Moral question...

[sid101]

Does someone who knows the law is not going to be able to stop a dangerous situation for a citizen take action and go beat the hell out of the criminal to prove the agressor that they can stand up to him and overpower him?

My problem is that i have a homeles guy arround my workplace that wont stop trying to rob me, harase me and threaten me with stabbing me, i have told the cops a couple of times, they have beaten the crap out of him and take his knife but he won't stop, i think i have to be the one to overpower him ad beat him up, show him im not afraid ad that i can take him down, it's basic bully psychology.

[ZCciVic22]

Wow, interesting situation... The cops beat him up?

If what you mean is that you think he is just threatening you but won't take any action, I'd probably just leave it alone... Have you informed your employer? Givin a pre-emptive butt whoopin may not always be the best idea, because that may actually provoke future attacks... Good luck, maybe look into hiring Iron Man.

[sid101]

i've been looking for ninjas in the yellow pages lol!

Now seriously, my employer is my brother he knows about all this he told me to not let myself be fooled by his attitude and take a step forward to show him either he stops with the crap or get beaten.

We have 5 or 6 diferent cop forces in my city each one protects one district and also a big police force for the whole city, the cops in this district are even more dangerous than the criminals because they have a badge and are almost completelly corrupt, if we were where i live the cops are completely professional and this would have been over a long time ago, no beatings no trouble.

I refuse to live in fear i really hate having to bow to a weapon.

[Heliwyr]

Does someone who knows the law is not going to be able to stop a dangerous situation for a citizen take action and go beat the hell out of the criminal to prove the agressor that they can stand up to him and overpower him?

My problem is that i have a homeles guy arround my workplace that wont stop trying to rob me, harase me and threaten me with stabbing me, i have told the cops a couple of times, they have beaten the crap out of him and take his knife but he won't stop, i think i have to be the one to overpower him ad beat him up, show him im not afraid ad that i can take him down, it's basic bully psychology.

You probably don't have to beat him up, but doing something to frighten him may work. Or doing something that would show you are utterly impervious to whatever he says or does.

The trouble is...some bullies don't always respond to being beat up by their target. Sometimes they just don't care and will bother you no matter how many times you try to scare them off. There are some bullies who just want to see what you'll do when they push all your buttons, and when they do, they find whatever you do to be incredibly amusing.

In those cases, the best you can hope for is his removal from the streets since beating him up or trying to overpower him psychologically won't ever be good enough.

And as for the police not doing anything to his morale:

If the cops are as corrupt as you say, then perhaps he finds their attempts to enforce the "law" silly given that they break those same laws all the time. Maybe he thinks they're so low, that they don't even matter, and getting beat up by them is like getting beat up by someone's grandma.

[sid101]

It's a tricky thing knowing what you should do as a man but wanting to maintain civility.

[Glub]

I don't know what living there is like, but I know if citizens were allowed to arm themselves and carry weapons for self defense, I wouldn't start confronting the homeless about much of anything.

Does the guy actually stop you and get in your way? Or does he just shout at you as you walk past?

If he's just shouting at you, toss him a couple pennies and keep walking. Forget about it and be glad you aren't him.

If this guy's just randomly bothering you on the street, odds are he doesn't have much sense of defeat or humiliation. Fighting him wont get you anywhere, especially if he has a knife. It doesn't matter how good you might be at fighting, if he pulls a knife, it only takes 1 slip up for you to get yourself sliced up real good before you have much chance to stop it. Even if you do everything right, there's still a very good chance that he will cut you. That's why you simply don't engage with someone carrying a knife unless you're prepared to go into the ER whether you win or lose.

If he's actually getting in your way, tell him that they set up security cameras in the area to keep a close watch on him because they've had complaints. Odds are he'll get paranoid and eventually leave, not wanting to loiter around in a place where he feels people are watching his every move. Given most urban areas, odds are there are actually security cameras all around him so you wouldn't be entirely lying, you just have to convince him that the people monitoring them know who he is and know that he's there and have been alerted to keep an eye on him.

If that doesn't solve your problem and you're really concerned about this, there are laws against making a threat towards someone else like that, and constantly harassing them on the street. Technically, you could probably drag him through court and get a restraining order if that's what it really came to. So just remember that even in the most ridiculous situation here, there are extreme legal actions you can rest easy knowing are open to you. Even if you don't intend to use them, it does give you the upper hand here.

