First Tank, First Post

[Openeye]

Howdy AC. Thought I would say my hellos and ask a few questions, since quite honestly, I did little to no research prior to setting up my tank, and likely got a bit ahead of myself. My roomate and myself both have had experience with tropicals with our parents as kids, but this is our first go at our own tank so we were a bit overconfident going into this.

Currently we have a single 20 gal tank, filter, and heater all of unknown origins (hand-me-downs from the 'rents). We didn't cycle prior to set up(poor research) and are likely a bit overstocked(over zealous newbs). Currently stocked with 6 Card Tetras, 6 Zebra Daino(4 are actually Glofish, LFS said that they should all school together), and 3 Angelfish. The Cards and the Angels have been in the tank for about 2 weeks now, as well as 1 of the Glofish(My GF needed that pink fish). The remaining 5 Zebras/Glofish for about 2 days. We didn't realize that the Glofish was a schooling fish(they weren't schooling at the LFS), so we had to go pick him up some mates as he was terrorizing the Tetras and even getting aggressive with the Angels, which was causing the Angels to get agressive with eachother.

We also decided after we got the orginal fish that we wanted to plant the tank(again, poor planning) so that we had a more ecologically complete set up; we are really trying to avoid chemical use in ecosystem management. We planted it 2 days ago. We also figured it would make sence to pick up the Dainos when we planted because it was going to change around the tank and we needed that Glofish to settle down asap despite ammonia issues.

Our solution to the present ammonia issues has been to do 50-70% water changes every 2-3 days until the cycle levels out and add plenty of StressCoat and Cycle to help speed the process and keep the fish healthy. Which seems to be working, as the fish seem to be happy and active and have a beautiful sheen to their scales, with no issues of gasping fish on the surface. Found out our water test kit was expired(or something?, another hand me down) and wasn't giving accurate numbers. Luckily, the LFS has been helpful in testing our water for us(how we duscovered the problem with our testers). According to the LFS though, the ammoina has been high, though not dangerous, and the PH is good, though I dont have the actual numbers. Another project on todays to do list is new testers, so I will be able to provide numbers here in a later reply.

We also picked up 2 Gold Algae Eaters with the Dainos 2 days ago, in an attempt to combat algae before it was a problem. Both were found dead in the tank this morning. Cause unknown, though I suspect they were unhealthy at purchase(didn't get them from the regular LFS, had to go to Petco) since the other fish in the tank seem to be doing fine and we did a 75%+ water change before we got the GAE, so I highly doubt it was because of bad water conditions. Could also simply have been a case of getting cleaners too early. Like I said unknown. Either way its got me motivated enough to pick up the testers today so I can get exact numbers to better investigate the cause.

Below are some links to images of the tank. I have no idea if it consitutes "heavily" planted or not. Plus to be honest I just wanted to show it off a bit, we are pretty proud of it in its "finished" state. Not really looking to add anything to that tank outside of a small cleaning crew, not Pleco.

Any thoughts, advice, or concerns would be welcome. I'm also curious if this constitutes heavily planted, and need some advice on what to get in terms of cleaners. Also some possible causes of death for the GAE would be great as well. Seems I'm a bit more green at this than I first wanted to admit when we got the tank and I would love the input for those who have been there.

]Full Tank ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.)
]From Above ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.)
]Plants ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.)
]Tetras ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.)
]Angels ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.)

[smaug]

Alrighty,you have already admitted most of your sins so you are forgiven,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,however.The angels gotta go back,they are small now but in a few short months [if they live]they will have outgrown the tank.Angels belong only in 40 gal on up set ups.Next,no,you are not even in the beginning stages of heavily planted and very likely all the stress coat you are having to add will seriously hurt the plants.Next,any amount of ammonia is a problem,especially with angels,although you do have it "locked up" with stress coat.The gold algae eaters are actually chinese algae eaters and are generally less hardy then the std cae.Its just as good because cae get too big and active for a 20 gal.Later down the road after you are totally cycled get oto cats or a bn plec for algae control.Im sure I missed something but I know my brethern will catch what I didnt.

[robflanker]

I concur with Smaug on the Angels. They have to go ASAP. The smallest you can have 1 angel is a 30g set-up. Three in a 20g is way overstocked.

