Should I get a "cleaning crew"?

[Fraoch]

It appears I'm just not keeping up with gravel cleaning, see here (http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=43065). It's much better now, but it would be better if I had a "cleaning crew" to stay on top of things. Deep cleaning the entire gravel surface area while doing water changes may not be feasible even with large 50% water changes, it may build up again.

Would it help if I got a "cleaning crew"? Forum member Shadowisper talks about an otto here (http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showpost.php?p=507991&postcount=12) and they seem like the perfect size as I only have a 10 gallon tank, plus they would make good tankmates for my guppies. I probably should only get two at most, maybe even only one (I have 7 guppies). However the link here (http://www.tropicalfishandaquariums.com/Catfish/Otto.asp) indicates they eat only soft algae and are fairly sensitive. I do have algae cropping up now, but what I'm really looking for is a scavenger that can help clean the gravel.

[ko4000]

The thing about "cleaning" fish is that they only clean the left over food and algae mostly. Your fishes waste will still accumilate so regular gravel vac'ing will still be necessary.
The only cleaning type fish I keep are Bristle nose and rubber lip plecos. They take care of the algae and I take care of the muck that builds up in the gravel/sand with my gravel vac.

[Northernguy]

I do like to keep some dirt in my gravel.It does help to keep your cycle stable.
You can over clean a tank.I vacuum the top of my gravel twice a week but I only deep clean 1/2 the gravel once a week.
The otos may pic on the guppies and I don't think your tank is big enough for two.

[Fraoch]

I do like to keep some dirt in my gravel.It does help to keep your cycle stable.
You can over clean a tank.I vacuum the top of my gravel twice a week but I only deep clean 1/2 the gravel once a week.

Oh oh, I hope I haven't over-cleaned the gravel, it's almost completely clean now.

Unfortunately I also played around with the filter last night...

[robflanker]

You might have kicked off a minicyle - when did you last check the parameters?

[Fraoch]

You might have kicked off a minicyle - when did you last check the parameters?

I will check them tonight. I last checked them two days ago because things started happening in the tank (two fish got fin rot, one bloated and one died).

[jaysee]

Ghost shrimp are a good investment. They'll die off over time and will be eaten, but they do a great job cleaning the gravel and are cool to look at. Crayfish will also keep the substrate clean, but you may find some torn and tattered fins. Also cory cats (pygmy for a 10G) suck up the morsels of food in the gravel.

[Fraoch]

Ghost shrimp are a good investment. They'll die off over time and will be eaten, but they do a great job cleaning the gravel and are cool to look at. Crayfish will also keep the substrate clean, but you may find some torn and tattered fins. Also cory cats (pygmy for a 10G) suck up the morsels of food in the gravel.

I was going to ask about shrimp, I understand they were scavengers and eat anything and everything. The only questions I have about them:

- how many for a 10 gallon?

- are they compatible with guppies?

[troy]

You could have a dozen in a 10g and they are compatible with guppies but they will eat fry sometimes.

[Fraoch]

You could have a dozen in a 10g and they are compatible with guppies but they will eat fry sometimes.

Cool, there won't be any fry in there, the guppies are all males.:ssmile:

I won't put in all that many as I wouldn't want them to starve, I just would want them to stay on top of the debris.

I'm off to research ghost shrimp then!

[Jaster]

I also have 10 gallon guppy tank with 7 guppys. I have a bristlenose pleco in there to do the dirty work. He does a great job picking up after the slobs. He doesn't bother the guppys at all and they don't bother him.
I use BNs in all 3 of my tanks. They are a great little fish.

[Fraoch]

Thanks for the fish suggestions. They would be interesting little guys, the shrimp look cool but a little alien. However from what I understand the fish all go for algae. I need something that'll eat debris in the gravel.

But I am getting algae and some of it is hard to clean so I might get one of each! I'll have to find out if I won't starve any of these new critters though.

[robflanker]

I think someone told me the pygmy corys pick up some of the junk food that falls. Depending on your current stocking, you might be able to add 6 pygmy corys and a BN to cover both problems.
Pair them with a upgraded filter and you should be all set.

