Can't keep up

[allsmiles]

I'm a noob, and I've searched through some of the threads to find one similar to what I am needing to ask, but didn't quite find what I was looking for.

I have a predatory tank. 1 needlefish, 1 oscar, and one dinosaur bichir. They have all been in together for a while and they do not bother or even really acknowledge that the others are there.

I was told that the needlefish will only eat other smaller fish and so I've been buying rosy red minnows (fat heads).

However, even though I supplement the bichir and the oscar's diet with a large variety of other food (glass worms, tubifex worms, flake food, cichlid pellets, bloodworms, beef hearts etc) they still eat the minnows, which would be fine, but they are eating me out of house and home. The needlefish eats maybe one or 2 a day, but I have to by 80, twice a week. At 12 cents a feeder, this adds up to approximately $75/month just in feederfish.

I don't want to starve the needlefish, but I can't keep this up. I had no idea that they would be so insatiable.

Last week, I started a 10 gal with 1 male molly and 5 females to try to supplement their diet, reduce risk of disease, as well as add a bit of variety because I've heard that fish cannot thrive on one type of feeder fish alone and the only types of feeders that any pet store near me sells is rosy reds, goldfish (which I've heard are horrible for your fish) and ghost shrimp (33 cents each) However, I'm not sure this will be enough.

Does anyone have any other ideas? I don't want to get rid of any of my fish. My local pet store suggested setting up yet another tank and buying 100 or so feeders at a time and putting them in there and only putting 4 or 5 in the tank a day, but 1) I don't want to set up another tank because I have already spent so much on two tanks so far and 2) I'm thinking that the bichir and oscar will still beat the needlefish to the minnows.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[btate617]

I'm a noob, and I've searched through some of the threads to find one similar to what I am needing to ask, but didn't quite find what I was looking for.

I have a predatory tank. 1 needlefish, 1 oscar, and one dinosaur bichir. They have all been in together for a while and they do not bother or even really acknowledge that the others are there.

I was told that the needlefish will only eat other smaller fish and so I've been buying rosy red minnows (fat heads).

However, even though I supplement the bichir and the oscar's diet with a large variety of other food (glass worms, tubifex worms, flake food, cichlid pellets, bloodworms, beef hearts etc) they still eat the minnows, which would be fine, but they are eating me out of house and home. The needlefish eats maybe one or 2 a day, but I have to by 80, twice a week. At 12 cents a feeder, this adds up to approximately $75/month just in feederfish.

I don't want to starve the needlefish, but I can't keep this up. I had no idea that they would be so insatiable.

Last week, I started a 10 gal with 1 male molly and 5 females to try to supplement their diet, reduce risk of disease, as well as add a bit of variety because I've heard that fish cannot thrive on one type of feeder fish alone and the only types of feeders that any pet store near me sells is rosy reds, goldfish (which I've heard are horrible for your fish) and ghost shrimp (33 cents each) However, I'm not sure this will be enough.

Does anyone have any other ideas? I don't want to get rid of any of my fish. My local pet store suggested setting up yet another tank and buying 100 or so feeders at a time and putting them in there and only putting 4 or 5 in the tank a day, but 1) I don't want to set up another tank because I have already spent so much on two tanks so far and 2) I'm thinking that the bichir and oscar will still beat the needlefish to the minnows.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.



Is a needlefish the same as a gar??
If so I have never owned one, but have known a few people who have and as far as I know the only thing they feed was live food. I don't know could you get one off of live food and onto pellet only,? Buying feeders from lfs is not only expensive but it is probably only a matter of time before you introduce something into your tank that you do not want.

Brian

[allsmiles]

I believe the needlefish is similar to a gar, but not actually a gar. They don't get nearly as big. I have a pic, but i am new and don't know how to add pics to threads yet.

[Lady Hobbs]

I guess it isn't working. yikes That's way too much money to spend on one fish's food when you have others to feed, as well. Having that fish almost means having two more tanks...........one for the fish and one for his live feeders. I think he'd have to go.

[allsmiles]

13442 This is my needlefish. He kinda reminds me of a humming bird. I just read somewhere that they are more closely related to flying fish than they are gars.

[btate617]

What about x-large floating pellets? Will they go for that.

