New Tank Cycling Question

[CaptainKid]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, found it a few days ago, decided to join. Looks like there are a bunch of knowledgeable people here...

OK, before I begin, a DISCLAIMER.
I'm new to the world of fish and have recently started a 29 gal. (24X12X24) aquarium. Now, please note, I wasn't aware of fish-less cycling before I found this forum. Guy at the LFS (who I won't be using anymore) told me to cycle the tank with fish.

Anyway, I'm a little over a week into my cycling, having added the fish to the tank about 2 days after set-up. Fish have now been in for 9 days. So far, all the fish are doing fine, swimming around, eating, etc... Temp in the tank is pretty steady at about 79º, fluctuates to about 82º during the hottest time during the day these days and about 76º during the coldest of the evenings.

New LFS has me adding "Ultra Aquarium Starter" to the tank every 5 days. 2 doses have been added at the time of this writing.

Im using "Tetra Test" water testing kits to check all my levels and have the following results for today:

Ammonia = 0.25 mg/L
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L
Nitrate = 12.5 mg/L

My questions is: How's the condition of my water looking based on these results, and should I do anything at this moment in time, or just let things go as they are?

I appreciate any help or advice you all can provide.

Cheers,

D

[Lady Hobbs]

Do you mean 3. for nitrites instead of .3? I have no reading less that .25 on my test kit and they run in increments of 25.

[Chrona]

Have you disturbed the gravel or filter at all since adding the fish? I could not find anything about that product on Google, but I think it may:

1) be some kind of ammonia neutralizer, since your readings essentially zero, given the % error of test kits. In this case, you are merely putting off the cycling process. What does the package say it does?

2) contains live bacteria. Is this product Biospira by any chance? Was it refrigerated? Some bacterial additives can cycle a tank in a few days or less.

[CaptainKid]

Hi Chrona & Hobbs,

First, Hobbs, my test chart has the following levels:
<0.3 mg/L - Yellow color
0.3 mg/L - Orange color
0.8 mg/L - Reddish/Orange color
1.6 mg/L - Red color
3.3-33 mg/L - Darker Red color

My reading is 0.3 mg/L - Orange on the light side.

Kit is called Tetra test - NO-2 Nitrite. Tester includes a 10cc/ml rectangle test vial, 2 - 10ml test reagents, etc...

_______

Second, Chrona, I didn't disturb the gravel at all. The product sys the folling:
"Activates biological filters,
Reduces startup time
Matures new tanks
Removes ammonia and nitrites"

"Cleans biological filters
Reduces waste build-up
Improves filter activity
Reduces cleaning intervals"

"Cleans Tanks
Removes fish waste
Removes uneated food
Improves fish health"

Wasn't in a fridge when he gave it to me, but he told me to put it in the fridge after I opened it. Back label says " Made in the U.S.A. ® Registered Trademark of Water Quality Science International Inc."

Thanks for the quick response! thumbs2:

D

[CaptainKid]

Anyone? Any info would greatly help.

Thanks.

[sergo]

well i'd like to say your tank is almost cycled but it can't be if you are fishy cycling and only 9 days into it. have you been keeping a record of the test results so you can compare? if so what are they? you numbers are weird. i suggest maybe a small water change to help the fish out. please supply additional cycling data.

[Glasstapper]

_______

Second, Chrona, I didn't disturb the gravel at all. The product sys the folling:
"Activates biological filters,
Reduces startup time
Matures new tanks
Removes ammonia and nitrites"

"Cleans biological filters
Reduces waste build-up
Improves filter activity
Reduces cleaning intervals"

"Cleans Tanks
Removes fish waste
Removes uneated food
Improves fish health"

Wasn't in a fridge when he gave it to me, but he told me to put it in the fridge after I opened it. Back label says " Made in the U.S.A. ® Registered Trademark of Water Quality Science International Inc."

Thanks for the quick response! thumbs2:

D

that product you're putting in to help your cycle is actually hurting it because it's removing ammonia and nitrites. also, any product that claims to remove ammonia and nitrites can also mess up your test results, so the test could be wrong. I would stop adding that stuff in there, and let nature take it's course. In order to cycle, you need ammonia and nitrites, and if this product is removing them, then it's creating difficulty in cycling.

