Blackmoores dying =(

[Chloe88]

I need help!! I have two blackmoores that are very sick and dying! :scry:

They are living in a 2ft, 60L freshwater tank. Their symptoms are laying on the bottom of the tank on their side, gasping heaps and unable to swim. They are very bloated due to them being constipated - they haven't pooed for 4 days!! They don't have any black marks but their fins are looking a bit shabby so I think they have fin rot.

I've cleaned the filter/pump, changed the water (it was VERY bad!), tested the Ph and its was neutral, added water treatment (Aquarium science complete water treatment), added salt to the water like the pet shop lady told me to and nothing has made them better. I have talked to people on different sites about it and they have asked me for all kinds of test results and levels of things... I'm very new to the fish game, I don't know much about anything so the only test i've done is the Ph!

I started feeding them a different brand of food about 2 weeks ago, its the same one that the pet shop uses to feed their fish so I don't think it is the food making them sick. I also added plastic plants to the tank at the same time as I changed their food if this has anything to do with it...

I don't know what I'm supposed to do to make them better! Please :help: 14150

14151

[Sharon]

If the tank is not cycled, the fish are probably reacting to toxins in the water...that is high levels of Ammonia and Nitrites. You really need to pick up an API master test kit...the one with vials and not test strips. Without the water readings it's impossible to say what's going on. For now, I'd do a 50% water change, and another 50% change tomorrow. Don't feed for three days, and then feed cooked, shelled peas only for a couple of days. That should help if indeed they are constipated.:ssmile:

[smaug]

They are not black moors.But as sharon said,your tank may not be cycled,nor is it big enough for 2 large goldfish.Please read our ebook available on this site,it is full of info regarding cycling.Keep up with the water changes but back off on the salt,its not as helpful as petshops lead you to believe.Feed your fish some shelled peas,this will help with there constipation.What is the temp of the water?Much higher then 75deg or so is too warm for most goldys.Does the tank have any other fish in it?Dont worry about the ph,at this point it doesnt really matter unless its extremely high or low,goldys adapt very well to it.

[Little Embers]

WELCOME Chloe :ssmile: I agree with Sharon and Smaug! The first thing that will definitely help is keeping up with partial water changes and syphoning the gravel. Shabby fins can often be a sign of poor water quality. How long have you had the tank and how much of a water change did you do originally?

Sharon alread mentioned the API test kits which are needed!! You may have been overfeeding them as well which will cause water quality problems and can lead to constipation as well...I would also stop feeding for a few dys as Sharon said and stop using the salt as smaug mentioned.

[Little Embers]

Just an added thought Chloe, Goldfish require a lot of oxygen and warmer water temperature means less oxygen is available, so depending on your tank temperature and filtration system you may need to increase the water flow on it (if it comes with a water flow control knob) for extra aeration or add an air-stone.

[Chloe88]

I bought a test kit and the results are...

General hardness 30ppm (mg/L)
Carbonate hardness 180ppm (mg/L)
Nitrate/nitrite 0ppm (mg/L)

I tested the Ph with my old kit and it was 7.0 wich they say is perfect, but the new kit says its 6.5 and they reckon thats below normal... so i don't know what to do there!!


I bought a new BETTER filter (the old one was crap) and "triple sulpha" tablets, the pet shop told me it would help with the diseases and stuff. I've had the same tank and fish setup for a year.

There was a thick layer of slime or something over the whole floor of the tank thismorning so i bought a cyphon thing and cleaned it all out. Hopefully with the new pump and cleaning it out and medicine they'll come good, i'll give the peas a go too.

Thanks heaps!!

[mommy1]

you didnt give us a number for ammonia. did you buy test strips or liquid testers with the test tubes? when fish gasp for air sometimes it means ammonia poisoning. keep doing water changes and use your new syphon to "vacuum" the gravel each time. dont forget to put dechlorinator in everytime you add water. your fish should show improvement soon.

[Little Embers]

As mommy1 mentioned, testing for ammonia is all important and you do need to test for that, as it sounds like something has happened to the cycle if you have had the tank running for a year and getting no reading of nitrates (there should be some level of nitrates if the tank is cycled) BUT that could be due to all the cleaning you just did and changing the filter (particularly if you removed all the old filter media as well) and the tank may need to cycle again.

Do not worry about the PH as smaug said. I honestly would not use the medication tablets at this stage if you don't know whether they have an actual disease or not and it may set back the tank cycling. The problem sounds like it all stems from the water quality and build up of toxins and now that you have improved that and continue to keep up with proper tank maintenance and don't overfeed, the fish should improve as well.

[Chloe88]

I bought the kit that has the strips you put in the water and read the colour, they didn't have any vial test kits =( and it doesn't have an ammonia tester on it. If the ammonia is bad how do i fix it?

The water treatment i use is "aquarium science complete water treatment", it claims to eliminate all the ammonia in the water as well as coat the fish to protect them, add vitamin B, dechlorinate the water... and "help prevent dehydration"!!! I fail to see how a fish is supposed to dehydrate THEY LIVE IN WATER!! Maybe i missed something :rolleyes:

And i don't quite understand what you all mean by the tank "cycle", like i said i'm very uneducated when it comes to fish! Or maybe i'm just an idiot but what do you all mean by tank "cycle"? :ssmile:

And i already put the triple sulpha in the tank... I put in the dose for "severe infestation" because thats what the pet shop lady told me to do... Sorry i did that before i read all the posts =( Is this going to hinder their healing??

[mommy1]

you fix the water by doing water changes. i would suggest about 50% each day. till the fish are not gasping anymore. i also strongly advise the liquid testers they are more acurate heres a link to get them online www.petsolutions.com (http://www.petsolutions.com) they are usually cheaper online.

[Little Embers]

Originally posted by Chloe88..The water treatment i use is "aquarium science complete water treatment", it claims to eliminate all the ammonia in the water as well as coat the fish to protect them, add vitamin B, dechlorinate the water... and "help prevent dehydration"!!! I fail to see how a fish is supposed to dehydrate THEY LIVE IN WATER!! Maybe i missed something

And i don't quite understand what you all mean by the tank "cycle", like i said i'm very uneducated when it comes to fish! Or maybe i'm just an idiot but what do you all mean by tank "cycle"?

And i already put the triple sulpha in the tank... I put in the dose for "severe infestation" because thats what the pet shop lady told me to do... Sorry i did that before i read all the posts =( Is this going to hinder their healing??

I know it can all sound technical Chloe. :scry:

Quite simply, Cycling is just the process where a few types of beneficial bacteria (which always need to be present in a tank) begin to colonise to deal with the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate produced by fish waste and decaying food. The first bacteria to start growing is the one that needs ammonia as a food source and then converts it into nitrite. If the "All complete water treatment removes all ammonia as it states, then that will not allow that bacteria to grow and get the cycling process started. Just a good water conditioner that removes chlorine/chloramines and heavy metals is fine and most of them aid the slime coating as well.

Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are all toxic to fish and can kill them. Ammonia is the most lethal, next toxic is nitrite and nitrate is the least toxic but can still kill fish at very high levels. When a tank is cycled you should have consistent levels of Ammonia at 0, Nitrite at 0 and Nitrate between 5-10 parts per million when you test the water with the test kits.

Fish, just like us can de-hydrate (sounds funny I know) even though they live in water. They can de-hydrate internally, they have a system that regulates the amount of water in their body and because they take in water when they breathe, they need to remove a lot of it, so if something happens to interfere with this system they can either end up with too much water in their body or too little water.

"Severe Infestation" for what? Nothing against pet shop or LFS owner's/employees, but if they don't ask the basic questions first such as the one's we did here, I would not automatically do what they say. As Smaug said, there No.1 priority it to make a sale. All you need here IMO and as the other members have advised, is water changes and proper tank maintenance and to read up on the "Cycling" and buy the ammonia test kit.

Here is a link to Lady Hobb's "Cycling" sticky thread, which explains it fully. http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=36492

You'll get there Chloe, don't worry.....:shappy: