cycling with plants.

[minneapolis]

I haven't had an aquarium running for years, the last one I had was larger (55 gallon) and was already established so this is the first time I have ever cycled an aquarium. I set up my new 16 gallon aquarium, everything in it is new. I added 2 small low light grassy plants and a piece of driftwood (13 inches long 6 inches wide) with a Java plant that was already anchored to the wood. I bought a small 3 inch koi to add to my outdoor pond the same day I bought the aquarium and so I added him to the tank for a couple of days just to watch him- I just put him in my pond today because I wasn't really planning to do a cycle with fish but I figured the water was safe enough for 2 days and figured his dirtying the tank a little might be good for it. Now that he is out of the tank I am planning on adding ammonia daily but wasn't thinking about my plants. Will they burn? I am assuming the driftwood might have brought some beneficial bacteria with it, I bought it at petsmart and it was in a plant tank that had a couple of fish swimming in it so I will guess it was in somewhat of an established tank (but who knows since it was petsmart so I won't make assumptions) The employee said the wood had been in the tank for over a week and had come in a wet bag.

My big question. Should I take the plants back out while I cycle? I want to cycle as fast as possible. I am not as concerned about the grassy plants, I can put them in a bucket but the java is planted nicely a hole in the driftwood and I would like to keep the driftwood in the tank if possible.

Side note- the 3 inch koi did a great job of dirtying up my tank in the 48 hours he was there, He also nibbled on my grassy plants.

I tested the water right after I removed the koi and there were no nitrates yet after 48 hours so the cycle hasn't done much yet.

[Alfcea]

Where did the plants come from? Did you disinfect them before putting them in the tank? If they were kept with fish, and you didn't disinfect them, they probably have some bacteria on them already, so you have seeded your tank. As long as you don't add too many fish too quickly, the colonies will grow to handle the bioload. Intant cycle!

Otherwise, smaller concentrations of ammonia will not harm them (as long as it is not too concentrated!). In fact, they will use the ammonia for their own growth. Try keeping about 2 or 3 ppm of ammonia in the tank and monitor frequently. I believe you'll see nitrates pretty soon. Good luck!

[minneapolis]

I meant to say no nitrites (not nitrates) yet when I tested. I am assuming the driftwood also seeded my tank more than the plants... I have heard that wood is a good media for that. I did not disinfect the wood or the plants for that reason (the wood and plants were in a plant aquarium but there were fish in it as well and I am guessing it was to keep a good bacteria balance. I would have held off on adding the plants, it just never occurred to me that they might interfere with cycling by slowing it down or that they might burn. I knew enough that it was best to not add fish until my tank was established but plants never crossed my mind.

[PostalPenguin]

Plants are quite hardy and the normal levels you fishless cycle at, ~5ppm, are harmless to the plants. If you cycle with fish, the fish will be dead before the plants are affected by ammonia. Plants are good for cycling since they suck up nitrates and some nitrites and ammonia.

[Heliwyr]

Plants are quite hardy and the normal levels you fishless cycle at, ~5ppm, are harmless to the plants. If you cycle with fish, the fish will be dead before the plants are affected by ammonia. Plants are good for cycling since they suck up nitrates and some nitrites and ammonia.

Well, if you cycle with fish, then yes, plants are great of mediating something that could be disasterous.

If you're fishless cycling, plants would probably slow down the cycle since they end up sucking up some of the ammonia that the bacteria need. In this case, since you are not concerned about the health of the fish (there are none), the bacteria's needs should be greater than the plants. Therefore, you want as much of the ammonia/nitrite going towards feeding the growing colonies of bacteria.

[minneapolis]

Hmmm... maybe I'll at least remove the grassy plants and leave the java since it's already anchored in the driftwood. One Plant can't make that much difference can it? It's not a big plant by any stretch. I can put the grassy plants in a bucket while I wait for the cycle to complete.

[Glub]

Most of the bacteria from an established tank is in the filter. Not the driftwood, or the gravel, or the water. A piece of established driftwood would only really matter if there were fish in there.

