Possible SW tank in future.. Suggestions?

[Cameron]

So i've been recently inspired by a couple new SW tank owners and i'm considering starting one, not for a while, end of June at the earliest probably later so im not positive on how big or all the much yet, but would like some suggestions for like a 20H tank or 29G tank. Lighting, rock(live/dead) powerheads, and maybe stocking something basic. I really like the looks of some polyps and a few corals so i might try those at one point. I know i need to do lots and lots of learning any suggestions on books, internet sites, and other sources of good info to get me ready to start a tank. Thanks for all the help you can give me!! (Links are nice:ssmile: )

[rageybug]

When just starting out, I like to put together a list of fish and/or coral that I would like to keep. Once I decided on that list, I will find the right tank to suit them. Once the tank has been selected, then you will know what type of light and flow you will need. It is just a step by step process.

Many people will choose their tank first (or use an existing tank) but this can limit your choices later on. If you are going to go buy a new tank, make the stock list first. If you are going to use a tank you already have, find out what will fit in it.

[Cameron]

Well for a basic list i like:
2 Ocellaris Clownfish
Button Polyps
Banded Coral Shrimp
Electric Blue Hermit Crab
Zebra Turbo Snail
Fiji Standard Live Rock (45 lbs) gives +1.5 lbs/G in 29G

Thats a basic list im thinking i could move my 29G fresh to a 20 Long and use my 29G tank for a SW setup.

[oldhead]

I think you would be much happier with the 29 gallon tank at the end of the day. And if you could go larger than that things would be even better/slightly easier for you. Just be sure that you take your time and get all the information that you need together first. GLHF

[coachfraley]

I agree with oldhead, that bigger is better, BUT...the 29g tank will not give you as many lighting options as other tanks. If you are hanging your lights, or setting up a retro unit, then go with the 29 for sure. But if you are buying a fixture, you will have a hard time finding one that is made for the 30" width. Most SW fixtures are made for 24", 36", 48".

[Cameron]

thanks, any other suggestions on stocking how much of what??

Also any good internet sites with good SW info.

[sid101]

I am a noob in S/W but i can give you the almost non existant info i got.

For stocking i would select one single fish (or a couple if you go for clows) and grow from there, i spend hours each day learning about fish species for S/W and i have liked many of them but either the tank is too small or they dont mix too well, just put together a solid tank (solid filteringwise) and start litle by litle, for a 29g tank you could have a crab, a shrimp, your cleaning crew, a couple other inverts and about 4 not too big fish (let's say 4 maybe 5 inches each).

Your problem may be lighting if you want to keep corals if you do so look for some t-5 fixtures those bulbs are great for reefing and not as expensive as metal halide.

[Cameron]

What about a 24G cube, like this one http://www.petsolutions.com/default.aspx?ItemId=92412099&EID=92412099&SID=FROOGLE

Would i run into problems with low light polyps and zoas? How about the filtering system, would it lead to higher nitrates? Any other suggestions...

I'm not swarming in money, im also 16, so i would like to keep this project under $400-$500.

Anyone want to suggest other similer sized tanks and equipment, your help is really appreciated

[AABatteries]

Hey, cool. We'll definitely have to share frags once our tanks get going.

And yes, t5 would be the way to go for that tank. Research is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing. I know that at Two Turtles in Akron, LR is $9.99/lb and $6.99/lb(40lbs+); Wet Pets in Canton, is $6.99/lb.; Salty Critter $7.99/lb and $5.99/lb(40lbs+).

You have to make the 1hr. 30min. journey up to Salty Critter (http://saltycritter.com/) in Vermillon. It is an AMAZING store! They will be able to answer almost any question you can throw at them. It is the best store I have ever been too.

EDIT: I would go with a standard tank. With cubes, you're pretty much limited to whatever they come with.

[Cameron]

Thanks for all that info, i might get a 20H cause my LFS has them pretty cheap, and try to mimic your setup a bit. :)

[Cameron]

Ok im trying to put together a list of equipment for now any ideas are nice.

20 Gallon High Tank
24" 2x65 Watt Satellite Power Compact
100 Watt Heater
Maxi-Jet 900 Powerhead.. this enough flow?
Coralife 24 GPD RO Unit
Carib Sea Aragonite Sand 20lbs.. This or crushed coral?
API Reef Master Test Kit

I'm going to try and get the live rock locally and hopefully the fish. Do i need a protein skimmer, would it give a noticeable amount of help?
What about this Skimmer (http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18491/si2984686/cl0/oceanicbiocubeproteinskimmer)

Anything else or suggestions please post!!!:help:

[AABatteries]

I would get a Koralia 1 instead of a Maxi-Jet. I have one in my 20g and I'm still going to get a nano too. I

have the same fixture, great fixture, I would go with 4x24w t5 fixture over that. I just got mine because I got it for a great price off ebay.

I would go with the crushed coral because even with it, the pH is still a little low. I can't even imagine how screwed up I would be if I got sand. The reason I'm saying this is because we live in the same area.

We'll pretty much have identical set-ups. I have the same test kit, its a good one. I'll probably be getting the same RO unit. And that skimmer isn't probably to great. A Remora AquaC Nano would be a great one to get. I'm probably going to be getting a Coralife Super Skimmer 65 or an Octopus DBH-300, they are a little large for the but will still work, plus I can get them for a good price.

[Cameron]

I would get a Koralia 1 instead of a Maxi-Jet. I have one in my 20g and I'm still going to get a nano too. I

have the same fixture, great fixture, I would go with 4x24w t5 fixture over that. I just got mine because I got it for a great price off ebay.

I would go with the crushed coral because even with it, the pH is still a little low. I can't even imagine how screwed up I would be if I got sand. The reason I'm saying this is because we live in the same area.

We'll pretty much have identical set-ups. I have the same test kit, its a good one. I'll probably be getting the same RO unit. And that skimmer isn't probably to great. A Remora AquaC Nano would be a great one to get. I'm probably going to be getting a Coralife Super Skimmer 65 or an Octopus DBH-300, they are a little large for the but will still work, plus I can get them for a good price.

Its awesome having a friend so close! Thanks for the suggestion i was thinking about getting one of the Koralia's but they're a little pricey. How far away from Brunswick are you? Have you been to the store there? I forget what its called but i know they have SW stuff, so im going to check them out sooner or later. It'll be fun comparing setups, pics, corals and stuff.

[AABatteries]

Yeah. At Pet Supplies Plus Koralia 1's are only $27, so I might get another one of those. I'm surprised there are 3 of us that live in NE Ohio on here.

I think I'm about 30 mins away from Brunswick. I live just outside of Akron. I don't think I've been to a store out there. You should make a journey up to Salty Critter. Even though it is a 1hr. 15min. drive, it is way worth it. I'll be heading up there next weekend. And I'll probably stop by Two Turtles in Akron, you may or may not have heard of it over spring break, which is next week for me. (:

[Cameron]

yeah once i check out the one closest to me in Brunswick (15 minutes) I'll see, and yeah i want to check the Salty critter out. Do they have live and dead rock?
Thanks again

[AABatteries]

They have LR at SC for $7.50/lb or 40lbs+ is $5.99. They have sooooo much to choose from! They have 4, 150g rubbermaid tubs filled with LR. I got 12 lbs of dead rock and I'm seeding it with 5lbs of LR. I'll be getting probably another chunk(1-3lbs) next time I head up there.

Two Turtles has the best price for fish around here that I know of.

[Cameron]

Just Put $100 into the bank towards the tank, im very excited to learn more and gather things together!! I'm hoping to have everthing setup and running late June, early July.. I can't wait.

[AABatteries]

You'll have it set-up before then. I was planning on setting it up in April and I did it in March.

[Cameron]

yeah i hope so im super excited its not even funny.
Should i get the tank and liverock first or the tank and powerheads first? Like what should i setup before i get fish and corals??