Brian

[allsmiles]

the needlefish won't eat anything but feeders. the other two will eat anything pretty much. But it seems no matter how much I feed them, they still eat the feeders.

[Wild Turkey]

My local petsmart sells them. Ive never kept them but i hear they are picky eaters, can be skitish, and you have to basically cover all the sides with plants so it doesnt run into them and bend the its fragile nose. Always sounded like more trouble than its worth.

[allsmiles]

he is truly an interesting fish to look at, but has little personality. I don't want to give him up yet though. I've also read that they do better in schools of 3 or more, however, if they breed, the eggs are poisonous to all of the other fish in the tank. I'm not sure about that one though.

[troy]

You are correct that they aren't gars. Why not try feeding it things like earthworms, crickets, and mealworms.

[allsmiles]

I've tried just about everything. he won't eat anything but minnows. I want him to eat them, and he doesn't eat that many, I just don't want to have to spend so much on the feederfish because the others eat them so fast. I don't have room for 2 big tanks either, nor the start-up funds. Does anyone know of a way to quickly breed feeders so that I can at least maybe slow down the rate at which I have to buy feeders?

[toddnbecka]

There's no way to keep the other fish from eating the feeders. It's instinct, and has nothing to do with how well-fed they are. Forget breeding them, they'll never be able to reproduce and grow quickly enough to stay ahead of the consumption rate. Best bet would be to get rid of the Oscar and feed the bicher sinking pellets before dropping in the feeders.

[Northernguy]

There's no way to keep the other fish from eating the feeders. It's instinct, and has nothing to do with how well-fed they are. Forget breeding them, they'll never be able to reproduce and grow quickly enough to stay ahead of the consumption rate. Best bet would be to get rid of the Oscar and feed the bicher sinking pellets before dropping in the feeders.
Unfortunately I have to agree with toddnbecka.
You will have to do something soon.Your tank is not big enough to house all those fish together.
You would need many guppies having fry to keep up with your gar diet and a few more small tanks.

[rageybug]

A simple sollution here is to keep the fish apart at feeding time. Use a divider or a piece of glass to keep the needle fish on one side, the oscar and bichir on the other. Drop a few feeders in for the needle fish and once he has eaten, remove the divider. It can be a little tricky getting the fish seperated the right way and you may need to use your net to chase them to the right sides but it will fix the issue and you can keep all of your fish.

A less expensive option for feder fish is to buy minnows from a bait shop. The are way cheaper than most LFS prices. They are just as safe as LFS feeders in terms of sickness/disease too. This is how we fed our pirahna.

[allsmiles]

Really? I've always been under the assumption that bait shop minnows are not cared for as well as lfs and are way more likely to carry diseases. I've also been told that many of them are soaked in dyes and chemicals to make them smell more appealing to lake/pond fish.

I will look for a larger, used fish tank (many people upgrade or move and sell their tanks for cheap) and move my breeding mollies in there, plus add a few more. I know they won't be able to keep up, but I'm willing to try it if it will help a little.

If I do that, I can use my 10 gal to place feeders in to quarantine them for a while before dumping them into the big tank.

Or better yet, I can keep the 10 gal for breeding mollies and purchase a large used tank if I can find one cheap enough and transfer the bichir and oscar in there and continue their diet of bloodworms, beef hearts, flake, pellet, etc etc and only toss a few feeders a day in there as treats.

Any thoughts on this?

[Wild Turkey]

Just to give you a good idea, you are looking at quite a large tank. 75 just for an oscar full grown, and im sure you want a tank they wont outgrow...again:hmm3grin2orange: so even though im not super-familiar with the polypterpus senegalus bichir care, Id say you are looking at easily 100+ gallons

[sid101]

I dont try to hurt any feelings but isnt people who call fish by their latin names a litle obnoxious? lol

I think you chose two very hungry fish and whoul separate them so you can feed them easily, i would separate them in at least 80 gallon tank each and have two 20 to 30 gallon tanks for breeding mollies and guppies separatelly, i think 1 male and 10 females for each breeding aquarium should be enough to start, give or take 1 or 2 weeks for the breeder tanks to start filling the water with love and you should be set up.

