5 DEAD!.....in one day.....Maybe more to come! :(

[dishmando]

Holy shit, last night i removed a broken air stone from my tank and installed a bendable air wand under the gravel. After i was done, i noticed i stirred up the crap below and it was now floating throughout the tank.
I figure no big deal right?!, normal for that to happen.......anyhow, when i was done, most of my fish headed towards the top and towards one side. This morning i find my dwarf gourami floating!...thats 1, i get a call at work from the wife, a platy and a clown loach were "floaties"......We get home tonight, 1 more platy, and 1 more loach. Damnnnnnnn..... I need an explanation here folks. The remainder of fish dont look too peppy either. 2 of our 3 ID sharks lay on their side until you go reach for them......:help:

Water stats >> Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 5 ppm (high)
Nitrates: 5 ppm (maybe a little more, 6-7)
Ph: 7.6 (which its always been)

Notes: Our tank has not yet cycled........

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[*Sarah*]

Wow, that's awful! I'm a beginner here too, but I hope someone has an answer for you!

[Chrona]

Holy shit, last night i removed a broken air stone from my tank and installed a bendable air wand under the gravel. After i was done, i noticed i stirred up the crap below and it was now floating throughout the tank.
I figure no big deal right?!, normal for that to happen.......anyhow, when i was done, most of my fish headed towards the top and towards one side. This morning i find my dwarf gourami floating!...thats 1, i get a call at work from the wife, a platy and a clown loach were "floaties"......We get home tonight, 1 more platy, and 1 more loach. Damnnnnnnn..... I need an explanation here folks. The remainder of fish dont look too peppy either. 2 of our 3 ID sharks lay on their side until you go reach for them......:help:

Water stats >> Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 5 ppm (high)
Nitrates: 5 ppm (maybe a little more, 6-7)
Ph: 7.6 (which its always been)

Notes: Our tank has not yet cycled........

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Well, thats it then. The fish were already stressed from the cycling, and the added pollutants pushed them over the edge. Dwarf gouramis are especially sensitive. The platy should have been alright though.....

I would recommend water changes to lower the nitrites. Don't touch the gravel or filter until the tank is cycled.

Also, how long have these fish been in the tank?

[Nautilus29]

its your nitrites. Gouramis and loaches and I think id sharks arnt good fish to be cycling with. you should do a big water change 50% at least, If you want the rest of your fish to live. Keep checking your water every day and if it gets high do another big water change. It sounds like you are at the end of your cycle but you might have set it back a few days by sturring up your stones.

When you are cycling your tank your not supposed to sturr up your stones becuase the benificial bacteria are trying to grow in them.

[Chrona]

Oh and don't put the air wand under the gravel for now. Just let it sit on top.

[deckard_wa]

Nautilus is right, ID sharks are not god fish to cycle with, but then they aren't good fish to have in a home aquarium period. Those fish can get over 9' long if they survive long enough.

Gouramis and Clown Loaches cab be very susceptible to a cycling tank so it's no surprise they didn't make it. If you're going to cycle with fish Zebra Danios are about the hardiest things out there.

Your nitrites should come down soon so if I were you I'd do daily 15 - 20% PWCs which will slow the end of the cycle down but give your remaining fishes a fighting chance. Good luck

[dishmando]

thanks for all the replies...... the fish have been in the tank since about 2 weeks of being full from new. Another question though, someone stated not to be stirring up the gravel, well, once the tank is established, it must be ok to do that correct?...
Anyhow, ive added some stresszyme, and installed my Penguin 350 biowheel that came in the mail today. As for the water change someone told me to do, I thought they were unneccessary until after the tank has established?!?.....
I think im gonna go get the python tomorrow regardless. When i do this water change, is it strictly water?......Just suck out, condition, and refill?

[Chrona]

thanks for all the replies...... the fish have been in the tank since about 2 weeks of being full from new. Another question though, someone stated not to be stirring up the gravel, well, once the tank is established, it must be ok to do that correct?...
Anyhow, ive added some stresszyme, and installed my Penguin 350 biowheel that came in the mail today. As for the water change someone told me to do, I thought they were unneccessary until after the tank has established?!?.....
I think im gonna go get the python tomorrow regardless. When i do this water change, is it strictly water?......Just suck out, condition, and refill?

Well you said the air wand stirred up a storm, so I'm assuming you have alot of solid waste in your gravel, which needs to be vacuumed whenever you do a water change. Once your gravel is clean, you can stick the air wand under it.

Water changes after a complete cycling are just to remove the nitrates periodically. Water changes during fish cycling are even more crucial, as they remove some of the highly toxic ammonia and nitrites. This, of course, makes the cycling process longer, but with fish like dwarf gouramis, they won't survive the higher concentrations.

