Sorry guys, but I need some clarification on cyling process

[niqolas619]

Ok, first off I'm working with a 55 gallon tank with 2 emperor 400's and I plan on doing a malawi setup.

I began my cycling process about two weeks ago. I used Cycle to get the cylcing started, but now have read that this might not be a good thing. Either way, I have been keeping track of the water tests on the days that I did them. My pH is about 8.1 straight out of the tap, so I haven't messed with that at all (it is still 8.1 right now in the tank). I used Stress Coat as the chlorine and chloramine remover. My ammonia was around 0ppm the first week, then went up to about 0.5ppm, then back down to 0ppm. I didn't think this was enough of a spike, so I didn't really test the nitrites or nitrates. I decided today to test the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. My ammonia and nitrite is at 0ppm and my nitrate is a little more than 5ppm.

My question: is my cycle now complete? Or, is this just a small amount of bacteria and I need to wait longer to add fish so that I get a better colony? I ask this because it seems like the values given in the E-book and on Hobbs's quick tips for newbies for the nitrates levels are a little higher (hobbs said if nitrates are over 20ppm... and e-book says nitrates should be below 30ppm). My reading is obviously way below both of these numbers.

I am in no rush to add fish,but I don't want my cycle to die out and then start over. If it is time for me to add fish, should I just do a small water change first and then add 2 or 3 fish, or just put the fish in there with the current nitrate levels?

[Chrona]

Did you do the fishless cycle with adding ammonia and whatnot? The nitrifying bacteria will die off if there isn't fish waste/ammonia in the tank. Cycle does not cycle the tank for you in the case of a fishless setup, because it just contains the bacteria, though it does help speed it up. Without a source of food, they die off and you have to start over again.

[niqolas619]

Did you do the fishless cycle with adding ammonia and whatnot?

No, the only thing I added into the water was the Stress Coat and the Cycle. I am doing fishless, but I haven't added anything to the water.

So should I get a couple fish to ensure the life of my bacteria?

[Chrona]

Heres a great article on fishless cycling. Much easier on the fish and your wallet

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=2678

You can add Cycle too, during the process to speed it up.

[niqolas619]

Alright, I've read through that, and a couple other things within and around this forum on the cycling. My question is if my tank is now cycled? I'm wondering if my nitrate levels are high enough, or will they get higher? I have an ammonia and nitrite level reading of 0ppm, but my nitrates are at 5.0ppm. Does this mean the cycle is complete?

[f1oored]

I don't think your tank is cycled. Cycled means that the bacteria levels are high enough to remove the ammonia that the fish produce. In a fishless cycle you need to add some ammonia to build those bacteria levels. Since you never added any ammonia it isn't really possible for your tank to be cycled.

[f1oored]

Many people have nitrates in their tap water. That is probably where you are getting the 5ppm reading.

[niqolas619]

In a fishless cycle you need to add some ammonia to build those bacteria levels. Since you never added any ammonia it isn't really possible for your tank to be cycled.


Ok, this makes complete sense to me, and I feel dumb for thinking that the tank would "magically" aquire ammonia and then begin the cycling process. It just seemed to me that the adding of ammonia was an option that would speed up the cycling process, but was not a necessary component. I mostly wanted to stay away from adding ammonia because I was worried that I would put something in there that wasn't pure ammonia, and thereby mess up my tank/cycling process.

I'll look for some ammonia tonight (probably start at CVS, and then proceed to Home Depot if CVS doesn't have it).

[Chrona]

Ok, this makes complete sense to me, and I feel dumb for thinking that the tank would "magically" aquire ammonia and then begin the cycling process. It just seemed to me that the adding of ammonia was an option that would speed up the cycling process, but was not a necessary component. I mostly wanted to stay away from adding ammonia because I was worried that I would put something in there that wasn't pure ammonia, and thereby mess up my tank/cycling process.

I'll look for some ammonia tonight (probably start at CVS, and then proceed to Home Depot if CVS doesn't have it).

Shake the bottle. If it foams, then it's not pure ammonia and contains some surfacants.

[Glasstapper]

When I went searching for pure ammonia, I was surprised at how hard it was to find it. Everywhere I went, the crap bubbled up like it had soap in it, so it wasn't what I wanted. I thought the cheap places like the dollar store and walgreens would have it, but no. I finally foung it way in the back of a bottom shelf with only two very dusty bottles left at Wal Mart.

With pure ammonia, if you shake it, it will maybe have a couple of big bubbles that go away almost right away. The stuff you DON'T want will have lots of tiny bubbles that don't go away right away. You'll see the difference after you've shaken up a few bottles. And don't mind the people staring at you while you're shaking all the ammonia bottles. lol.

[Chrona]

And don't mind the people staring at you while you're shaking all the ammonia bottles. lol.

lol:hmm3grin2orange:

[kimmers318]

Do you have a better understanding of the cycling process now? Don't feel bad....alot of petstores and even aquarium and filter manuals will tell you to run the filter for 24 hours before adding fish leading people to believe that is all it takes to get a healthy aquarium!
If you have any more questions feel free to ask, we will help all that we can.

[Gelo_USA]

yea I m another one of the ones who didnt knw
I kept my fish in a tank for 5 months and I only found out what cycling was when I joined here and realized I was doing everything wrong
but now I think everything is ok LOL....