[toddnbecka]

What size tank do you have them in now? An adult Oscar needs at least a 75 gallon tank, and that would be somewhat crowded for swimming space with the needlefish sharing it. It would be simpler to get another large tank for the needlefish. It would most likely appreciate some floating plants like hornwort or even duckweed for cover as well, which the Oscar would eat or destroy.
Mollies will produce new fry roughly once/month. A 10 gallon won't house very many adults, much less allow growout space for dozens of fry. You'd be bette off with a pond (children's wading pool) for the mollies, and start with at least a dozen females.

[allsmiles]

They are in a 55 gal tank. The oscar was a gift. I never would have chose him for myself. I am keeping my eyes open for a larger used tank that maybe someone around my town is trying to get rid of. I already found a used 20 gal to move my mollies in. I have 6 of them in a 10 gallon right now. 1-m 5-f.

[rageybug]

Really? I've always been under the assumption that bait shop minnows are not cared for as well as lfs and are way more likely to carry diseases. I've also been told that many of them are soaked in dyes and chemicals to make them smell more appealing to lake/pond fish.


Where I live, in NW Ontario, fishing is huge. Bait shops often run out of minnows. Most minnows I get are maybe a day or two out of the pond/lake so they don't sit in a petshop/LFS tank for days or weeks at a time. Cool water usually means less parasite and sickness (I know that is not always the cae) and the water is always being changed in minnow tanks so I would suspect that they are a little safer. I have never ever heard of minnows being soaked in anything to help catch fish. Maybe a garlic spray before fishing with the minnow but never while they are in a storage tank.

[Wild Turkey]

I dont try to hurt any feelings but isnt people who call fish by their latin names a litle obnoxious? lol

After about 15 seconds of research i realized that dinosaur bichir was a confusing term, so i used the scientific name. Giving the scientific name makes sure we are all on the same page.

I dont want to hurt any feelings here, but dont you find rude, unnecessary comments a little obnoxious?

[HomaridNoob6]

I dont try to hurt any feelings but isnt people who call fish by their latin names a litle obnoxious? lol

Many fish don't have common names, so referring to them by their latin name may be necessary. Also many fish that arent the same species can share a single common name, so referring to a fish by its latin name can help avoid a lot of confusion. I don't find it obnoxious, I look at the latin name and if I don't know it, I'm still able to look up the fish without any misconceptions about what it might be. I mean, if i say i have a sunfish, that could mean a lot of things, maybe I have a giant ocean sunfish, maybe I have a bluegill or Crappie. But if i say i have a Lepomis Cyanellus and it's a sunfish, then you can easily find out what I'm talking about.

[rageybug]

I dont want to hurt any feelings here, but dont you find rude, unnecessary comments a little obnoxious?



OMG... too funny!

[Lady Hobbs]

I dont want to hurt any feelings here, but dont you find rude, unnecessary comments a little obnoxious?

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

[gm72]

I dont want to hurt any feelings here, but dont you find rude, unnecessary comments a little obnoxious?

Classic.
Warranted.
True.

A fish that one person may know as "X" may actually be "Y." The only way to determine that actual identity of the fish therefore would be to use the Latin name.

[Northernguy]

hehe I'm sure sid101 will get used to it!
It is neccesary at times.

[sid101]

I tend to be a litle rude and obnoxious myself at times i take it in good spirits.

[allsmiles]

Ok so... I started 2 of my own feeder tanks to help with the high demand of feeders from my predatory fish. One is a 10 gallon that I already had. I put Mollies in there and there are already baby fishies in there, yay! I found a 20 gallon on craigsllist for a good price, that already came with many guppies and a pleco (I will have to move the pleco eventually, but for now he is ok).

Instead of buying soooo many rosy reds from my lfs and dumping them all in at the same time and having it be a free for all for my 3 predatory fish, I have been putting in one of my guppies at a time (that 20 gallon was already crowded when I got it) and I thought that the needlefish has got to be faster than the bichir and the oscar, so I decided that I would put in 1-3 feeders a day (instead of 80 at once twice a week) and if he was hungry enough, he would get to them before the other two.

This has worked soooo well! I am excited too because I actually get to watch Gary (the needlefish) eat now. I never got to see him do it before. This should save me a LOT of money as well as encourage the bichir and oscar to eat the other food that I put in there that is much healthier for them.

Thanks to all who gave advice!