Thanks

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Get your equipment first. Live Rock is very inefficient without good water movement. Take your time. Get the equipment, then get your water in there and let it mix good. Then once it is good, get your Live Rock and add it. Put your rock down before you put your sand in there. Then put the sand in and let the tank cycle. I'd let it sit for 6 weeks before adding any livestock at all.

[Cameron]

Get your equipment first. Live Rock is very inefficient without good water movement. Take your time. Get the equipment, then get your water in there and let it mix good. Then once it is good, get your Live Rock and add it. Put your rock down before you put your sand in there. Then put the sand in and let the tank cycle. I'd let it sit for 6 weeks before adding any livestock at all.

Thanks for the help, why sand last?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Because your flow is going to rearrange the sand for you, and you don't want it blowing the support out from under the rock and have it topple and crash trough your glass.

[travie]

Thanks for the help, why sand last?

Because your flow is going to rearrange the sand for you, and you don't want it blowing the support out from under the rock and have it topple and crash trough your glass.

And if you get anything that likes to make burrows or dig in the sand, it will dig under the rock and probably cause the rock to slide/fall.

[Cameron]

thanks, it makes sense now. Anyways i just put holds on these books:

-500 ways to be a better saltwater fishkeeper
-The saltwater aquarium handbook
-The new encyclopedia of the saltwater aquarium
-A reef comes to life : creating an undersea exhibit

I'm hoping they'll give me some good info and knowledge, once again thanks for the help.

[Cameron]

just finished 500 ways to be a better saltwater fishkeeper, it was pretty informative, tons of different info on tons of subjects, like lighting, heating, maintenance, inverts, fish, and other basics.

Just want to make sure a Koralia 1 and a 100 watt heater will be enough, its going to be in my basement which usually remains in the mid 60's

[AABatteries]

Those will both be sufficient. I'm running a 75w heater.

[rageybug]

Because your flow is going to rearrange the sand for you, and you don't want it blowing the support out from under the rock and have it topple and crash trough your glass.

Very good point...! I never thought about that, or that the rocks could be toppled by a digging goby (TRAVIE)

I've always put my sand in first so I have something to press the rocks into to make them more stable.

[Cameron]

Do i need to glue my Live Rock?? Or if i stack it right it will be fine?

Thanks

[travie]

If you stack the rock so that it can't wiggle at all, you will probably be fine. If you want to be more creative with aquascaping, I would use glue/epoxy to enable you to be mroe creative.

[rageybug]

I have never used glue/epoxy on my LR. I have found that the higher up you go, the smaller the pieces should be. This reduces the risk of a rock slide. If they do shift, only the top rocks should fall, and they would be the smaller ones. This photo is getting a lot of use lately... but I'll post it again just to show you what I mean. This is how I do it, I am not saying it is the best method,, just the best that I have done.


http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp132/rageybug/P1010004.jpg


Since you need to put your LR and sand in first, you will be able to get the rocks just right before adding anything like fish or inverts. Just play around with the rock while setting it up until you find a good solid spot that the piece settles in to.

[Cameron]

Yeah i read about the big rocks on bottom and larger ones on top. Will liverock have some life loss if its out of water for a little while?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Yes, but that is what starts the cycle in a SW tank.

[rageybug]

Anytime that the LR is not wet, it will start to die off. Most of the life in the LR does not need to be underwater tosurvive,, just wet. With that said, ,try to keep it under water as much as possible,, this stuff is found under the ocean, not above it!

Sponges will die 100% of the time that they are exposed to air, even for a second or two. If you have live sponges on your LR, you will need to keep it fully underwater at all times to keep it alive.

[kaybee]

...Sponges will die 100% of the time that they are exposed to air, even for a second or two...

Some sponges (many of the types you can purchase), but not all (several of the hitch-hiking variety).

