Low PH & ammonia questions

[lava]

Hey guys, I have a problem with my PH, I read the 7.0 is neutral , it is what seems to be coming of my tap. witch is between 6.8-7.0 but when I messure my aquarium PH it shows 6.6 I have sand as my substrate and nothing eles in the aquarium so far, so could this be the culprit? a PH of 6.6 doesnt passes a threat to my future fish, but the problem is, I will be adding driftwood witch would lower it even more. So could I add some shells to help the PH go up? or the shells+driftwood will cause PH swings? also would the shells constantly raise the PH till they are out of the charts?

Now my ammonia is being all weird. I dose it to about 1ppm and in 4 hrs it is all gone! Then it causes my nitrites to spike to .50 So to get to my question wouldnt the rise in nitrites be bad for the fish? I am confused as to how this works when fish are in teh aquarium. If the ammonia causes the nitrites to spike then how does it work out when the fish constantly give off ammonia and not die from the nitrite spikes? Sorry for the questions again.

[Gemini]

Sounds like your tank is cycling!
Cycling creates the bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrites and the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates. So with your ammonia disappearing it means that the bacteria to convert it to nitrite is there! This is excellent! Now you want to keep dosing the ammonia and you should see the nitrites spike and then start to go down and then nitrates show. So keep doing what your doing here!! thumbs2:
In a cycled tank, the rate at which the fish produce ammonia is in balance with the bacteria converting it to nitrites > same with bacteria converting to nitrates. So it turns up and gets converted to nitrites then to nitrates. We then remove the nitrates through water changes. If you have plants in the tank they will use some of the nitrates for food.
If you haven't already - check out the free aquarium EBook in the menu on the LH side. It explains the process well.
The neutral PH out of the tap and then dropping - sounds like your water doesn't have much of a buffering capacity so it drops a bit. Sand can increase the Ph as it is can be made of shells and corals. A stable PH is most important for fish. What type of fish are you hoping to keep?
Good luck

[lava]

Ah I thought my Cycle was done? The only reason why I dose the ammonia is because I am not ready for the fish. So that is the supplement . In the morning when I wake up and check my nitrites and ammonia they are all at zero and the nitrates are at 40+ so wouldnt that mean my cycle is done? As for my future fish, I am hoping to try and make it into a community tank that will consist of something like corys,shrimp,mts, and some others that I have not decided on. Btw you said that the sand may contain some shells, so wouldnt that rise my PH not lower it?

[Gemini]

How long do you see nitrites for?
If the ammonia and nitrites both go to 0 then yes you should be cycled. Your bacteria may be dying off a little bit if you see a small spike in nitrites. But it does sound cycled.
How much longer until you start to add fish?
Corys and the other fish you have suggested should adapt fine to a PH of between 6 and 7 - if you can get it stable.
I would get a bucket (clean) fill it with some tap water and test the PH. Then leave it with dechlor in it for 24 hours and test it again. That way you can identify if its the water that is dropping or something causing it. (If that makes sense...)

[lava]

Well I only test 1s a day so, I wake up in the morning dose the ammonia to 1 then check the nitrite spike, and that is all. Next morning I wake up check everything and its all at zero. SO i guess the nitrite stays till the next day. As far as the bucket test, I understand that , do you think I can use the shells to raise the PH? or will they raise it to much? and if I was to add the driftwood that I found would it cause any PH swings?

[Gemini]

Well I only test 1s a day so, I wake up in the morning dose the ammonia to 1 then check the nitrite spike, and that is all. Next morning I wake up check everything and its all at zero. SO i guess the nitrite stays till the next day. As far as the bucket test, I understand that , do you think I can use the shells to raise the PH? or will they raise it to much? and if I was to add the driftwood that I found would it cause any PH swings?
Sounds like your cycled to me.
Well shells normally will raise a PH yes. However by how much is hard to say. That depends on how many shells, the PH to start with, the buffering capacity etc. The driftwood in theory will lower the PH. But again it's hard to say by how much, for the same reasons as above.
I would do the bucket test and see what you are dealing with to start with. If you don't have a KH test then maybe take some water to a LFS to get them to test it for you? The Kh is the hardness - the amount of minerals and stuff dissolved in the water. High KH means the minerals will provide a buffer against PH swings.
Then I think it will be easier to help you determine what to do to keep it stable.

[lava]

Hmmm ic..... Btw whats the DH stand for? sorry for being so random lol

[Gemini]

DH - general hardness
KH - carbonate hardness
This link might help explain it.
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/hardness.htm

I am far from an expert on water chemistry - maybe some of the experts will chime in soon and confirm or correct what I've said.

[lava]

Okay :) thanks Mini! xD

[Fraoch]

It sounds like you have a cycle established. Whatever you do, don't stop adding ammonia - if there's no ammonia for 12-24 hours the bacteria dies off and you have to start all over again.

It sounds like perhaps your cycle is weak, particularly with respect to the nitrite -> nitrate converting bacteria - you shouldn't get a nitrite spike unless your nitrite -> nitrate bacteria can't handle it, and nitrite is more toxic to fish than ammonia, particularly at a low pH (where there's less toxic ammonia and more non-toxic ammonium).

You may want to increase the ammonia you're adding a little bit until the nitrite spike goes away, see http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5640

So either keep adding ammonia or add fish. Whether you can add the fish you want with the pH you have is another matter...

[lava]

Ohhhh okay! :) from hobbs artical

"If you are unable to get that tank stocked right away, continue adding just a few drops of ammonia each day until you can get those fish in the tank"

I guess this answers why my nitrites spike? I dont add a few drops.... I usually add about 5 caps of it

Thanks Froach you opened my blind eyes!!

[fraggle]

lava it sounds like you have soft water, the cycle of ammonia - nitirite - nitrate is acidic in nature, so if you have soft water (like I do!) it can drop your pH.

As for driftwood, it can lower you pH, but the tannins in it also buffer it, so it doesn't just keep dropping it it will drop it to a certain point then it will help hold it there too. (I've just stuck some big bits in one of my 55's to help)

[Fraoch]

Ohhhh okay! :) from hobbs artical

"If you are unable to get that tank stocked right away, continue adding just a few drops of ammonia each day until you can get those fish in the tank"

I guess this answers why my nitrites spike? I dont add a few drops.... I usually add about 5 caps of it

That could be a lot, yes!

In which case you actually have quite a robust cycle that can withstand so much ammonia yet eliminate it completely in a day. You indicate it overwhelms the nitrite -> nitrate bacteria because you get a nitrite spike, but that goes away on its own as well, you're saying.