Oh and http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4136+18352&pcatid=18352 is what I was referring to. Just cut to fit.

[jaysee]

They would be interesting little guys, the shrimp look cool but a little alien.... I need something that'll eat debris in the gravel.

I think they are what you're looking for. They also won't reproduce and take over the tank. I feed mine small cichlid pellets once or twice a week to supplement, but the population in your tank will reach an equillibrium - if you put 20 in your 10G and let them fend for themselves, you will probably retain 6-8 (more depending on how much you overfeed) over a 2 month period. The numbers will dwindle down no matter what you do, since there is a tendancy for them to die when molting. They are also VERY volnerable after molting and fish that normally leave them alone will gobble them up if given the chance. If you provide enough cover they'll live for a few months, but they will have to be restocked at regular intervals.

[troy]

Bristlenoses's get way to big for a 10g.

[Jaster]

I thought that BNs only grew to about 3 inches or so? That would be too big?

[ko4000]

My LFS has a full grown BN in their show tank. He is well over 3", closer to 5" I would say.

[Jaster]

well hmmm... someone will be moving to the main tank if he gets big

[Fraoch]

Yesterday was the first time I've been to a LFS since I started this thread so I took a good look around for these guys.

First off, this was just for reference purposes. This was the first time I've ever been to this LFS and the fish did NOT look good (separate thread on that later). They were having an inventory reduction sale storewide, everything was 20% off but no returns or refunds. No way am I getting fish from that store but I may pick up a filter tomorrow.:ssmile:

Anyway, they didn't have ghost shrimp. They did have "algae eaters", the young girl didn't know whether they were CAE or SAE. They are probably too big for a 10 gallon. These guys were small (not very wide) but already about 4-5" long. I didn't like their behaviour, they seemed extremely skittish. The slightest movement from me in front of their tank caused them to scatter wildly. This could be that they had no cover there though. I did see them latching onto the tank sides before we left.

No ghost shrimps, but there were two types of cories. There were albino cories and "peppered" cories. Both were about the same size, about as long as my guppies but much thicker. I didn't like the albino colouring but the peppered cories seemed very cute! They were quite active swimmers and were always moving around.

Unfortunately my googling indicates they need a 20 gallon tank and should be in schools of 5 or more. They won't work for my 10, I'd expect - right?

I was thinking of 4-6 ghost shrimp and 2 corys. Sound right?

Now to find pygmy corys. There's only one LFS I trust with fish and they have a huge selection, I hope to find them there.

[robflanker]

Yah the only corys you can have in a 10g longterm is pygmy, and you want 5-6.

I was told you could have 6 panda corys in the short-term but they'd need to be in a bigger tank long-run

[Fraoch]

Yah the only corys you can have in a 10g longterm is pygmy, and you want 5-6.

I really hope I can find pygmy corys, I read up on albino corys too and they're smaller than peppered corys but still need a tank larger than 10 gallons from what I've read.:scry:

[robflanker]

I really hope I can find pygmy corys, I read up on albino corys too and they're smaller than peppered corys but still need a tank larger than 10 gallons from what I've read.:scry:

I found a decent LFS around here that had them. Some of the better places will order them too.

Or you can try aquabid. I was talking to someone else about pygmy corys and they were going to order on aquabid too. let me try and think who it was. If its a fellow Canadian, you might be to get a bigger order but save on shipping

[jaysee]

I was talking about pygmy corys with someone, and think it might have been you, but I am not a Canadian. I'm going to order them from aquabid since my LFS can't get them.

[Fraoch]

Tonight is the night for a decision! I'm going to the LFS.

I've looked around and fallen in love with corys, they're very cute little guys! Presuming I can find pygmy corys, how many for a 10 gallon? WT mentioned in another thread they like to be in groups of 6+, but that seems like a lot for a 10 gallon.

I'd love to find pygmys, but they don't seem to be very common here. However, albino corys are widely available and from all accounts remain quite small. Internet resources vary, many state that a 10 gallon is just a little bit too small for albino corys, others say it's fine, and the local PetSmart (if this is any indication) indicates "tank size: 10+ gallons", not so for the other corys.

