I am itching to try the dark side!

[Demi ^_^]

I'm getting an itch for trying at saltwater! I have tried putting a bandaid on the itch - but I just scratch it off seconds later!

I am even starting looking on eBay for light fixtures and equipment suitable for S/W!

Dad isn't making it easier "Yeah Demi! Your next tank HAS to be saltwater!"


If I do go that route, it'll be a very slow process... I have already divided my money into 2 safe places - 1 is my S/W savings, the otehr F/W savings (Getting pretty technical huh? ;))

I'll be getting the equpiment slowly, so I don't go broke at once..

Now for questions:

Should I do it? :hmm3grin2orange:

The tank I want for my first salwater is 34g/130L.. 2ftx18"x18".. Is that a good size?

Are their any particle brands and types of equipment I should know about before I go hunting?

AND any tips, warnings or comments before I get excited to start my journey? :cat:

[kaianuanu]

First of all, congrats, you got the itch that brings all that FW can't give you! If i were you, id just buy all the stuff i can with my money, if you don't, the itch will become an excrutiating burn. but anyway, go for it, and i'd go w/ a 55g (U.S. gallons, i noticed you're down under 4'Lx13"Wx21"H) not the 34g.

[sid101]

I just got started to saltwater too! in the thread i started:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Some very nice people gave me advice and i think they will advice you too, the thread is now 4 pages long so maybe you would like to check it so you can see what has been talked about so far, you check mine i check yours and we get double the info!

I really can't give you much advice on my own since i'm a novice in saltwater.

[fraggle]

I'm hearing you honey!!
I've got that itch too, but hubby will go nuts if I get another tank (I just bought another 2 off ebay, both small, 20G but hey!)
Will have to wait til we finish the extension. Give me heaps of time to research.

That's the only advice I can give you is RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH. That's the advice that's been given to me, LOL.

[Demi ^_^]

LOL :))

I am only 14 and don't have a job as of yet, I don't get money unless I do alot of work, so for me its all about adding up 5cnt coins and 5 dollar notes! :))

A 34g is the best I can afford and the only size my parents will allow at the moment LOL!

I also really like the dimensions, for its long enough for a fair bit of messing around, its wide enough to stick in more corals and its high enough for rock to be stacked up higher..


I might have a look around for something with the same width/height but with a tiny bit more length actually..

[Demi ^_^]

Thanks Sid and will do mate ;))

Don't worry Fraggle, research is all I have been doing all week because I have dreaded, cruddy cronic tonsillitus!! LOL

[sid101]

Saltwater newbies united!!!!

[Demi ^_^]

How many kilos of live rock would I need? For a 34g?

[fraggle]

Thanks Sid and will do mate ;))

Don't worry Fraggle, research is all I have been doing all week because I have dreaded, cruddy cronic tonsillitus!! LOL

Poor you!

I got tonsillitis bad a kid, got it about 8 times in 5 months. Dr said if I got it again he'd take them out. I've never had it since! LOL, must have been scared off.

Save your pennies that's for sure, all the SW stuff seems sooo expensive!
Mind you with Dad giving you a push to get one, you could ask him to match you a dollar for each you save or even a dollar for each 2 or 5 you save? Worth a shot!:hmm3grin2orange:

[Friendly]

Good Luck thumbs2:

[AABatteries]

Wow, you're lucky your dad supports you doing SW, mine was against it for a while.

RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH! If you start the tank within the next month or two, you will not have done enough research.

I'll make up the best possible equipment list for you(probably $1000+) and an affordable one too.

I recently started my first SW tank 20g high, everything is going smoothly so far. Except one thing, I think my ammonia test took a crap on me. -.- I won a light on eBay, that would've worked for your tank too. :hmm3grin2orange: Only set me back $85, rather than the same thing for $150 new.

[Demi ^_^]

I told my dad awhile ago, I would go into SW if he payed for the lighting and live rock... and he said he would think about it.. The lighting is going to set me back $140+, so that'll take a load of my back... If he DOES buy it...

Here is the lighting I wanted, is it enough?

Aqualiner - Double Compact Reflector – 24”
2x55watt bulbs = $140.00 (2 year warranty)



Yeah Fraggle, I get tonsillitus ALL the time and bad... My right tonsil actually has gaunges in it this time and its covered in... Ok.. won't go into detail; it'll make peoples puke all over their screen LOL

[Demi ^_^]

Any links/sites/reccomendations/lists (AA :19: :)))) appreciated! I have HOURS to burn til my next appointment at the doctors!!! LOL

[AABatteries]

Here's one list.

The great one(without a sump)...

