ammonia / bacterial bloom

[simple68]

Hi. newby to the forum so pls dont flame me if i do something wrong :P

Have been keeping goldfish for a couple of years in an outdoor pond with no problems but had to revert to a tank when i moved house (pond to be installed soon).

Now a couple of weeks back my girlfriend decided to do me a favor and clean my tank. needless to say everything got pulled apart and scrubbed and the gravel got a super vac.

Now that the tank is trying to cycle again i have super ammonia levels plus a good dose of bacterial bloom.

One day after work the fish were quite stressed gasping at the water red gills etc.

Living in the tank are 4 comets 2 x 3" + 1 x 2" + 1 x 1" and 2 Orandas about an inch each.

I gave the tank a good dose of Ammo lock and changed about 30% of the water.

I have put them on a diet and am now only feeding them every couple of days as there are plants in the tank as well to stop them starving. They complain to me every time I walk past but are living otherwise happily.

I am testing the ammonia and it is totally off the chart (dark blue) when i dilute the water 1 part to 4 parts clean and then test it i am getting 4ppm. So the source water must be at about 20ppm.

All gasping has stopped and red gills have gone away.

I have not added anything else to the tank in about a week.


Now:

1 - has the ammonia turned to ammonium which is giving the high reading but otherwise not harming my fish?

2 - is the 15-20% weekly change too much or not enough at the moment?

3 - should i ignore the ammonia / blooming and just leave the cycling take it course?

4 - should i ditch the girlfriend for one that wont mess with my stuff?


thanks for tips.


Simon

[Wild Turkey]

Hi. newby to the forum so pls dont flame me if i do something wrong :P

Have been keeping goldfish for a couple of years in an outdoor pond with no problems but had to revert to a tank when i moved house (pond to be installed soon).

Now a couple of weeks back my girlfriend decided to do me a favor and clean my tank. needless to say everything got pulled apart and scrubbed and the gravel got a super vac.
Ooops!
Now that the tank is trying to cycle again i have super ammonia levels plus a good dose of bacterial bloom.
Yup, mini cycle.
One day after work the fish were quite stressed gasping at the water red gills etc.

Living in the tank are 4 comets 2 x 3" + 1 x 2" + 1 x 1" and 2 Orandas about an inch each.
Tank size?
I gave the tank a good dose of Ammo lock and changed about 30% of the water.
Personally, i never use the stuff, it has been known to mess with test results and doesnt do anthing for fish that water changes wont do more accurately and effectively, as long as you are testing.
I have put them on a diet and am now only feeding them every couple of days as there are plants in the tank as well to stop them starving. They complain to me every time I walk past but are living otherwise happily.
Continue That
I am testing the ammonia and it is totally off the chart (dark blue) when i dilute the water 1 part to 4 parts clean and then test it i am getting 4ppm. So the source water must be at about 20ppm.
Sounds like you need a new test kit, fish cant live in 20ppm ammonia, ever. The test kits will become more concentrated after repeated use if not shaken vigorously enough before each use. This sounds like what has happened.
All gasping has stopped and red gills have gone away.

I have not added anything else to the tank in about a week.


Now:

1 - has the ammonia turned to ammonium which is giving the high reading but otherwise not harming my fish?
Theres no way to say for sure, the test kit tests for both, but not separately.
2 - is the 15-20% weekly change too much or not enough at the moment?
Once you have an accurate test kit, test, and then waterchange the ammonia and nitrite down to around 1.0ppm daily
3 - should i ignore the ammonia / blooming and just leave the cycling take it course?
of course not
4 - should i ditch the girlfriend for one that wont mess with my stuff?
of course!

thanks for tips.
Alternatively, as long as the ammonia source (the fish) remain, you can use a bit of seeded filter media to your tank, or a live bacteria culture to speed things up. The ones ive seen work so far are: Tetra Safe Start, API Stress Zyme, and BigAls Bio-Support

Simon
hope all that helps a bit! good luck:19:

[simple68]

Thanks for the reply.

OK. 1 new ammonia test kit later. The readings however are still off the chart.


Nitrate 40 odd

Nitrite 0-0.5

20 gallon tank


Being fed Saturday / Tuesday / Thursday.

Fish still happy and swimming around. Only casualties have been 3 out of 4 small algae eaters. All bigger fish still normal. The bactrerial bloom is fading away with frequent water changes. I can see the plants and fish in the tank now ... :)

Still working on the G/F. Need a better offer though ...


Simon

[Wild Turkey]

Thanks for the reply.

OK. 1 new ammonia test kit later. The readings however are still off the chart.


Nitrate 40 odd

Nitrite 0-0.5

20 gallon tank


Being fed Saturday / Tuesday / Thursday.

Fish still happy and swimming around. Only casualties have been 3 out of 4 small algae eaters. All bigger fish still normal. The bactrerial bloom is fading away with frequent water changes. I can see the plants and fish in the tank now ... :)

Still working on the G/F. Need a better offer though ...


Simon

50% waterchange to deal with your nitrate, and when you do it, test ammonia right after. If your ammonia hasnt been cut in half, new test kit time.

Remember to remove any casualties as soon as you see them.

[terrapin24h]

i think you are combating several things leading to an inflated ammonia reading:
1. your ammo lock--not only do these turn the ammonia into ammonium, but they also tend to cause an exaggeration of the concentration. So in a way, they "double lie". Over dosing makes it worse
2. Your water treatment. Many water conditioners(which i assume you are using) can cause false ammonia readings for the same reason ammo lock can. In fact, on the bottles it may even say "may cause false ammonia readings". Again, if you overdose it makes the false readings worse
3. Lotsa fish, little tank. I think you have too much fish for the biological capability for your system. You were probably right on the line before the cleaning, and now that the bio filter of the tank has been nuked it could take a LOOOONG time for the tank to recover. Don't forget that a HUGE nitrite spike may follow the huge ammonia spike. Could you maybe get two of your GF to another tank? That might help.

Don't be mad at your GF, she was trying to be nice and just didn't know. She prob feels pretty bad about it. Keep your water change schedule up and you should be able to pull through it

--chris

[Wild Turkey]

50% waterchange to deal with your nitrate, and when you do it, test ammonia right after. If your ammonia hasnt been cut in half, new test kit time.

Remember to remove any casualties as soon as you see them.

Sorry, i briefly forgot about the ammo-lock, which is most likely whats messing with you levels. The Wc is still advised

[simple68]

thanks for the tips.

I got a new ammonia test kit and the readings are way high. But are coming down with the water water changes. Probably some messy readings.

My ammonia readings have always been about 0 - 0.2 once they got a bit higher with fish gasping at hte surface so i put in some ammolock and they got higher!!! So i kept in a cycling spiral downwards until i asked for help.

Never had any problems with my ponds. Had 4 cascading ponds with waterfalls n lotsa plants ... lovely :) ... Tanks ... Grrr!!!

As mentioned i moved house and brought some of my favorite fish with. So yeh i am aware that the little tank is a bit overstocked. Looking for a larger tank but the minister of finance isn't happy with me at the moment.


Simon

[terrapin24h]

thanks for the tips.

I got a new ammonia test kit and the readings are way high. But are coming down with the water water changes. Probably some messy readings.

My ammonia readings have always been about 0 - 0.2 once they got a bit higher with fish gasping at hte surface so i put in some ammolock and they got higher!!! So i kept in a cycling spiral downwards until i asked for help.

Never had any problems with my ponds. Had 4 cascading ponds with waterfalls n lotsa plants ... lovely :) ... Tanks ... Grrr!!!

As mentioned i moved house and brought some of my favorite fish with. So yeh i am aware that the little tank is a bit overstocked. Looking for a larger tank but the minister of finance isn't happy with me at the moment.


Simon
If you keep using ammo lock, it is going to continue to lead you astray(keep in mind too that water conditioners can also do the same). Each time you do a WC and add that stuff to the tank it cause a elevated false reading--kinda explains why your readings went UP after you pulled water out of the tank. I'm pretty sure you could add that stuff to a 100% cycled tank and you would get an ammonia reading. It would of course be false. Once you start using that stuff, i think the only way you can get a picture of what is really going on in the tank is by the other levels; trite and trate. Watching those levels can give you an idea of how much ammonia is getting processed.

--chris