Also, what fish are you using to cycle your 29 gallon, and how many? For example, if you are using only 3 zebra danios, your cycle may take a while to peak at ammonia and at nitrite. On the other hand, if you're using say 8 zebra danios, then your ammonia and nitrite will spike much higher and much quicker. You're also more likely to lose some fish that way, as well.

Why is the temperature fluctuating? It isn't near a window or where the air conditioner/heater air is blowing, is it? Temperature fluctuations may cause some problems for you, too. 76 degrees at night to 82 during the day seems to be more of a fluctuation than normal. Normal would only be a couple of degrees or so.

I hope this helps you, and welcome to the forum! :)

[Drumachine09]

Welcome to the A.C.!

[CaptainKid]

Hi Glasstapper,

Thanks for the reply.

OK, here's some more info...

There are 6 fish in the tank; Few Gourami's, Dalmatian molly, assorted platies, have been in since the beginning and haven't lost anyone.

The first water test was done by the LFS.

Second, third and fourth tests were done by me, with the following results:

3/7/07
Nitrite = 0.2-0.3 mg/L
Ammonia = 1.5 mg/L
PH = 8.0 mg/L

3/8/07
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L
Ammonia = 0.25 mg/L
Nitrate = 12.5 mg/L

3/10/07
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L
Ammonia = 0.25 mg/L
Nitrate = 12.5 mg/L

Now as far as the temp. A few days ago, the temp outside rose pretty high, was quite a hot day and the temp inside went up as did the tank. Then a couple of nights later the temp at night dropped really low. Tank is not near a window, it's across the room from the nearest window. Temp has been steady for the past couple days at about 79º.

I hope this provides a bit more info. Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

Thanks to everyone for the kind welcome.

Cheers,

D

[sergo]

?
how many live plants do you have?

[Cichlid_Man]

Hi Captain!

First thing here is you have to try and stabilize the temperature of the water.

Fluctuation like that causes stress, stress causes disease like Ich...

Your water doesn't look quite as bad as some numbers I have seen, but keep in mind, ammonia is deadly to fish at any level.

What's the PH? I don't see you reported that yet.

Anyway, since you started with fish....just keep monitoring the water chemistry and do frequent water changes of about 25%. Every other day...

If you can get your hands on a product called bio spira, buy it and you will cycle in a day or two, but you need to make sure the LFS keeps it refrigerated and fresh. If you can get it, you can forget the 25% water changes every other day and just do them weekly.

Hope this helps!

[Chrona]

Hey, sorry I didn't respond earlier

1) I would stop adding that starter solution. By absorbing ammonia and nitrite, you are starving the bacteria you need for a healthy aquarium. Better yet, continue to add it, but decrease the dosage by a small amount every day until you are not adding any at all. The product is keeping your ammonia and nitrite levels artificially low, so it's difficult to discern what stage you are at.

2) Why is the temp dropping at night? I can understand if the temp went higher than normal because most people don't have a tank chiller, but not the other way around. What's the wattage on your heater?

[CaptainKid]

Hi Cichlid_Man,

Thanks for the reply. I totally hear ya on the water temp issue. I've been trying to ensure the temp doesn't flux too much. So far so good.

PH was 8.0 mg/L tested on 3/7/07

So far, all the fish seem to be doing fine. They've been in for 11 days now and are eating (once a day at the moment) and are pretty active.

I'll check with my LFS for bio spira, and make sure they have it in the fridge if they do.

Thanks again.

__________________________________________

Hi Chrona,

The starter solution is being added at the rate of 2 teaspoons every 5 days. I will stop adding, as the next one would be due early next week.

The temp dropped because of the really weird weather we have in CA. Was super hot during the day the other day, kept the windows open to let air circulate then at night the temp dropped insanely low! Heater was still on but I guess it couldn't keep up with the low temp.

Heater is a Visi-Therm Stealth 100 watt.

__________________________________________

Thanks for the feedback guys.

D

[Chrona]

Hi Chrona,

The starter solution is being added at the rate of 2 teaspoons every 5 days. I will stop adding, as the next one would be due early next week.