Should I substitute 6 albino corys for the pygmies or should I not bother? Less than 6?

I'd also like some ghost shrimp, I was thinking 6.

And finally another guppy died of a long illness, we're down to 6. I'd like to add another 2, but is this too much? The tank would then have:

8 guppies
6 pygmy/albino corys
6 ghost shrimp

Too much?

With 8 guppies, the bio-load wasn't excessive - a bit less than 20 ppm of nitrates were produced each week, but that's with all that debris rotting in the gravel. My filtration improvements and more careful cleaning plus the ghost shrimp should help with that.

[robflanker]

It was with me Jaysee.

fraoch - i think albino get bigger than 2.5inches not sure tho, i was told if i couldnt get dwarf than panda was the next best bet

[rich311k]

I think that will be fine in your tank.

[jaysee]

The albinos and bronze corys are the same fish, and grow MUCH larger than the pygmies. Not only are they more than twice as long, they also have at least twice the girth. I think a ten is too small for a group of non-pygmy corys - there's just not enough floor space. I plan to put 8 in my 10G.

I heard that too - about the pandas being the next best.

[rich311k]

I missed the albino part. Pgmys yes albinos no. I have albinos and they get well over two inches.

[Fraoch]

OK, pygmys preferred, pandas maybe...

Thanks guys!

Also looking back at this thread and looking on the Internet it's not entirely clear - corys will eat algae, right? I've got a fair amount of it waiting for them.:ssmile:

[rich311k]

They will not eat algae. they are mostly lillte carnivores. They will nibble at algae wafers though. Your guppys will eat hair alage.

[Fraoch]

They will not eat algae. they are mostly lillte carnivores. They will nibble at algae wafers though. Your guppys will eat hair alage.

Hmm, I guess there's nothing that will eat algae that's suitable for a 10 gallon then? I did see a rubber lip pleco in PetSmart today but even they indicated "55+ gallons".

The guppies nip and nibble at the green algae I'm getting but it's growing well beyond their means to control. My Mag-Float works quite well on the glass but I'm getting some below the gravel and on the decorations.

[robflanker]

Getting real plants would help compete with the algae for nutrients

[Fraoch]

Maybe I'll pick up some java moss at Big Al's tonight then?

I understand it doesn't even have roots and will grow in most light conditions?

[robflanker]

Yah just rubber band it to some rocks or driftwood for two weeks and you'll be fine. Your shrimp will hide in it too. Could be a good solution to the algae problem and your corys will hide in it too

did you end up ordering a filter?

[Fraoch]

did you end up ordering a filter?

Unfortunately I've had some very bad experiences ordering from the U.S. I didn't want to get into detail, it'll just sound like I'm whining.:ssmile:

Thanks for the help and no offense but I'll be getting one locally tonight.

[robflanker]

pfftt bloody canadians :hmm3grin2orange: see if I help you again

check out marty's DIY thread on java moss creations for ideas incidentally

[Fraoch]

pfftt bloody canadians :hmm3grin2orange: see if I help you again

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!:scry: :scry:

<bawl>


check out marty's DIY thread on java moss creations for ideas incidentally

Thanks, will do, sounds suspiciously like help though?:sconfused:

[robflanker]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!:scry: :scry:

<bawl>



Thanks, will do, sounds suspiciously like help though?:sconfused:

Staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrtttttttttttttiiii nnnng NOW

[jaysee]

Froach - what about a UV sterilizer? Also, amano shrimp eat algae and will not outgrow a 10G.

[Fraoch]

Froach - what about a UV sterilizer?

Good idea but the algae isn't severe enough to warrant spending that much. It's just that it's accumulating on the decorations at this point - no scraping that off, they'll have to be removed and cleaned individually.


Also, amano shrimp eat algae and will not outgrow a 10G.

Hmm, how many for a 10 gallon?

Could the corys take care of the gravel debris and the amano shrimp take care of the algae then?

[jaysee]

I think that sounds good - pygmy corys and amanos.