They are also poor cycling fish, if you remove the angels the rest of the fish ought to be better suited to a fish-in cycle

[bushwhacker]

this is not a heavily planted tank, angels need something bigger you can keep em in a 55 tho thats what this is
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[Openeye]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I'm back from getting the actual test kit and have tested the water. pH was 6.0 in the tank, 7.2 out of the tap, so something is dropping the pH in my tank. I'll have to look into that. Nitrites and Nitrates both zero, but the Ammonia was at 2 ppm. So I'm guessing I'm still pretty early in the cycling process. Did a 75% water change. Was going to do it tommarrow anyways.

On the Angelfish. We were aware of the growth situation. My roomate's mother has a 55 gal and 3 more 20 gals sitting around from when she use to breed Angels. Now that her kids are both in college, she is thinking of getting back into it, and they may become the first additions to the cause. Else we have the room and will be going to set up the 55, which they would be the "feature" fish of. Its basically just waiting on the final word to find out who is going to use the tank. Else we may just go out and pick up our own 55 to put them in, even if she decides to keep that other tank, as they are extremely interactive and we have grown quite attached. This was one of the few things we had at least put some thought into before the purchase.

I am curious how long I have before they get to large for the tank though. They are a little less than an inch long at present(mouth to base of tail). I'm planning on taking them out and get them into a new tank around 4 inches. Perhaps sooner if you suggest or their temperment requires. I want to get the next tank set up properly and fully cycled prior to moving the fish in and it would be nice to know what sort of timeframe I have to work with.

[Sharon]

I think your biggest problem is going to be cycling that tank with that many fish. A reading of 2ppm for the Ammonia is not good! If it were me, I'd get the big tank now and be done with it...the fish will be better off in a cycling 55gal, than in a cycling 20gal., as the water quality will be easier to control....

[Z Fish Man]

As for the plants, I can't tell what they all are, but you might want to look into lighting and nutrient requirements for them as you don't have plant substrate. Some plants are much easier to maintain than others.

[Openeye]

As for the plants, I can't tell what they all are, but you might want to look into lighting and nutrient requirements for them as you don't have plant substrate. Some plants are much easier to maintain than others.

Just got a second light bar and I put root stick feeders in when I planted the plants. I am already seeing root growth in the gravel, but a bit of wilting in a few leaves. Keeping an eye on it. If they start to brown and die they will be quickly removed.

I'm now testing the ammonia every 12 hours. No gain in the last 12 hours, holding steady at 2 ppm. Trying slow the water changes to promote the bacteria growth. Fish seem to remain happy and healthy.

Got a line on that 55, but still waiting filter and heater that can handle the tank. Seems funding is running out to make that a reality until next week at the earliest.

[Northernguy]

Welcome to the Fabulous AC!
I do reccomend you read the free E-book on the left and get a better idea of aquariums actually work!
There is also a section on cycling,read the cycling with fish thread.
You can back your water changes up to 50%.75 is a little drastic.

[Oscar_freak12321]

Welcome to the forum! Well, I would put in my two cents, but it looks like it's all been covered...welcome!

[Openeye]

Well the 55 had a hairline scratch in its side when we pulled it from storage. Set it up in the garage and filled it with water to test it. Turned out the hairline scratch was a hairline crack and it ended in a spectacular mess. But at least careful inspection and precautionary fillings kept it in the garage rather than the living room. Got another tank lined up, just have a few questions need answers again.

How often does the filter need to turnover the water? I think I read somewhere that the filter/pump needs to move 4x the water volume per hour, but I cant find it back to verify.

I've got a simular question with the heater elements. How many watts per gallon? Again I thought I read around 3-5 watts per gallon, but it was in the same article and I cant seem to locate it again.

Back to the current tank situation, finally starting to see some nitrates in the tank. So it seems the bacteria are there now, just need to grow the colonies. Did a 50% water change and trimmed the plants. Ammonia levels aren't building up nearly as fast as before, and the nitrite levels haven't gotten too high yet. I'm hoping I'm through the worst of it, but I'm still testing the water every 12 hours, and am scedualing 50% water changes every 2-3 days until the buildups slow down significantly and the tank is cycled.

[Little Embers]

How often does the filter need to turnover the water? I think I read somewhere that the filter/pump needs to move 4x the water volume per hour, but I cant find it back to verify.
That is correct! at least 4xph...the more times the better.

This is an interesting heating quide:
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Sounds like the cycling is on the right track.:ssmile: