Future Tank Questions

[thecoolguy]

hi guys, as some of you may know, i am in china and will be returning home to the states later this year, when i plan on setting up my now second, complete tank - and i have questions! (as well as plan on using this awesome forum when the time comes....)

my plan:

55-75 gal
sand/gravel bottom
powerhead with top filter + canister filter if needed (not sure....) --- or a cabinet type unit (most expensive i think?)
whatever the required heater would be
appropriate floure. lighting
do i need UV lighting?
some serious aquascaping (mostly wood - not many, if not any plants)

the inhabitants:
plecs of course......as well as some midwater dwellers (undecided)


what am i looking at as far as cost goes? ill write down what i think seems to be the going rate, and please, OH PLEASE, feel free to correct my ignorance....

tank: $100-250 (depending on new vs used) nothing too fancy, just your generic glass rectangular (but perhaps with a wood or black finish w/ stand)
pump/filtration: 70-150 depending on how much filtration i want
aquascaping: with a budget of 150-250, is that enough?
heater: 30-50 (is 1 heater enough?)
lighting: 20-40 (i am handy so making some custom lighting shouldn't be hard)

and the all important monthly electric bill.....how much are you guys paying for a 24/7 55/75gal setup?

sorry if this is just rambling to some....but given i know absolutely no one who is in to fish in china.....

thanks for the help in advance.....i truly appreciate it....

[Lady Hobbs]

WOW. You are really doing some good thinking and planning. The planning ahead is my worse downfall. I like to just "barrel" in. LOL

I honestly doubt that your electric bill would be a heck of a lot higher on a 200 verus a 100 gallon tank. Probably not what it costs me a month to mess with 4 much smaller tanks and have 4 of everything running. My bill went up $20 a month but I also don't have plant lights yet, either. I also have about 20 cords plugged in!

Glass tanks can only be purchased online and delivered from one place that I know of and that's called Class Cages. Believe me, it costs more for delivery than it does for the whole set up! So get a couple guys to give you a hand and go pick it up. Acyrlic can be send but again, way too expensive to ship and the tanks costs a fortune!

I priced a tank just this week.....129.95 for a 75 gallon. That's the bare bones. Of course PetSmart is $40 more for the same tank so it pays to shop around, get a good price on one and plan to pick it up. You may also run into a steal and get one used but I would make sure I saw it before it was drained or have some good quarantee that it will hold water. A lot of people get them from Craigs list.....

Some of the used you find is heart-wrenching the prices are so good. My son was recently working at a doctors office and there was an 1800 saltwater (complete) for a thousand.

My break down "guess" on a 100 gallon tank would be:

Tank $170
Glass Hood 60
Canister 160
Power filter 45
Substract 100 Play sand at Home Depot ($7)
Light strips 300 (you can make or buy a canopy and put shop lights inside for less)
UV is for saltwater coral tanks I believe
C02 150

Find your own driftwood and rocks 0

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Personally, I would prefer 2-100 gallons verus the larger. You could have one fresh and one saltwater, or one community and one cichlid. Two 90's even as they are only 48 inch long if space is a factor......and isn't it always. But double the tanks = double the money.

I would advise not to plant a sand tank only due to what I've thus far read. It's hard to hold the plants down in sand since it's lighter. Plants with heavy roots need about 4 inches of substract and that's too much for sand or you will get air pockets.

I just set a tank up to sand this week but have a concoction of sand and Laterite mixed up for planting another tank. I don't know how it will do so will let you know in a week or so. :) For a planted tank, I should have gone with Flourite alone or used Laterite and gravel mixed. (It's a clay substract.)

Enough from me! Ask a question and get a book. LOL

[thecoolguy]

hobbs, thanks for the info! so, i have been doing some further research and have some questions for you/others....

1) i only want a 75gal tank (not 100gal or 200gal) - sorry for the confusion

2) glass tanks cannot be purchased at fish stores? (not petsmart, private mom-pop place)

3) i am in debate on bio-wheel filter vs. fluval canister external - what do you guys think? (seems like good filtration for a 75gal wouldn't run more than 50-100 bucks)

4) what is "CO2" and why does it cost so much?

5) what is the best "ground" material? i do not want any live plants, just a nice looking gravel bottom

6) lights cost $300! ????? is it not enough to buy the hardware (home depot style) and just a couple flourescent bulbs? shouldn't cost more than 50-60 bucks? what is wrong with my plan here.....obviously something if people are paying 300 for lights!

7) "glass hood" --- what exactly is the "hood" portion of the tank? i thought that the top would be open, and i would simply build/buy something to place on top so that the lights would have a home?

sorry for the questions - but too many horror stories of people doing things wrong the first time - and i am a believer in going all the way, and doing it right the first time....(second time i guess)

[Lady Hobbs]

hobbs, thanks for the info! so, i have been doing some further research and have some questions for you/others....

1) i only want a 75gal tank (not 100gal or 200gal) - sorry for the confusion
OK. That makes a difference. The quote I got for 129.95 was from a small pet shop that will order one for me. Two blocks from PetSmart that cost $40 more, too.