I just bought a UV sterlizer from petsmart for $40. It's a power head with a UV bulb. I know it's not top of the line, but for that money if it works a little I'm happy. I primarily got it for the prevention of algae (not a problem now but don't want it to develop now that winter is over) and to kill pathogens.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750628

[Fraoch]

I think that sounds good - pygmy corys and amanos.

One positive vote then, thanks jaysee!


I just bought a UV sterlizer from petsmart for $40. It's a power head with a UV bulb. I know it's not top of the line, but for that money if it works a little I'm happy. I primarily got it for the prevention of algae (not a problem now but don't want it to develop now that winter is over) and to kill pathogens.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750628

Looks very cool and I'm thinking it would also help with fin rot, ich and bacterial infections.

Around here it'd be $60 CDN or more, that's if it's available here - it might not be if it doesn't have CSA electrical certification.

I was looking at Big Al's UV sterilizers, they start at $99.99.

[jaysee]

I thought I saw a couple in the $70 range from big als. I sure did!

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18545/si1380475/cl0/aquamedicuvsterilizer5watt

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18545/si3827086/cl0/jbjsubmariner5wattuvsterilizer

I like the second one, which was my second choice behind the one I got.

[robflanker]

$70 costs more than the 10g and all its various accessories, lol

[jaysee]

$70 costs more than the 10g and all its various accessories, lol

True, but to me it's a small price to pay to prevent algae problems and potetial pathogens.

[robflanker]

Planted will help with the moss too but won't do anything for pathogens.

If i was concerned about it in a bigger tank than I would or 10g was the biggest I was ever going to do - id do it too. But 10g is just a stepping stone for me at the moment so I dont want to dump a lot of cash into stuff that might not transfer to bigger tanks well.

[Fraoch]

I thought I saw a couple in the $70 range from big als. I sure did!

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18545/si1380475/cl0/aquamedicuvsterilizer5watt

That's the one available for $99.99 here and the cheapest one they have.


http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18545/si3827086/cl0/jbjsubmariner5wattuvsterilizer

This one is $149.99 in this country.:help:

[jaysee]

Oh man, why didn't I think of this earlier. What about an oto? They don't school, MAX out at 2" and eat algae.

I just came back from petsmart with 3 albino corys, 5 khuli loaches and 3 MTS (for an experiment).

[Fraoch]

Oh man, why didn't I think of this earlier. What about an oto? They don't school, MAX out at 2" and eat algae.

I was thinking that but NG warned me against it:


The otos may pic on the guppies and I don't think your tank is big enough for two.

And I did see very tiny otos at Big Al's yesterday.

But I backed down from getting corys. There weren't any pygmy corys as I suspected but there were panda corys. They looked very cute and looked pretty good in the tank, it was neat to see them all hunkered down on the gravel with their dark caudal fins up, it was almost hard to spot them and when you did they looked like a weird bumpy bottom. Others were rooting in the gravel and hopping around like corys do.

We wrote them on the list, 6 panda corys, along with 2 guppies. Good thing the guy at Big Al's was on the ball, he asked me how large of a tank I had and when I replied "10 gallon", he said introducing 8 fish all at once would cause a cycle. He was right, of course, so we just got the two guppies. Not sure why I didn't think of that earlier.

I did get a better filter, so we'll see if that and more thorough gravel cleaning will help. I would still like corys but I'm hesitant about getting 6 all at once.

[Zilla]

As if this thread isn't confusing enough... :hmm3grin2orange:

I'm with Jaysee on this. A clean up crew is a good thing to have in any tank, but if algae is making you crazy, before investing in a UV light which has potential of doing more harm than good ( it kills good and bad pathogens) how about really looking into the "root" of the algae problem first?

Have you tested your water for phosphates? Along with your tank water, your tap water or whatever you use to fill the tank with should be tested as well. If if you find phosphates in either, it's a easy fix.

You mentioned in another thread that you were having issues with not cleaning the tank's gravel enough. The residual "gunk" could be feeding the hair algae. Once that is taken care of, the algae should go away as it won't have a food source unless you overfeed your fish. Combine that with weekly water changes and you should be fine unless you're leaving the light on for too long and or the tank is getting direct sunlight.