The temp dropped because of the really weird weather we have in CA. Was super hot during the day the other day, kept the windows open to let air circulate then at night the temp dropped insanely low! Heater was still on but I guess it couldn't keep up with the low temp.

Heater is a Visi-Therm Stealth 100 watt.
D

Add 1/2 a teaspoon of that solution next week. The end goal is to not be dependent on that to remove waste, but it should be done slowly. You want some ammonia in the water to stimulate bacterial growth, but not enough to harm the fish.

Also, I would recommend a bigger heater (try for 5+ watts/gallon in your case) Bigger ones usually only cost marginally more than the smaller ones, and because it is bigger, it will be on less and you won't spend any more on electricity. You aren't going to be able to do much about the higher temps short of investing a few hundred dollars in a chiller, but the low temps is pretty easily remedied. Make sure to put the heater in an area of high flow too.

[CaptainKid]

Thanks for the advice Chrona.

I'll look into a heater the next size up.

Thanks to everyone who's responded!

Cheers,

D

[Chrona]

Is your avatar one of your gouramis btw? Very pretty.

[CaptainKid]

Yes it is. Thanks! That's my crazy Blue Gourami. Likes to chase all the other fish around.

thumbs2:

[CaptainKid]

Hey All,

I have an update, and a question.

I have done some more tests of my water chemistry and after talking to my LFS, I'm not quite sure how to proceed.

As of today, here are some facts:

1. New Tank.
2. Fish Cycling.
3. Fish have been in for 14 days.
4. No water changes yet (on the advice of the LFS)
5. Water temp steady at 78º-80º

Here are the latest test results, including todays:

3/10/07
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L
Ammonia = 0.25 mg/L
Nitrate = 12.5 mg/L

3/12/07
Ammonia = 1 mg/L
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L
PH = 8.0

3/13/07
Ammonia = 1.0 mg/L
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L
Nitrate = 12.5 mg/L

Now, my LFS told me today, not to change any water yet as I will slow down the natural cycle. Told me to hold off and see where the levels are at by Friday. Said that the Nitrite levels have to rise more as the Ammonia is consumed.

My water is getting a little cloudy now and I'm afraid that things might go bad instead of better. What should I do? Do I listen to my LFS? Is there any truth to what they're saying. They seem like really knowledgeable people, very clean store, healthy fish, long history in the biz. Or do I ignore them and take another course of action?

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks in advance.

-D

[Chrona]

Your LFS is right in that doing a water change will slow things down. The cloudiness is normal, and is simply bacteria building up in the water column. This will go away by itself in a few days. I would wait as instructed and continue to monitor water conditions. To be honest, I don't know if the gouramis will survive the cycling process, but I've always thought that it is better to get it over with rather than let them sit in mildly toxic water for a longer period of time. Just my 2 cents.

[CaptainKid]

Hi Chrona,

Thanks for the reply.

Ammonia contines to rise. As of this morning, it's about 1.0-1.25 mg/L. One of my Gourami's is pretty F'd up. Bumping into plants and rocks as it tries to swim, then just sinks to the bottom and lays on it's side... waiting to die I guess.

I'm assuming this is par for the course and normal during a cycle process.

Again, today is the 15th day of the cycle, not quite near the end yet. 6 fish, 1 seems to be on its way out. Others seem to be OK, at least the other non gourami's. Blue gourami is a bit dark today... will continue to monitor.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again,

D

[sergo]

poor fishies :(

[Chrona]

Hi Chrona,

Thanks for the reply.

Ammonia contines to rise. As of this morning, it's about 1.0-1.25 mg/L. One of my Gourami's is pretty F'd up. Bumping into plants and rocks as it tries to swim, then just sinks to the bottom and lays on it's side... waiting to die I guess.

I'm assuming this is par for the course and normal during a cycle process.