2) glass tanks cannot be purchased at fish stores? (not petsmart, private mom-pop place)
Glass tops can actually be purchased online. Those they ship but also sold at small and larger LPS shops. You could also just buy the hood and light sets for a 75 gallon instead of getting the lights and the glass hood. This will get you started and you can change at a later date if you wish.

3) i am in debate on bio-wheel filter vs. fluval canister external - what do you guys think? (seems like good filtration for a 75gal wouldn't run more than 50-100 bucks)
A canister for a 75 can be bought for not much more than $100-125. Good sales always online for them. And a bio-wheel should also be used for the other side of the tank. Or at least, some secondary filter whether sponge or internal filter.

4) what is "CO2" and why does it cost so much?
I thought you said you wanted a planted tank? Sorry. Not needed if not planted.

5) what is the best "ground" material? i do not want any live plants, just a nice looking gravel bottom
The River Rock is very attractive and certainly more realistic than my blue gravel!! It will cost about $90 for any kind of gravel you use unless you go with the sand. If you should go with cichlids, they need their own type of gravel that keeps the pH up for them. Crushed coral, that sort of stuff.

6) lights cost $300! ????? is it not enough to buy the hardware (home depot style) and just a couple fluorescent bulbs? shouldn't cost more than 50-60 bucks? what is wrong with my plan here.....obviously something if people are paying 300 for lights!
Since you don't want a planted tank, you can get regular hood lights for not too much. People are paying big bucks and much more than $300 for very good lighting for saltwater tanks (coral need it) as well as large planted tanks. The fluorescent lights are not adequate for planted tanks. Planted tanks need about 2 WATTS per gallon and the fluorescents are much, much less in wattage.......like 30 WATTS.

7) "glass hood" --- what exactly is the "hood" portion of the tank? i thought that the top would be open, and i would simply build/buy something to place on top so that the lights would have a home?
You have to have a hood of some sort to prevent fish from jumping out, stuff from getting dropped in, evaporating of the water and something to keep the water away from the lights.

sorry for the questions - but too many horror stories of people doing things wrong the first time - and i am a believer in going all the way, and doing it right the first time....(second time i guess)
Sorry if I lead you on the wrong path but my impression was you were getting a larger tank and planting it. Makes a big difference here. WHAT WAS I READING!!!!!!!!!


You know, if you are just starting out you can buy a 55 gallon kit that contains everything from Walmarts for $158. Power filter, hood, lights, tank, thermostat, heater and nets! You will have to add another filter of some sort be it a canister or another HOTB filter.

[cocoa_pleco]

wow, my wal-marts 30g sets are 150 and 55g's are 250. They also had 200g's for a while for 300$.

Lights are very expensive. My 10g light was 60$ and the saltwater lightbulb for anenomes was another 20$.

[thecoolguy]

ok, so to clear some things up, here is where i stand on the setup

1) i only want a 75gal tank (not 100gal or 200gal) - not a 55gal or smaller

2) glass tanks cannot be purchased at fish stores? (not petsmart, private mom-pop place)

3) i am in debate on bio-wheel filter vs. fluval canister external - what do you guys think? (seems like good filtration for a 75gal wouldn't run more than 50-100 bucks)

4) what is "CO2" and why does it cost so much? -- i WILL NOT have live plants because i see no need for them as food or decoration or filtration - so do i even need to be thinking about this?

5) what is the best "ground" material? i do not want any live plants, just a nice looking gravel bottom

6) lights cost $300! ????? is it not enough to buy the hardware (home depot style) and just a couple flourescent bulbs? shouldn't cost more than 50-60 bucks? what is wrong with my plan here.....obviously something if people are paying 300 for lights! --- given there is NO live plant material - do i need anything as far as 40-60 dollar bulbs? won't regular cheap flourescent bulbs do?

7) "glass hood" --- what exactly is the "hood" portion of the tank? i thought that the top would be open, and i would simply build/buy something to place on top so that the lights would have a home?

[thecoolguy]

ok - so despite the lack of input, i have continued to move on towards putting together something respectable.....what is your guy's input?

tank: 75gal rectangular tall, glass made

filter: rena xp3 canister filter (1 seems to have enough gph to keep things clean)

heater: whatever i need

lighting: still not sure why people spend soo much here? perhaps someone could help me out a tad with some clarification

misc: gravel bottom, a lot of drift and bog wood, rocks (nice ones)

remaining questions:

1) lights! --- from what i have read, lighting is no big deal unless you want to have live plants in the tank, is that correct?

2) live plants have some benefit, but are in no way necessary for a thriving non-breeding tank?

3) CO2 adding --- not necessary if there are no plants in the tank?

-- i plan on stocking with:

1-3 plecos (non-common breed) -- (4-8")
4-8 schooling fish (2-3")
2-4 larger model fish (large meaning full growth @ 5-7")

i doubt this would constitute over-stocking...

i will be going the bio-spira + ammonia route to cycling....and i think that is it!

total planned cost:

70-100 tank
100-130 filter
50 heater
50 gravel
100 wood/rocks
40 bio-spira
60 lighting (non-special bulbs)
_____

$500-600 for a fully stocked 75gal tank, sound about right?

please, any input would be greatly appreciated

[Incredulous_Ed]

Okay, for the lighting, you can just get two shop light hoods at your local hardware store that fit nicely on a 55 gallon for about 20 dollars. You can buy a couple of flouescent light for about 5 bucks each.

I think a good rule of thumb for estemating the cost of an aquarium setup is to take how many gallons the tank will hold and multiply by 10. So I would think that your steup would cost about $750, if not more.

CO2 is not rerquired in your tank, so don't worry about it. The only thing it does is help plants grow but many plants do well with out it.
You can have a healthy tank witout live plants, and the plecos will probably eat them anyway.

[Chrona]

1) i only want a 75gal tank (not 100gal or 200gal) - not a 55gal or smaller

2) glass tanks cannot be purchased at fish stores? (not petsmart, private mom-pop place)

3) i am in debate on bio-wheel filter vs. fluval canister external - what do you guys think? (seems like good filtration for a 75gal wouldn't run more than 50-100 bucks)

4) what is "CO2" and why does it cost so much? -- i WILL NOT have live plants because i see no need for them as food or decoration or filtration - so do i even need to be thinking about this?

5) what is the best "ground" material? i do not want any live plants, just a nice looking gravel bottom

6) lights cost $300! ????? is it not enough to buy the hardware (home depot style) and just a couple flourescent bulbs? shouldn't cost more than 50-60 bucks? what is wrong with my plan here.....obviously something if people are paying 300 for lights! --- given there is NO live plant material - do i need anything as far as 40-60 dollar bulbs? won't regular cheap flourescent bulbs do?

7) "glass hood" --- what exactly is the "hood" portion of the tank? i thought that the top would be open, and i would simply build/buy something to place on top so that the lights would have a home?

2) Mom and pop stores will sell glass tanks. In fact, most of them only sell glass tanks.

3) Go canister for a 75g tank. You can get a secondary filter like a Penguin or an Emperor if you want

4) CO2 = carbon dioxide. If you don't have live plants, then you don't need/want it

5) I would say any natural color gravel, maybe some rough sand.

6) With no plants, a cheap DIY fixture will work fine

7) You can easily purchase a piece of plexiglass and cut it to size to fit over your tank. if you decide to build a whole hood assembly, then you don't really need this. It helps with evaporation though

55-75 gal
sand/gravel bottom
powerhead with top filter + canister filter if needed (not sure....) --- or a cabinet type unit (most expensive i think?)
whatever the required heater would be
appropriate floure. lighting
do i need UV lighting?
some serious aquascaping (mostly wood - not many, if not any plants)

the inhabitants:
plecs of course......as well as some midwater dwellers (undecided)

tank: $100-250 (depending on new vs used) nothing too fancy, just your generic glass rectangular (but perhaps with a wood or black finish w/ stand)
pump/filtration: 70-150 depending on how much filtration i want
aquascaping: with a budget of 150-250, is that enough?
heater: 30-50 (is 1 heater enough?)
lighting: 20-40 (i am handy so making some custom lighting shouldn't be hard)

and the all important monthly electric bill.....how much are you guys paying for a 24/7 55/75gal setup?

UV light is not required, but it helps a lot against parasites, unwanted waterborne bacteria, and algae blooms.

For the electric bill, think of it this way. With a pretty much unplanted tank, 1 watt per gallon of lighting will be fine, so you are looking at about 75 watts (I'm assuming a 75g for all of this) You will want about 5 watts/gallon of heating, so figure 350 watts for heating. Factor in the power consumption of powerheads/filters, a 25w UV sterilizer, and you are looking at about 450-500 watts. I would say that the heater will be on roughly 1/4 the time (I have no basis for this, just using it for a rough estimate, since it depends on house temp, efficiency, etc), or an average of 90 watts of consumption over 24 hours, and the lights on for 12 hours, or an average of 35 watts of consumption. The filter, powerheads, and UV we will assume are constantly on, so assume 50 watts for all. So thus, you have an average consumption rate of about 175 watts. This equates to about 4200 watts-hours a day or 4.2 kWh / day. The average cost of electricity is about 10 cents per kWh, so that means your setup will cost about 42 cents per day, or about 12-13 bucks a month.

[thecoolguy]

Chrona -

thanks! your answers have helped me a lot! especially in regards to the lighting....

but unfortunately...you bring up another question which i much research....

UV sterilizer.....so i don't need UV lights, but i need one of these hu....shoot....

haha --- thanks again guys - i am well on my way to have a tank
that will thrive!

ill post pics in september....

[Chrona]

Most people just recommend you turn on UV lights to clear up algae blooms/kill parasites, since it supposedly kills whatever beneficial bacteria is floating in the water, but then again, the vast majority is in the gravel and the filter....so I think either side is valid.