The bacteria you want isn't in the water, it's on the surfaces, so putting a piece of established driftwood on the bottom of your tank shouldn't make much, if any difference in how long it takes your filter to cycle. If anything it might even increase the time it takes your filter to cycle, and will decrease the amount of bacteria you end up growing in your filter at the end of the cycle.

I think you'd have more luck speeding up your cycle if you broke a small piece off the driftwood and wedged it in with your filter media. Can anyone back this up?

[KoKoPuff]

Most of the bacteria from an established tank is in the filter. Not the driftwood, or the gravel, or the water. A piece of established driftwood would only really matter if there were fish in there.

The bacteria you want isn't in the water, it's on the surfaces, so putting a piece of established driftwood on the bottom of your tank shouldn't make much, if any difference in how long it takes your filter to cycle. If anything it might even increase the time it takes your filter to cycle, and will decrease the amount of bacteria you end up growing in your filter at the end of the cycle.

I think you'd have more luck speeding up your cycle if you broke a small piece off the driftwood and wedged it in with your filter media. Can anyone back this up?
I completely disagree, sorry! Established bacteria from ANY source is a good thing for a new tank. Any hitchiker diseases or fungus, however.... that's a different story.

[Glub]

But they've got no fish in the tank, what's the bacteria on the driftwood helping if there's nothing to keep alive, and it's not traveling through the water to the filter, and it's competing with the bacteria trying to grow in the filter for ammonia?

[bushwhacker]

the wood is not going to hurt anything neither will the plants... go ahead and do your fishless cycle if thats what you want or get a few hardy fish and get the cycle started

[PostalPenguin]

The bacteria that you want will be everywhere in the tank. If the driftwood was in a high current area it is likely to be loaded with the cycling bacteria. Not as much as the filter media but still have a fair amount. If the driftwood was in a dead spot of the tank, the bacteria count will likely be quite low and not help all that much. To help seed the filter you could try scraping the woods surface to release the bacteria into the water column where they will hopefully stick to the filter.

[minneapolis]

thanks everyone

[KoKoPuff]

But they've got no fish in the tank, what's the bacteria on the driftwood helping if there's nothing to keep alive, and it's not traveling through the water to the filter, and it's competing with the bacteria trying to grow in the filter for ammonia?
All that matters is the bacteria as a wholein the tank.. and nobody said anything about not adding any source of ammonia

[minneapolis]

I am adding ammonia daily and as far as the bacteria goes, I know it grows faster in the filter. In an established tank bacteria is everywhere but it flourishes and in the filter where all the junk is- and the water is flowing. No matter where it grows it's all good and does the same job whether it's on a piece of wood, a rock or wherever so it's not like competing with itself is a bad thing, I just want it in my tank and anywhere it wants to set up shop is fine with me. My tank actually showed nitrites today. That was quick! Just a trace but there they be! :) Not bad for four days!

[Fraoch]

My tank actually showed nitrites today. That was quick! Just a trace but there they be! :) Not bad for four days!

That's probably the wood then!

I'm wondering if there's anything you can use from your pond to act as a bacteria seed for your aquarium. I don't know that much about ponds so I'm not sure - you may be introducing wild organisms and pathogens, it may do more harm than good.

But at any rate, nitrite in 4 days is well, well ahead of what you should expect, so you're well on your way anyway.

[minneapolis]

I wouldn't mess with bringing the pond to the aquarium, I felt it was risky enough putting the wood in since it came from petsmart but the wood seemed to work, makes me think aquariums should sell hunks of wood that are sitting in established aquariums when they are selling new aquarium set ups. According to the readings I took today my tank appears to have cycled already. The driftwood must have been loaded!

[Lady Hobbs]

I used to grab all the wood in my tanks and toss it all into the one tank I was about it cycle. Wood is porous and has a lot of bacteria clinging to it. I always got fast cycles using wood......(like 12 days) with the ammonia. Your wood may have only been in the tank for a day or two, tho. Hard telling since you purchased it.