Again, today is the 15th day of the cycle, not quite near the end yet. 6 fish, 1 seems to be on its way out. Others seem to be OK, at least the other non gourami's. Blue gourami is a bit dark today... will continue to monitor.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again,

D

What are the nitrite and ammonia readings? If you have high nitrites, you can add a bit of aquarium salt (1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water )to reduce nitrite poisoning without affecting the cycle. It is up to you about the water change though. It was just my belief that it's better to just wait it out. Others may say that doing a 25% water change will give the fish a better shot of surviving.

[CaptainKid]

Hi Chrona,

Ammonia is what I tested this morning; 1.0-1.25 mg/L is what I'm seeing. I tested all last night and the Nitrite was 0.3 mg/L, so not high at all.

Aquarium salt was previously added per the advice of my LFS, not going to add anymore until a water change.

Now, I understand that the ammonia and nitrite should "spike" at some point before they drop. Is this what's happening here? Ammonia spikes, then nitrifying bacteria build and produce Nitrites (ammonia drops), then the same with Nitrite consuming bacteria... producing Nitrate (Nitrite drops)... and so on...?

Thanks again for yer help.

D

[Chrona]

Hi Chrona,

Ammonia is what I tested this morning; 1.0-1.25 mg/L is what I'm seeing. I tested all last night and the Nitrite was 0.3 mg/L, so not high at all.

Aquarium salt was previously added per the advice of my LFS, not going to add anymore until a water change.

Now, I understand that the ammonia and nitrite should "spike" at some point before they drop. Is this what's happening here? Ammonia spikes, then nitrifying bacteria build and produce Nitrites (ammonia drops), then the same with Nitrite consuming bacteria... producing Nitrate (Nitrite drops)... and so on...?

Thanks again for yer help.

D

Hmm, that's odd that the levels have stayed the same for so long...

You are right about the nitrogen cycle. That's basically how it works, however, it doesn't seem like much is changing...did you stop adding the aquarium setup solution? How old is the test kit and are you adding anything else to the tank?

[CaptainKid]

Hmm, that's odd that the levels have stayed the same for so long...

You are right about the nitrogen cycle. That's basically how it works, however, it doesn't seem like much is changing...did you stop adding the aquarium setup solution? How old is the test kit and are you adding anything else to the tank?

Test kit was just purchased from my LFS about a week ago or so, seemed to be a new shippment to the store, so I'm assuming it's pretty new. Nothing else is being added to the water.

BTW, the water cloudiness is less today than yesterday.

[Chrona]

Test kit was just purchased from my LFS about a week ago or so, seemed to be a new shippment to the store, so I'm assuming it's pretty new. Nothing else is being added to the water.

BTW, the water cloudiness is less today than yesterday.

Is the cloudiness white in color? If so, that's good news, as you are progressing in your cycle (the first wave of bacteria exploded in population size, and so can actually be seen in the water column. They are now dying off as food runs out, and will stablize)

[CaptainKid]

Is the cloudiness white in color? If so, that's good news, as you are progressing in your cycle (the first wave of bacteria exploded in population size, and so can actually be seen in the water column. They are now dying off as food runs out, and will stablize)

Yes, the cloudiness is white-ish in color. This happened once in the beginning, maybe a couple days after adding the fish, then cleared. Now again. Is this bacteria explosion a result of the high levels of ammonia? If so, why are they levels still rising?

[Chrona]

Yes, the cloudiness is white-ish in color. This happened once in the beginning, maybe a couple days after adding the fish, then cleared. Now again. Is this bacteria explosion a result of the high levels of ammonia? If so, why are they levels still rising?

My best guess would be that the initial explosion was due to the ammonia produced by the fish, which was subsequently eaten up by the cycling product. The bacteria died off for the most part, and after not dosing the ammonia eater for a while, the bacteria population is back up again.

[CaptainKid]

Thanks Chrona, I'll keep monitoring... see where things go.

ALSO. This morning I took the gourami that seemed to be dying out of the tank so the other fish wouldn't keep nipping at him. He was pretty motionless, laying on his side at the bottom. I figured he'd be dead in an hour or so, so I placed him in a small bowl of fresh water (de-chlorinated of course) just so he could live out his last minutes in peace.... However, as of now, he's not dead. He's swimming again, not laying on his side and seems to be feeling better. SO, what do I do? I don't want to reintroduce him to the tank that he was dying in, if the conditions haven't changed, but he can't live in the bowl for very long... no heater, etc... My wife is changing some water every 2 hours in an effort to keep water fresh and oxygenated and close to the temp of the tank.