[Lady Hobbs]

If you go with cycling with fish, zebra danio's seem to with stand the cycle process better than others. With other fish, you have to do several water changes when the ammonia and nitrites spike as both are lethal to fish. Danio's are tough little guys and generally you need to do nothing.

One thing nice about the fishless cycle is you have your ammonia as soon as you add it from the bottle instead of waiting days and days for the fish to produce enough to get things going. Add enough ammonia to bring your reading to 5. everyday until you see nitrites then cut back on the ammonia to 3. (I hope you have a test kit?) When your ammonia and nitrites are finally at 0 and you have high nitrates, do a large water change and you're done. You can add some fish.

Most of all, do no cleaning or changing the filter during the cycling process or you will set it back to day one again.

Nitrates when high are also bad for fish. Some places even mention keeping it below 40 but that's too high, in my opinion. Below 30 and even around 20 is fine.

[cocoa_pleco]

danios are great, and most often platys. Platys are generally more recommended for beginners with their first tank since platys can adapt to their mistakes, but theyre great cyclers too

[sergo]

i had a hell of a time finding pure ammonia. i went to 5 different major stores and finally found some at a "mom and pop" hardware store.

[cocoa_pleco]

one of our canadian dept. stores that also sells their own line of products had their brand of pure ammonia, so i was good

[niqolas619]

i had a hell of a time finding pure ammonia.


I'm starting to feel that same pain - I went to two places today, neither had the pure ammonia. It wouldn't normally be that big of a deal, but I'm in Chicago and we've had this stupid winter storm thing so I can't really drive my car, public transportation is lagging, and the sidewalks are completely covered with at least a foot of snow - I'm really missing San Diego.

[Lady Hobbs]

Forget the grocery stores. Check out the Dollar Stores in your area and make sure you give the bottle a good shake. If there's foam, there's additives but bottle should read pure ammonia.

[kimmers318]

I believe I found mine at Giant Eagle. Alot of the time store brands or generic brands are cheaper because they don't add the extra pretty smells and such.

[Lauren B.]

Okay, this is going to be gross but here it goes.

I have just gotten my first aquarium yesterday, and I will soon be starting a fishless cycle. I live in Fort Worth, TX where everything is very new, so very few mom-and-pop anything exists anywhere (unlike NYC where I just came from where everything is old and gross and disgusting).

I'm certain I will have a hard time finding pure ammonia. My question is: instead of pure ammonia, could you substitute cat urine?? (Okay, everybody make a face and go "eeeewwww!"). I can't think of anything higher in ammonia, and unless your cat has a urinary infection (or is on medication) the urine would probably be rather pure and sterile. Basically, it would be substituting another species waste/ammonia for fish waste/ammonia. If, in a 6-gallon tank like mine, it would only take a few drops, then why wouldn't it work? (I mean, aside from just being kinda gross, but I hope we've all gotten past that inital shock now).

Just a thought!
Lauren B. :11:

[cocoa_pleco]

i dont think it'd work.
but just to answer your question, i looked at wikipedia to see what urine is made of, and it has calcium, and alchohol released,( im sure kiddy isnt a alcoholic).

But, there are still bad elements in urine, so no.
I guess if its possible get 2 platys. Theyre tough and can withstand alot, and i have used them many times to cycle tanks

[Chrona]

EWWWWWW

lol

Heres a link saying it's ok

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrogencycle/a/aa042403.htm

The image of you holding a peeing cat over a fish tank while measuring to 5 ppm in ammonia is quite amusing

Oh and calcium is fine, since you'll have to do a large water change at the end anyways. It will only effect your pH. The alcohol (been drinking?? lol) should evaporate within a few hours

[Lauren B.]

Heres a link saying it's ok

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrogencycle/a/aa042403.htm

The image of you holding a peeing cat over a fish tank while measuring to 5 ppm in ammonia is quite amusing

O holy crap!....err, I should say...O holy pee!!!! My idea has actually been done and proven to work!!!!! That is so awesome!!!!! I actually thought outside the box, came up with something creative, and it's actually feasible! I am so proud of myself (even though it does have to do with excrement!) thumbs2:

It also says human urine can be used, but I take too many ibuprofen so thank god I don't have to go there. Luckily, I'm used to collecting feline urine in a semi-sterile manner so it's good to know I have a Plan B if I can't (and most probably won't) be able to find pure ammonia. If I do have to go with this last resort, you folks will certainly be the first to know! :thumb:

[cocoa_pleco]

WOW!i guess you can do it. Just do water changes in the end.
And tell kitty no more alcohol for a week for the name of science!

[Lauren B.]

And tell kitty no more alcohol for a week for the name of science!

I'll make sure my cats stay on the wagon! After the tank has cycled, I'll let them start boozing, shooting up, and cracking it up again.

[cocoa_pleco]

tell kittty to go to cuban cigars for a week, then after you get what you need, ill buy kitty some smirnoff

[kimmers318]

I am still back at how the heck do you collect cat pee?????? This is really getting warped here and I am thinking my kitties would be really pissed (no pun intended:wink2: ) at me if I tried to collect their urine!!!!!!!!!!!

TGIF!!!

[Lady Hobbs]

I think you have found a good way to introduce infection into your tank water. Check out the Dollar Stores in your area or these small mom and pop stores. Ammonia has got to be somewhere around there.

If you can't find pure ammonia, use danio's and do the fish cycling. I would opt for anything but cat urine.