[MCHRKiller]

I think if this were me and some homeless guy was doing this to me I wouldnt do anything, I would buy I dont know a set of brass knuckles and keychain mace or something. Just ignore him until he gets brave and gets really close to you and if he even touches you empty that can of mace on him and sucker punch him with the knuckles....he probably wont bother you again. lol, but seriously in times like this it is a good idea to have something on you to protect yourself. I have a keychain mace its just a good idea. Most homeless people have various mental disorders. Bi-Polar disorder and Schizophrenia are on the top of the list for the homeless population, which left un-treated these disorders can cause the individual to lash out violently against others, its just something to be aware of.

[rageybug]

Working in law enforcement in Canada for most of my adult life, I can tell you this. Getting into a physical altercation with this guy is the absolute last thing that you want to get involved in. Here are 3 scenarios that could very well happen and the end result.

#1. You hit the guy and he goes down hard, hits his head and ends up dead. You go to jail.

#2. You mentioned he carried a knife but the police took it away. He has shown you that he carries weapons. Having a knife taken away does not mean he has been disarmed. I have seen police officers stabbed with a bicycle spoke. It goes right through a kevlar vest. You can bet he has at least one more weapon, maybe more. You end up dead.

3. You fight with this guy and during the scuffle there is an exchange of bodily fluids (blood, saliva etc.) You end up with a disease. If there are other homeless people in the area, they will see the fight and chances are they will run to the aid of the homeless guy, not you.

I would strongly recommend finding another route to work and keep on the police for assistance.

[AnthonyTCaps]

[QUOTE=sid101]Does someone who knows the law is not going to be able to stop a dangerous situation for a citizen take action and go beat the hell out of the criminal to prove the agressor that they can stand up to him and overpower him?

My problem is that i have a homeles guy arround my workplace that wont stop trying to rob me, harase me and threaten me with stabbing me, i have told the cops a couple of times, they have beaten the crap out of him and take his knife but he won't stop, i think i have to be the one to overpower him ad beat him up, show him im not afraid ad that i can take him down, it's basic bully psychology.[/QU

mace the prick if you mace him and he keeps bugging you mace him again eventually he will realize if i bug this person i will be temporarily blinded and in serious pain and if he has any kind of seance he wont bug you anymore.

[AABatteries]

Stun gun. :hmm3grin2orange:

[smaug]

What would Charles Bronson do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Kind a like WWCB:help:

[Paw Broon]

I would strongly recommend finding another route to work and keep on the police for assistance.
By another route what do you mean? Ain't no options but to confront him i think. And asking police for assistance is like pulling blood from a stone. Maybe different there but here that's how it is here.

[mommy1]

is he actually touching you, pushing you etc.. or is he just putting on a big show around you because he can see how it upsets you?
self defence is not immoral nor is it illegal. but be sure it is self defence. be absolutely certain he is the aggressor and not you. also be prepared to pay the consiquences. you may not be able to beat him and may end up in the hospital or worse. i think a can of mace is a good idea. it will stop him in his tracks and you will be able to get away. good luck on this situation.

[Mith]

Don't know the laws where you live, but I'll tell you what we'd do here.

First, if he's attempting to rob you, that's a felony. Why is he NOT being arrested? Also, don't you have loitering laws in your area? Police don't have to make an arrest, YOU can make a "Pirvate person's" arrest. We have a very simple form. We fill it out, you sign it and the offender goes to jail or is cited.

You can get a restraining order to keep him away from the premises.

ANY person is allowed to use "Reasonable" force when protecting themselves up to deadly force if necessary. You may use as much forse as is reasonably necessary to stop the suspect. NO MORE!

Sounds like a po-dunk police dept. because in this day an age, just "beating" someone is no longer an option. Ya gotta go by the rules!

If you don't get the type of responce you're looking for from the responding officers, call their station and speak with a supervisor... (preferably a lieutenant).

[2xtheman]

use a stun gun on him, then take all his possesions and throw them out far from your place. that will teach him!

[sid101]

Altho i know i can take him down i kinda like the idea of the mace or maybe a baton.

[rageybug]

I think a lot of people are forgetting that Sid is in Caracas, Venezuela, not some town in North America. Different laws, different police.

Sid, by "taking another route", I meant to take a different route to work. Is there a different way you can walk to get there? Avoidance is not the same as cowardess...

[rageybug]

Altho i know i can take him down i kinda like the idea of the mace or maybe a baton.


Don't take anything to a fight that you are not prepared to defend against. If he gets a hold of the baton, can you defend yourself?

[gm72]

Seriously folks let's not encourage violence. Is there not enough violence in the world already?