[Cameron]

How many of what for my CUC, i heard a snail per 2 gallons, 1 emerald crab, like 10 blue (and)or red hermit crabs. And when im done cycling a cleaner shrimp.

How does that sound? any suggestions?

[rageybug]

Some sponges (many of the types you can purchase), but not all (several of the hitch-hiking variety).


You can buy lots of different sponges, but if any sponges are exposed to air, they will die.

[rageybug]

How many of what for my CUC, i heard a snail per 2 gallons, 1 emerald crab, like 10 blue (and)or red hermit crabs. And when im done cycling a cleaner shrimp.

How does that sound? any suggestions?


You list sounds okay,, maybe a little more would be better. You don't want to add any of your CUC until the cycle is over.

[Cameron]

like more snails and hermits? 15 hermits? 15 - 20 snails, depending on waste control and food availability?

[AABatteries]

You should get the 'Nano' package from Salty Critter. Here it is...

Nano Package
8 Astrea Snails
2 Turbo or Trochus Snails
5 Blueleg Hermits
2 Scarlet Hermits
1 Emerald Crab
3 Nassarius Snails
Total - $29.99
Save - $7.51

[Cameron]

will that be ok to put in all at once, when the cycle is done??

BTW i haven't even got the tank yet so yeah, still plenty of research and stuff to do.

[labnjab]

I'd do half, if you do them all they would run out of food and the hermits would kill everything

[Cameron]

And what do you suppose i do with the other half while i wait a week or 2? :) I'll probably just buy them separately and not as a package but we'll see.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Here's what I would do for a CUC. Start out with a pair of Trochus snails and maybe a couple of Hermit crabs. Then when the Green Hair algae hits, increase the number of Hermits. Don't bother with Nassarius snails or a star until you have fish in the tank. Both of those are detirtus eaters so there would be nothing in the tank for them when it is first setup.

[Cameron]

So i can get a starfish?!? What kind, just a serpent star??

[Cameron]

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!

I was talking to my dad and he said he'd help pay for some of the stuff(if i pay him back), so im going to get a bigger tank, i'm looking at a 55 gallon or maybe a little less but nothing under a 29g so i'm even more excited(on craigslist)!

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Go for the 55, you won't regret it.

[Cameron]

So assuming i'm probably going to get a 55 what kind of stocking do you guys think would be fairly low and manageable? I still want a pair of clowns, and thats about it what kind of numbers for my CUC?

Thanks again!

[AABatteries]

I would go with a dwarf angel of some kind as a centerpiece fish.

[Cameron]

So would 2 Clowns, a bicolor, or flame dwarf angel, and maybe a firefish, or some kind of goby be about it, or could i get a small shoal(4 or 5) of blue green chomisis? chromi? LOL.

Anyways I'm so excited for this thing its crazy, the only thing im worried about is that im going to find a tank with everything, but its going to have fish already in it and i won't know what to do with them if they're not what i'm planning on having, because i dont think i can afford to buy live rock separate from the tank unless i can find the tank, lights, skimmer, and powerheads for around $200, which i think isn't very likely.


EDIT: I would die for this tank Here (http://cleveland.craigslist.org/for/1081381203.html) sounds like a winner, but i dont know if i could manage to keep it going with all that stuff already, but that IS my price range..

[rageybug]

Not a bad deal. I know this is a long shot but if you can transport about 1/2 of the water that is in the tank back to your place, you should be able to keep everything alive and well. The mushrooms are pretty much bombproof, and the CUC and fish will be fine too. It is just like buying it all from your LFS. Just bag it up and bring it home. Just make sure to acclimate it correctly.

Only thing that might suffer a bit is the gorgonian. They are pretty tough to keep at the best of times. They are strict filter feeders so you will need the water from his tank to keep it alive. If you do all new water, there will be nothing in it for the gorgonian to eat.

Maybe you know someone with a SW tank near you who can babysit some of the stock for you?

You may want to inquire as to how old the bulbs in that light are. You may need new bulbs which would be an unexpected cost.