Light: 24" 255W Outer Orbit Pro Series MH/T5 ($500-$550)
Skimmer: AquaC Remora w/maxi-jet($150-$180) OR Tunze 9002($150-$170)
Flow: 2 Koralia Nanos($30-$40 each)
LR: 35-45lbs (usually $5-10/lb)
Substrate: 30-40lbs live sand(no clue, varies depending on location)
Heater: 150w Visi-therm Stealth($20-$25)
Fuge: Aqua-Fuge 2 Hang-on Refugium Large by CPR Aquatic ($140-$170)

Total: ~$1300

Got a question, what kind of coral, if any, are you planning on keeping? Just need to know so I can make a choice for the lighting on the more "affordable" plan. :hmm3grin2orange:

EDIT: A good book to get would be: The New Marine Aquarium by Michael S. Paletta or The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert M. Fenner (2nd Edition)

[Demi ^_^]

How many watts do I need though? Say If I got high light coral? I thought 3w/p/g was pretty darn good! LOL

I'll have a look on eBay, the world is cheaper there and look for the brands and stuff you listed... Lordy..

[Demi ^_^]

Oh and what is lbs??

[sid101]

lbs is pounds wich is 453 grams or 0.453 kilos if you want to know how many pounds is something just multiply by 0.453 if you want to knwo how many kilos is something you got in pound just divide by the same number (0.453).

[AABatteries]

3wpg for a reef is medium-low, closer to low. For high light(sps) you will need at least 6wpg(I think that is the minimum for high light. But if you can get 3wpg, you will be able to keep most softies and some lps.

If you look on ebay, do NOT buy an odyssea fixturem they have tendencies to overheat and melt down or catch fire. To get high light for the 34g, you almost have to go MH.

Anyways, I could ramble on for a long while about lights(which are good, the wattage, the coral types you could have, etc.). lbs. = pounds. I'll let you convert them to kg, I'm too lazy. :P

EDIT: Thanks for sharing that sid.

[Demi ^_^]

Thanks LOL, lbs and pounds - its a bit different!

AA, I don't LIKE these bulky-funny-looking skimmers :)) Whats a sump? Will it allow me not to have a skimmer? Or atleast hide one? Coz, I really don't want a bulky thing like the skimmers I saw on eBay to be so viweable in a reef setup!

[AABatteries]

I can almost guarantee you would rather have a HOB skimmer over an in-sump skimmer. Sumps are pretty much just a place to put all the equipment in so its not visible. They require, plumbing, pumps, baffles, sometimes they have a fuge, etc. I'm no expert when it comes it comes to them. :hmm3grin2orange: Here's a pic of one.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
That sump is pretty much empty, here's one that is loaded like most.
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Demi ^_^]

Okkaaayyy <changes mind about sump> They skimmers are actually kinda kewl LOL jks

The light is what I am REALLY freaking out about LOL, I was head over heals when I thought I was gunna buy one that costs 140 bucks... I'll have to think... and hope my dad helps me to pay for some stuff... I shall suck up to him tonight LOL

[AABatteries]

Lighting can easily be the most expensive part of a reef aquarium. I still haven't gotten over the fact that I got an amazing deal on the light I got. [x

[Demi ^_^]

How many watts is your light?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I'm going to back you up a few steps in the lighting. You need to get away from WPG thinking with SW, it just doesn't work. You can't classify corals in quite the same way you classify plants.

You have low light corals, medium light corals, and intense light corals, and none of those have anything to do with WPG, they have everything to do with bulb intensity.

There are a few corals you can grow under Normal Output Fluorescent bulbs like Palythoas, and Mushrooms. Next you bump up to the Power Compacts for most leathers (aka soft corals) and a number of LPS. Then you are into the T5HO bulbs and Metal Halides for 99.9% of the SPS corals out there. I would not recommend you jump right into SPS corals for your first tank, they simply are not beginner corals. While the amount of light you have does help somewhat, the intensity is a much bigger issue in marine tanks.

To give you a perfect example of this. I had a 75gal tank that had 2x175w Metal Halides on it and I could grow absolutely any SPS coral in that tank I wanted to. When I first started that 75gal, I actually had a 4x65w Power Compact fixture on it. That meant I went from having 260w to 350 watts. That only bumped my WPG ratio up by just over 1 WPG, but I went from being able to grow only leathers and a couple of LPS, to being able to grow SPS. In my current tank, I started with 4x96w Power Compacts giving me a total of 384w for just over 3 WPG and the only 2 SPS I could grow was Montipora capricornus and Samacora because they are two of the least demanding SPS corals for light. I now have 8x39w T5HO bulbs on my tank. That actually brings me down to 312w but I am growing the Monti caps and the Samacora in addition to an encrusting Montipora, Montipora digitata, and a Blunt tip Birds nest -Seriatopora caliendrum. So you can see from that last example that WPG really doesn't come into play that much.

[AABatteries]

Thank you ILMGB. [=

The light I got was a 130w PC.

[Demi ^_^]

Thanks guys, I am learning more by the second! Lighting by far is going to be my biggest issue by far, for in Australia we don't have the same types of bulbs/etc...

I don't understand completely however... How do i know what are soft corals/hard corals? I can't find any websites that are giving me enough information about lighting and coral needs, does anyone have a site or link they could post for me? :)

[AABatteries]

Soft corals are made of soft tissue. And hard coral are made of a hard tissue. That's really how I know how to explain them. Hopefully somebody else can give you more help.

[Demi ^_^]

But, like with plants for example, tehir are sites like plantgeek and stuff, with ALL the plants listed... Is their something like that for corals?? you know so it says the lighting requirements/etc?

Its had to word out lol sorry :)

[kaybee]

Both types have soft tissue but hard corals (stoney corals) have calcium-based skeletons and soft corals don't.

However certain hard corals, particularly LPS's (large-polyp, stoney) have polyps which can totally obscure the skeletons and so only the soft parts of the hard coral can be seen (blastomussa, various euphyllia species, nemenzophyllia, etc). Many of the SPS (small-polyp, stoney) corals are obvious hard corals, most being reef-building types.

Some soft corals have 'calcium' bodies or slivers in them for structural support, but not skeletons.

After some research (and first hand observation) distinquishing hard and soft corals is fairly easy for the most part.

[Demi ^_^]

Oh, and I may be getting the actual tank, this one:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Next week! Because we are going to the beach for a holiday and we could probably pick it up on the way back, I am going to discuss it with mum later :)

[kaianuanu]

i hate that america couldn't just go over to metric

[AABatteries]

Cool. Looks like acrylic, which scratchs easily, and it looks it already has quite a bit of scratches.

EDIT: @ Kai. America always has to be different in some way or another. Being in a 4 trillion dollar debt because of obama is not one of the one's I enjoy though.

[Demi ^_^]

Its not acrylic :) Don't worry, I know this guy, I bought my 3ft off of him (The 42g) a year ago. His pictures don't do any justice for what the tanks really look like :) I wouldn't be wanting to buy it if it had scratches :11:

I am just gonna let the tank sit for ages until I am all researched up! LOL

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Demi, this may help you understand Stony Corals
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

There are also a handful of corals that seem to not fit in the category they are in. For example, the Pipe Organ Coral is technically a Soft coral, however many are tempted to class it as a LPS coral which it is not. If you read that article above, you will see that the division between SPS and LPS is really an artificial one, however there are some LPS that some people think are SPS, Galaxia and Short Tentecal Plate corals are 2 of those, as well as Pagoda corals.

[Demi ^_^]

Thanks ILMGB! I have already read over it once, but I'll read over it again just to top up my brain LOL

Live Rock: 18 kilos
Substrate: 18+ kilos (Crushed Coral)

Thats about what I'd need? ^

Oh, and could I get my live rock from here, IYO, do you think its a good source...

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I may buy 2-3 kilos worth at first (Which is like 12 pounds, ain't it?) Just to see if the rock is good and big enough, so that I know the source is safe enough to buy from...



Now to research and see what the best equipment is for the job! I am gettign REALLY excited! LOLOLOL!

[Demi ^_^]

^^^

Do you think the link above would be a good place to get my Live Rock?

AND is Crushed Coral a good choice for the substrate - I want about 1.5"-2".

[AABatteries]

No clue about the LR.

In my tank I have crushed coral(mainly cause fo the low cost). If I did not have, I would be screwed. Even with it, my pH is only 7.8 So if you have a low-ish pH, you will probably want to go that path. And if your pH is fine I don't see a problem either way.

[Demi ^_^]

My pH for my freshwater tanks is ALWAYS a steady 7....

Looks like I'll be getting that as the substrate then... Going to the beach in... umm... 2 DAYS! Yayyy! Can't wait... I am gonna hunt for driftwood the whole first day while we setup, because if I can get a hold of some good pieces, I coudl sell them on eBay :19: Driftwood is a good seller - people will pay loads for a tiny piece! I can't believe why, particulary because Australia is an island, surrounded by ocean!


I don't know whether to get Live Rock from that source or not :S

[labnjab]

My pH for my freshwater tanks is ALWAYS a steady 7.... IF your using ro water, your ph is usually at 6 before adding salt mix and most salt mixes and live rock will buffer your ph up to the necessary level depending on what you keep you sg. I'm using instant ocean and my ph has been fairly steady at 8.2-8.4 (can't remember) and ALK is steady at 9.

I would skip the crushed coral and get a good sand, or use a mixture of the both. Crushed coral tends to trap derutis

[Demi ^_^]

About the RO water... Do I NEED to use that?? I don't even know what it is! I asked my dad and he said we could just use rainwater... Would that work as well?

Ok, I'll look for a sand then, although if I can't find any, I'll be sticking with my crushed coral! LOL

Does anyone have a list of reccomended, good skimmers... I don't want to go cheapie on a bad skimmer, as I know someone who bought a 15 buck skimmer off eBay and was very upset with the bulky thing when it arrived...

I would really prefer a less bulky skimmer, so my options seem limited LOL

[labnjab]

Unless your on some desert island in the middle of no where, I would say no on the rain water. There's just so many toxins that can be in rainwater that I wouldn't chance it.

Ro is reverse osmosis and DI is deionized and with the 2 its as pure as you can get and with a saltwater tank you want it pure (some people get away with using tap, but most don't and get major hair algae problems, ask cocoa_pleco to show you his old 55).

You can either buy it from walmart (green topped walmart brand bottles which say ro/di) or you can buy a filter of your own for around $100. I started by using the walmart and recently bought this ro/unit, and it is well worth the investment. Much nicer then buying 10 gallons of water weekly [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Demi ^_^]

Oh :( I won't be allowed to buy an RO unit... and we don't have a 'wall-mart' in Aus.. Is it really that bad using tapwater though? Of course, I will try as much as possible to see if I can get RO water, but I honestly don't think I will be able too...

[labnjab]

Oh :( I won't be allowed to buy an RO unit... and we don't have a 'wall-mart' in Aus.. Is it really that bad using tapwater though? Of course, I will try as much as possible to see if I can get RO water, but I honestly don't think I will be able too...

Can you get distilled? Its not as good as ro but is much better then tap. I strongly suggest not using tap

[Demi ^_^]

I'll ask my dad this afternoon when he is finished work and then I'll get back to you on that ;)

Caught up in the excitement of more FISH, I have made a list of a CUC...


CLEAN UP CREW:

10x Nassarius Snails
10x Nerite Snails
10x Cerith Snails
8x Trochus Snails
5x Red-legged Hermit Crabs
1x Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

Do you think that is too many CUC for a 34g?

[AABatteries]

Sounds good. You may want to get some electric blue hermits if you can. I'm currently using tap water and I'm surprised how long I had to wait for algae to show up. But, I will be getting and RO/DI unit for my b-day. Oh, and if you want to keep coral, you will NEED distilled or RO/DI water.

[cocoa_pleco]

I'm currently using tap water and I'm surprised how long I had to wait for algae to show up.

thats the way it was for me, then...

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[AABatteries]

O.O Lovely. And I have a month till I get my RO/DI unit.

[Miltonic]

Im using RO/DI water and I still got hair algae, I can't imagine how bad it would of gotten if I would of used tapwater.

Im happy that its almost all gone now :)

edit: just looked at cocoas pic o.o

[labnjab]

Im using RO/DI water and I still got hair algae, I can't imagine how bad it would of gotten if I would of used tapwater.

Im happy that its almost all gone now :)

edit: just looked at cocoas pic o.o

The algae will come and go several times as the tank matures, we've been through 2 hair algae stages (finishing up the 2nd stage now) and 2 diatom stages, and I think I see a 2nd cyno stage showing up on the sand, but I've sucked most of it up.

[kaybee]

Minimizing the photo-period during the early stages (until photosynthetic livestock is added to the tank) and utilizing phosphate control measures (granular ferric oxide/GFO, etc) from the very start, when combined with RO/DI water useage, are very effective at preventing green hair algae from even gaining a foot hold in the system.

For clarification, does the "2nd hair algae stage" mean that all of the initial algae ('1st stage') died off and vanished rendering the tank hair algae-free, but then after sometime algae reappeared?

[labnjab]

For clarification, does the "2nd hair algae stage" mean that all of the initial algae ('1st stage') died off and vanished rendering the tank hair algae-free, but then after sometime algae reappeared?

Yep, it was gone a few months, and then started growing again

[Miltonic]

My hair algae is finally all gone now but im waiting for that third cyano stage to come, I wonder how long it'll be till that happens.

btw, where would you get granular ferric oxide/GFO to put in the tank?

[rageybug]

^^^

Do you think the link above would be a good place to get my Live Rock?




When selecting LR, I feel that one of the most important aspects of good rock is how pourus it is. The more holes/caves in the rock, the greater the surface area will be. An increased surface area means a larger surface for bacteria growth, which means a much more efficient filter.

Think of a brick vs a kitchen sponge of the same size. The brick has 6 flat sides, the sponge has the 6 sides plus all the little pockets in it. The sponge probably has 3-4 times the surface area of the brick.

[kaybee]

...where would you get granular ferric oxide/GFO to put in the tank?

Online or at the LFS. Sold as Rowaphos, Phosban, Pura Phoslock, Phosar, etc.

Best utilized in a reactor.