If I were the homeless person I would be begging you to hit me because I would OWN you after that. I'd go to the newspapers and your life would quickly be upside-down Are we really serious that you are thinking of beating up a homeless person? COME ON!

Carry mace or a stun gun and use it to defend yourself if you have to.

No more discussions encouraging violence.

[Wild Turkey]

Many peoples views on what constitutes self defense are different, but the law in your state is very clear about it, look it up tonight and go to work on monday knowing exactly what you can and cannot do. In a lot of cases self defense laws are stricter than you would think.
I agree, mace or a stun gun are the best option. They require no skill or strength to use, and they work well in a defensive situation. I also agree with making sure you are not the aggressor, it can be hard to think clearly when someone is pushing your buttons, but if you dont you will end up looking "noble" from the courthouse and or jail.

[sid101]

I checked legislation and i am fine as long as i only reduce him and not continue to beat him after he's on the ground, so thats good to know, only hit him as much as it's needed to take him to the ground.

I know hes got a knife and i can defend against it without much problem (extensive training in defense against armed assailants). The baton well, stopping a baton with bare hands it's very hard but my baton has a litle metal cable that goes locked in my wrist so he needs to cut off my hand if he wants to take it.

I really really dont want to use violence but to be honest i live in a very dangerous city specially where i work, and people (scumbags, crackaddicts and so on) try to rob me (as well as to any other person in Caracas) at least once a month, i am tired, exausted, angry and fed up as to why when we have over 100 thousand armed police oficers in this city i still have to beat up people constantly just to not get robbed, and i trully hate violence let me add!.

I love my country ¡, i live in the most beautyfull place in the world and people from all over the world come here just to see this:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
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Wouldn't you like to dive in those waters and see a million fish just like the ones you keep in your aquariums? Wouldnt you like to visit us? well many people do and some go back home after getting robbed in the streets, some friends of mine come from abroad to visit me and do some traveling in Venezuela once in a while, one of them got robbed one time and he told me "i just lost 500 dolars i could spend diving in los roques (check los roques in google altho one of the pictures if from there) i dont blame you or any of the people i have met but it's a shame they ruin it for so many of you".

I wish i could calm down and think with ease and coldness but i cannot do it when a single man with a knife in the middle of about 20-25 people waiting the bus threaten me and everyone that he could rob any of us like he just doesnt care about stabbing anyone.

[Lady Hobbs]

Wow. Everyone wants to jump in and beat up on this unfortunate homeless guy without knowing anything about him.

For one thing, more than half the homeless out there have mental issues. He may not be aware of what he's even doing or can not help himself. In the US, due to cut-backs years ago, our mental sanitariums were closed down and the people kicked to the streets. Many of those our veterans.

But, this person is on private property and if not wanted there, he needs to be removed. Since your brother owns the property, your brother needs to file a restraining order to keep him away from his property. Then if the homeless guy comes around, call the police. And keep right on calling them every time he comes around until they decide to do something with him.

PS.......Call the cops daily and tell them you want your parking lot patroled and what time of the day in particular. (Like, when you are leaving work.) If this guy is up to no good he will go somewhere other than where the cops are.

[loachcoach]

If someone is threatening me with bodily harm, the last thing I'm concerned with is his background. If I'm unable to retreat to safety I will have no choice but to "assist him to the ground."

[Mvjnz]

It's never moral to beat someone up. Even if the guy is a criminal, it's not moral to beat him up. Moral is to let law enforcers deal with it, but you don't seem to have any of those.

I'd contact whoever is in charge of the police in your area and make a formal complaint, if that doesn't work take it further, make sure the asshole cops on their little powertrip and fired and can never work as cops every again.

Personally, I'd just go a different way so I wouldn't have to walk past the person who's making the threats.

[Glub]

I've also been trained in unarmed defense against weapons as well.

The first thing they taught us is that you should never put yourself in a position where you will have to use it.

The second thing they taught us is that as long as they're holding the weapon, they have the advantage because the weapon is more of a threat to you than you are to them and really limits your options.

Knives aren't exactly easy to disarm or control safely. There's a reason why cops have protection and plenty of weapons they can use from a distance to deal with them rather than taking them on at close range.

So, IMO, it's a stupid fight to pick, and not your business to be dealing with it. You have a lot more to lose than you could ever possibly gain, and despite your training, the fact is you can still easily get hurt, like many trained individuals have been.

[gm72]

Enough already. I can't believe we are debating this. Thread closed. Think with at least with a modicum of maturity.