Look into the food you're presently feeding.

I've read all the debates around here regarding what food is best, but if your fish food contains alot of fillers, research the fillers and see how much gunk they are leaving or putting back into your tank either by not having the food eaten, or how much is increases the fishes stool output.

Fish food isn't much different from cat or dog food in the sense that lots of companies depend on fillers to complete their product. The end result of all these fillers is that animals poop more. This is not because the food contains quality fiber, rather it's because they are eating stuff that the digestion system and gut simply can't break down, so it just passes through.

Another way to get a handle on the food thing is to offer other things besides peas. Get a veggie clip and offer things like spinach, kale, broccoli, ect once or twice a week. You'd only need a tiny bit and it can be easily pulled out as it will be on a clip. All the trace minerals in the veggies will not only help with feeding issues as there won't be any "crumbs" but it also help your fish as the fiber found in veggies is what they need or should have.

I'm babbling, but that's what I'd do before going out and spending lots of money on things that I don't think you really need. Get a school of Cory's and really research algae eaters before you by one. I've been researching Oto's for the past 2 weeks for my 55 once it's done cycling and I doubt that I'll ever add them just because they are hard to maintain and introduce to a tank to begin with. Also, people seem to enjoy putting Chinese Algae Eaters, Siamese Algae Eaters, ect all under the same label. Buyer beware when it comes to these guys. Make sure you know exactly what you're buying before having somebody bag a fish up for you.

[Fraoch]

Very nice post, Zilla!

I have little doubt my water contains phosphates, it seems to contain everything else.:hmm3grin2orange: It's the hardest water I've ever encountered.

I wouldn't say I have a big algae problem by any means. I do a light scraping once a week or so of the tank sides, and only small patches at a time. My decorations are getting algae, but I have never cleaned them and I guess I should.

Increased filtration has definitely helped my gravel debris problem. This Saturday I found the gravel cleaner than it has been, for sure. Most of what I pulled out was from isolated areas, left over from much earlier. And the current in the tank has definitely increased - it's deposited most of the new debris directly under the filter intake. Before it was deposited on the opposite side of the filter outlet, meaning it was blown there and settled. Now it's been scoured around to the back.

I'm thinking of live plants - something easy to start like Java Moss - to compete with the algae for nitrates. Live plants have many other benefits as well. I don't know about getting a fish or invertebrate that will eat algae, I may not be producing enough, it requires its own care and supplemental feeding, and it will add to the bio-load.

I do like corys though, even if they don't really help with my debris problem, they're just so darn cute.:ssmile:

Regarding food fillers, unfortunately the foods I have give no indication of filler content or what the filler consists of. One may have lots of poor filler - Top Fin Guppy Food - another should not have much filler, Hikari guppy pellets. The Top Fin food is cheap, the Hikari definitely not.

Feeding other veggies may be worth a try but my experiments so far have failed. They didn't even touch cucumber. I've put lettuce in there, no interest. But I noticed at the LFS they did have some sort of leafy vegetable in the guppy tanks...it may be worth another try. I'm sticking with the peas once a week though, they go for that in a big way - on Saturday they couldn't get enough of them, especially one of my two new ones.

[Zilla]

Very nice post, Zilla!

I have little doubt my water contains phosphates, it seems to contain everything else.:hmm3grin2orange: It's the hardest water I've ever encountered.

I wouldn't say I have a big algae problem by any means. I do a light scraping once a week or so of the tank sides, and only small patches at a time. My decorations are getting algae, but I have never cleaned them and I guess I should.

Increased filtration has definitely helped my gravel debris problem. This Saturday I found the gravel cleaner than it has been, for sure. Most of what I pulled out was from isolated areas, left over from much earlier. And the current in the tank has definitely increased - it's deposited most of the new debris directly under the filter intake. Before it was deposited on the opposite side of the filter outlet, meaning it was blown there and settled. Now it's been scoured around to the back.