Any ideas? :confused:

Thanks,

D

[Chrona]

Thanks Chrona, I'll keep monitoring... see where things go.

ALSO. This morning I took the gourami that seemed to be dying out of the tank so the other fish wouldn't keep nipping at him. He was pretty motionless, laying on his side at the bottom. I figured he'd be dead in an hour or so, so I placed him in a small bowl of fresh water (de-chlorinated of course) just so he could live out his last minutes in peace.... However, as of now, he's not dead. He's swimming again, not laying on his side and seems to be feeling better. SO, what do I do? I don't want to reintroduce him to the tank that he was dying in, if the conditions haven't changed, but he can't live in the bowl for very long... no heater, etc... My wife is changing some water every 2 hours in an effort to keep water fresh and oxygenated and close to the temp of the tank.

Any ideas? :confused:

Thanks,

D

You could float a well cleaned tupperware in the tank and change the tupperware water often, ie once or twice a day.

[CaptainKid]

You could float a well cleaned tupperware in the tank and change the tupperware water often, ie once or twice a day.


Well, I tried.. but was unsuccessful in saving the gourami. He died right after I got home from work. I gave him a proper burrial at "sea" and played Amazing Grace on the bagpipes! LOL.

So far all other fish in the tank are doing OK. My blue grouami is still a bit on the dark side, but getting lighter as of today. They all continue to be active and eat, even though I'm feeding very, very small amounts.

Thanks for the help Chrona, and everyone else who chimed in. I appreciate it, and I'm sure I'll have other questions as my new hobby continues.

thumbs2:

[Chrona]

Well, I tried.. but was unsuccessful in saving the gourami. He died right after I got home from work. I gave him a proper burrial at "sea" and played Amazing Grace on the bagpipes! LOL.

So far all other fish in the tank are doing OK. My blue grouami is still a bit on the dark side, but getting lighter as of today. They all continue to be active and eat, even though I'm feeding very, very small amounts.

Thanks for the help Chrona, and everyone else who chimed in. I appreciate it, and I'm sure I'll have other questions as my new hobby continues.

thumbs2:

Sounds like your waste levels are dropping. Keep us posted!

[Mastodon]

Wow,i feel for ya,good luck bud!!!:thumb:

[kenyth]

It's probably too late for this, but I'd buy a big clump of Hornwort and throw it in there. Let it float and leave the light on at least 12 hours a day. That stuff will introduce bacteria and suck up the contaminants. Make sure it's a nice green clump. If not, buy a couple clumps and cut off the brown parts. The stuff is cheap.

If you can, while you're getting the Hornwort, get your LFS to give you some dirty water gravel vac'd from a SA cihlid tank using an UGF, or as near as you can get to those parameters. Take in an old gallon milk jug. A chain store like pet smart may not let you do this.

[CaptainKid]

Hey Chrona, & Everyone Else.

Here's an update on my tank situation.

My Ammonia levels were continuing to rise up until a few days ago.

On 3/16/07 I traded in my bio wheel for one that has been "cycling" for a couple of months at my LFS. They were concerned because it didn't seem as though my tank had any Nitrifying bacteria and my ammonia levels were too high for too long. Well, I guess this worked, because as of today, there is a significant difference in my water chemistry.

Here's what my results are as of today:

3/19/07 - Ammonia = 0-0.25 mg/L
3/19/07 - Nitrite = 1.6 mg/L
3/19/07 - Nitrate = 12.5 mg/L
3/19/07 - PH = 8

Now compared to 3/18/07
Ammonia = 1.0 mg/L
Nitrite = 0.4 mg/L

And 3/15/07
Ammonia = 1.5 mg/L
Nitrite = 0.3 mg/L

So, it seems that my cycling is finally moving along. Ammonia is dropping, Nitrite is rising, and hopefully will drop. So far so good. All remaining (5) fish are doing good, active, eating, etc... So far, only lost one fish.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers.

CaptainKid