Once your tank is up and running properly with a proper stocking level, the color should return nicely. It may also have something to do with diet but that is a bit more difficult to determine without more information. What have you been feeding the fish?

[Citra]

Thanks for your comments

I am not sure why the shop keeper did not take my Clown back :(

Everyday once I used to feed the fishes with a fish food (just once pinch which has some 20-25 pellets.
The ingredients mentioned are High quality fish meal, Soy bean meal, yeast powder, wheat flour, color enhancer, attractant, vitamins, minerals, fish oil and lecithin etc
It smells very strong like dried fish and are in the form of very small granules

I have got some PH , nitrate and salt level testing kits and levels are within the ranges specified.

I put some 10 ml of an aquatic deodorant tonic which has deammonifiers and denitrifiers once in three days.

Then I put some 10 ml of Marine Bio elements and vitamins tonic is put once in two weeks. It has active calcium, strontium, coral iodide and magnesium booster.

[GeneralGoldeneye]

sounds like a lot of fish for a fairly new tank

[Citra]

Thanks Generalgoldeneye

Now I dont have any fishes in my tank. when I restock again I will be cautious.

Do you have any comments on the color fading of Dottyback

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

It is likely the color has faded on the Dottybacks due to the water quality in the tank. Once your tank is up and running properly with a proper stocking level, the color should return nicely. It may also have something to do with diet but that is a bit more difficult to determine without more information. What have you been feeding the fish?

I believe that was covered. thumbs2:

[GeneralGoldeneye]

Thanks Generalgoldeneye

Now I dont have any fishes in my tank. when I restock again I will be cautious.

Do you have any comments on the color fading of Dottyback

Color fading could be due to stress on the fish water quality or sickness

[Citra]

On Fish Food

Everyday once I used to feed the fishes with a fish food (just once pinch which has some 20-25 pellets.
The ingredients mentioned are High quality fish meal(This has shrimps and fried fish solids) , Soy bean meal, yeast powder, wheat flour, color enhancer, attractant, vitamins, minerals, fish oil and lecithin etc
It smells very strong like dried fish and are in the form of very small granules

I have got some PH , nitrate and salt level testing kits and levels are within the ranges specified.

I put some 10 ml of an aquatic deodorant tonic which has deammonifiers and denitrifiers once in three days.

Then I put some 10 ml of Marine Bio elements and vitamins tonic is put once in two weeks. It has active calcium, strontium, coral iodide and magnesium booster.

[Citra]

Hi ILuvMyGoldBarb

Thanks for your previous comments

do you feel anything wrong with this fish food ?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Well, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure where you live so I'm not sure what you have available to you. Personally I like to feed my fish a nice mixture of a good quality pellet like New Life Spectrum and frozen mixtures such as Formula One or Two (depending on weather the fish are carnivorous or herbivorous) by Ocean Nutrition. In addition to that I also provide them with dried Nori once a week.

The ingredients you describe actually fits the description of a number of different foods. What brand is it?

[Citra]

Hi ILuvMyGoldBarb

Thanks for your comments
I live in India and the fish food that I bought is made in Taiwan.
I am pretty sure you would not have come across the same.

I forgot to mention that we normally have hot temprature here