I'm thinking of live plants - something easy to start like Java Moss - to compete with the algae for nitrates. Live plants have many other benefits as well. I don't know about getting a fish or invertebrate that will eat algae, I may not be producing enough, it requires its own care and supplemental feeding, and it will add to the bio-load.

I do like corys though, even if they don't really help with my debris problem, they're just so darn cute.:ssmile:

Regarding food fillers, unfortunately the foods I have give no indication of filler content or what the filler consists of. One may have lots of poor filler - Top Fin Guppy Food - another should not have much filler, Hikari guppy pellets. The Top Fin food is cheap, the Hikari definitely not.

Feeding other veggies may be worth a try but my experiments so far have failed. They didn't even touch cucumber. I've put lettuce in there, no interest. But I noticed at the LFS they did have some sort of leafy vegetable in the guppy tanks...it may be worth another try. I'm sticking with the peas once a week though, they go for that in a big way - on Saturday they couldn't get enough of them, especially one of my two new ones.

Thanks! You'd never know that I'm about to drain my 55 and 20 gal QT tank, would you? LOL I just tested the QT tank after ignoring for a week and the nitrite level is over <1 ppm, with nitrates that are roughly 30 ppm and there's nothing in the tank except for a sponge filter and a HOB filter that is stuffed with noodles, CuriSorb and SeaGel. Meh! It just got a 50% water change, so I'll see what happens.

Anyway, peas are high in sugar which may explain why your finned friends are ignoring leafy greens. You could try a small piece of apple or something and see if they'll pick at that. If they are willing to eat that, try a small piece of sweet potato which is loaded with fiber and has more bulk than cucumber.

As for the fish food, just read the label. If you see corn bi-products and such, that could be adding to the "gunk" factor. I'm not a fan of companies that use Wheat Gluten after the disaster that occured 2 years ago with Wheat Gluten being purchased and used from China, but other companies use Soy Lecithin ( New Life uses Soy Lecithin) which is basically junk left over from a soy plant and use that as a binder instead.

Soy lecithin isn't great, but IMO is the lesser of two evils as nobody is really sure where wheat gluten that is still being used in human and pet foods is coming from. It seems those details have flown under the radar. Of course the best way around it is to not buy products that contains it.

I never would have thought that having a understanding of "people food" would apply to fish. :hmm3grin2orange: But sugar is sugar, so your fish just need to lose a bit of the sweet tooth. :c2:

[Fraoch]

Is there anything wrong with peas though? Not having teeth, I don't think they'll get cavities.:ssmile:

Anyway I have the 4 packaged foods right here:

- freeze-dried bloodworms, no filler, ingredients: 100% bloodworms.:hmm3grin2orange:

- Top Fin Guppy food, it looks like the possible filler ingredients are soy flour, wheat starch, brewer's yeast, soy lecithin, silicon dioxide (although this could be a flow agent)

- Hikari algae wafers, possible fillers: wheat flour, wheat germ meal, starch, "dried bakery products", brewers dried yeast

- Hikari guppy pellets, possible fillers: wheat flour, brewers dried yeast

So no wheat gluten or corn byproducts in anything.

Oh and I'm surprised to see that the Hikari algae wafers list garlic as an ingredient (and a fairly high content, it's on the 3rd line) - I was looking at New Life Spectrum with garlic but it's $20 around here.:ssuprised:

[Zilla]

Is there anything wrong with peas though? Not having teeth, I don't think they'll get cavities.:ssmile:

Anyway I have the 4 packaged foods right here:

- freeze-dried bloodworms, no filler, ingredients: 100% bloodworms.:hmm3grin2orange:

- Top Fin Guppy food, it looks like the possible filler ingredients are soy flour, wheat starch, brewer's yeast, soy lecithin, silicon dioxide (although this could be a flow agent)

- Hikari algae wafers, possible fillers: wheat flour, wheat germ meal, starch, "dried bakery products", brewers dried yeast

- Hikari guppy pellets, possible fillers: wheat flour, brewers dried yeast

So no wheat gluten or corn byproducts in anything.

Oh and I'm surprised to see that the Hikari algae wafers list garlic as an ingredient (and a fairly high content, it's on the 3rd line) - I was looking at New Life Spectrum with garlic but it's $20 around here.:ssuprised:

There's nothing wrong with peas, just feed them in moderation.

When you get into the flours and such, those are going to add to the gunk factor. Yeast is another sugar, so there you have it. If you want to experiment, crush up a pellet or add some flour to water and see what happens.

I just ordered New Life Sinking wafers and Surface Semi-Sinking pellets from Big Al's. I'm not entirely convinced that garlic is either good or bad for fish, so for now, I'm staying away from such products. Too much of any one thing is bad for people and animals, so I don't think any differently about fish.

[Fraoch]

There's nothing wrong with peas, just feed them in moderation.

Only once a week.


Too much of any one thing is bad for people and animals, so I don't think any differently about fish.

I agree, I try to vary their diet. Morning - guppy food (which is a mix of bloodworms and flakes). Evening - guppy pellets.

Once a week: bloodworms, peas.

Twice a week: algae wafers.

When/if the guppy food runs out (it might not, it's a huge container and I've barely touched it) I'll replace it with a higher quality flake, perhaps NLS.

I'd like to try frozen foods but I'm not sure where to start. I'd also like to try live foods - I have a container of water outside to trap mosquito larvae but I haven't got one yet.:ssmile: I did feed them fungus gnats that have infected my plants, they used to love them but leave them alone now. It's just as well, there's not very many fungus gnats anymore.

[Zilla]

My experience with live and frozen food is limited as I was feeding them to a Oscar, so that's not saying much. :hmm3grin2orange: When my tank is finally ready for fish, I won't be using skeeter larvae as they spray all kinds of junk in the air due to controlling pests on the cranberry bogs near by.

You know your fish best. I'd say try alittle of everything and see how it goes. Allowing them to be a tad on the hungry side may make them more willing to try new things. I know people associate fat fish to healthy fish, but that's not the case. Fish can get fatty liver disease amongst other things, and making them pick around isn't going to hurt them any as it's a natural behavior anyway.

Good luck with the feeding and eliminating the gunk. :11:

[Fraoch]

A thought regarding controlling algae...what about snails? Do any snails eat algae?

I believe I have good water conditions for snails - hard, alkaline water that ought to be great for shell-building.:ssmile:

[Zilla]

A thought regarding controlling algae...what about snails? Do any snails eat algae?

I believe I have good water conditions for snails - hard, alkaline water that ought to be great for shell-building.:ssmile:

I personally am not a fan of them, but if you'd like them, they'll help with algae issues. I've been told that Malaysian Trumpet Snails are not only good for cleaning, but they also help with substrate and preventing nitrogen pockets as they like to burrow.

[dblzz]

i got a 75 gall tank with 9 ghost shrimp, 1 sae, and 9 mts they do a great job for clean up have no prob at all the cae can get aggressive as they get older be careful with them guys sae eat all kinds of algae not string tho they are very peaceful they live with my tetras no prob with them or with my plants they are very hearty eaters, mts stir up my sand, heat and over feeding make a whole lot of them your tank could be covered in a couple of months they can do a good job on the glass and tight spots you could end up with thousamds before you know it

[KatzeSlaugen]

in my tank i have 12 corys to take care of the extra food on the bottom. to deal with algae i have a pleco (will outgrow the tank but thats a while off and when he does i already talked to my LFS about trading him in) and i also have a few ottos (great for getting algae off plants and decor). alot of what i read about ottos said they are hard to keep but from my experience they are just the opposite and mine are very healthy. i also have a yellow mystery snail. he cleans the algae too but i mostly just like the looks of him crawling around.

[Fraoch]

I personally am not a fan of them, but if you'd like them, they'll help with algae issues. I've been told that Malaysian Trumpet Snails are not only good for cleaning, but they also help with substrate and preventing nitrogen pockets as they like to burrow.

I've read about Malaysian Trumpet Snails, I've heard they reproduce like crazy and get into everything! I don't think I'd trade minor algae issues for major MTS issues!

Something else like a yellow mystery snail KatzeSlaugen suggests might be interesting. I believe even the PetSmart has them, not that I'd get them from there but they are widely available.

[robflanker]

Everything I've heard about snails is negative. Once you've got them, you've got them essentially forever.

[Zilla]

I've read about Malaysian Trumpet Snails, I've heard they reproduce like crazy and get into everything! I don't think I'd trade minor algae issues for major MTS issues!

Something else like a yellow mystery snail KatzeSlaugen suggests might be interesting. I believe even the PetSmart has them, not that I'd get them from there but they are widely available.

This is why I'm not a fan of snails.

I bought hortwort from Pet Smart when I first started cycling my tank and it had Pond snails as I found out a few days later. When I called them about it, the fish person told me to treat my tank with Snail Rid which is basically lethal doses of copper. When I told her that I didn't want to do that because I do want to add inverts ( shrimp) to the tank eventually, she told me to add a loach. That's all fine and well but a loach wouldn't have survived in my tank as I had just started cycling and the tank had lethal amounts of ammonia in it. At the point the person didn't know what to suggest, so I resorted to basic common sense.

I picked out the snails by hand as I saw them ( squishing them as many people suggest can lead to a nasty infection) then waited a few days to see if there was anymore. While I was waiting for more to appear, I had a face to face chat with one of their store managers regarding the health of their tanks in general, and their plant tank which is loaded with snails and half dead plants. I never did see anymore snails and if there was anymore, they starved to death as they didn't have a food source to pick from as there was no food in the tank and the hornwort went into my compost bin.

This is the problem people run into when they buy plants from places like Pet Smart, Pet Co, ect. I've argued with people about this as most will write this issue off as "Oh well, it happens!" Just as I don't invite a hacker to put their junk on my computer, I shouldn't have to worry about a snail invasion either from a so-called up to par company. I no longer buy plants from Pet Smart, I order them. I do have a person online that has recently sent me some plants as well, but he told me that he has snails in his tank, so I just gave the plants a bath before putting them in my tank just as I do with the company I order from.

If you don't want to buy something to control snail populations in the form of either medication to kill them which will toss your tank's cycle into a vortex from the massive die off or loaches that will eat them, I'd say stay away from them. Supposedly Assassin Snails do not reproduce like rabbits, but I have not put the time or effort into researching this further as I don't want snails in my tank.

If you decide to go that route, buyer beware. Wild caught snails can carry and introduce many other types of parasites and bacteria in your tank that could very well prove harmful if not fatal to your fish. If Pet Smart and other like-minded places cannot tell people where their snail come from, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

If it were me, I'd take the time to find the cause of the algae problem and go about it that route. It's easy enough to stop overfeeding fish, reduce photo periods and test water for things such as phosphates, excessive amounts of iron, increase water movement, ect. I think it's much better to go that way than put your fish at risk and or have a established tank go haywire because somebody doesn't know what they are talking about and are quick to give willy-nilly advice.

[KatzeSlaugen]

i do agree with alot of what your saying especially about how snails reproduce like crazy. mystery snails however cant reproduce unless there is a male and female (they arent asexual like alot of other snails and slugs) so if you have one in a tank you wont be overrun and in my opinion i think they can add a nice touch.
i would also highly reccomend against putting any wild caught snails / clams/ muscles in tanks as well. if you grab the wrong thing sure it may clean the tank but some freshwater invertibrates reproduce with a parasitic larva that will kill your fish.

i think what it really comes down to is youve gotten alot of info and you just need to sort through it to see which way youde like to go. since your tank is small i would recommend maybe an otto or two and definitely try to find the problem like Zilla said. that way your algae will go away and the otto will help keep everything clean

[TrueTexan]

I would reccomend a cleaning they are very helpful and make the tank more natural.

[jaysee]

I introduced MTS into one of my tanks as an experiment and so far I have the same three that I started with. They've been in there for almost 2 months now. I've been overfeeding, or at least trying to. How long does it take for them to multiply?

[dblzz]

look close around plants they are the size of ball point pen tip almost clear to a light grey they blend in very good just stare at a spot 2 inch square for a few minutes you should see very slight movement you got them just cant see them