[jessie]

It will take about 4-6 weeks before your tank has fully established the beneficial bacteria that can help remove your ammonia and nitrites from the water. While this process is occurring, your beneficial bacteria are sitting in your gravel, in your filter, etc..., Basically the benefit of doing the frequent water changes will be to lower your nitrite levels without disturbing the bacteria that are in your gravel that will help take care of the problem. It is more to help the rest of the fish survive while you are waiting for this to happen. Your nitrites (and ammonia may spike) will stay pretty high until it is fully cycled. Once they "catch up," you should be ok to start vacuuming your gravel.

[deckard_wa]

Until your tank is cycled you should not gravel vac as you would get rid of some beneficial bacteria that way and at present you need all that you can get.

As for water changes, usually you do not do them until after the cycle is complete but in your case the fish you have got are not able to survive the cycling process so you need to change out some of the water to bring the nitrite levels down to a level that give your fish a chance of survival. This will make the cycling process last a little longer but be much less stressful for the fish.

I'm not sure what Sress-zyme actually does but I'd try to avoid chemicals while your BB colonies are building

[jessie]

If you are using Stress Zyme to dechlorinate your water before you add it to the tank, you need to continue to do this. We use Stress Coat, and I believe Stress Zyme is a very similar product. Adding water to the tank without dechlorinating it will only cause more stress and harm to the fish.

[Chrona]

Oh sorry, my bad, I got this post confused with another one. The above posters are correct. Don't vacuum the gravel while cycling.

[jessie]

Actually, I wanted to recomment on the Stress Zyme. Is this supposed to add bacteria to your tank? I have heard that these kind of products are not very effective, because the bacteria will die unless refrigerated. You do need to add some type of dechlorinator though before adding water to the tank.

[deckard_wa]

If Stress-zyme is just a dechlorinator then yes, use that, if it has some affect on Nitrites, or Ammonia then it would be harmful to use during cycling. Like I said I don't know stress-zyme so this post is a "just in case"

[Chrona]

Actually, I wanted to recomment on the Stress Zyme. Is this supposed to add bacteria to your tank? I have heard that these kind of products are not very effective, because the bacteria will die unless refrigerated. You do need to add some type of dechlorinator though before adding water to the tank.

You are thinking of Biospora. AFAIK, that is the only product on the market that actually contains all of the various bacteria you need for the nitrogen cycle. Because it is all live, it must be refrigerated. Expensive stuff though

[jessie]

So basically any other product that is supposed to add bacteria is a rip-off? Stress Zyme claims to have millions of live bacteria in each teaspoonful.

[Chrona]

Lemme clarify. Biospira is the only product that contains LIVE bacteria and hence needs refrigeration. Stress Zyme sits on the shelf in stores for who knows how long, so unless they had some kind of a source of ammonia in there, which would make for a terrible water conditioner, the bacteria would die off very quickly. Maybe they have a way of making bacteria go dormant? I don't know.

EDIT: Checked on Stress-zyme, and the bacteria is dormant in the solution in the container, which is how it has a shelf life of 5 years. Question answered. The real issue now is, is biospira any more effective than Stress zyme?

[deckard_wa]

Pretty much a rip-off, there a dozens of different brands and if any of them worked reliably it'd be the only one on the market. The only one that seems to be even vaguely worthwhile is bio-spira but you cant afford to use that now as the huge parameter swings it would cause would kill your fishies for sure

[jessie]

Thanks. Out of my own curiousity, I went to Stress Zyme's web page. They claim that their bacteria are "dormant" and become active once added to your tank, supposedly with a shelf life of 5 years in the bottle. Sounds a little "fishy" to me!

Edit: Chrona-after I posted this I saw that you also found the so called shelf live of 5 years!

[jessie]

I just did it the good old way with a bottle of pure ammonia, then added fish after it was done cycling. No harm to any fishies, no costly so-called bacteria in a bottle, just a little time and patience.

[Chrona]

Thanks. Out of my own curiousity, I went to Stress Zyme's web page. They claim that their bacteria are "dormant" and become active once added to your tank, supposedly with a shelf life of 5 years in the bottle. Sounds a little "fishy" to me!

Eh, API has always been a pretty reputable company imo. There may be different strains of bacteria, and API isolated one that only becomes active when in contact with ammonia/etc. I doubt they would lie about something as blatant as that. One guy with a microscope and some petri dishes could ruin them lol

[deckard_wa]

LOL very fishy indeed, personally don't believe a word of it. If they are dormant for 5 years do they need a kiss from a handsome prince to wake up?!?

Oh yeah, that a different fairy story!!

[Chrona]

Pretty much a rip-off, there a dozens of different brands and if any of them worked reliably it'd be the only one on the market. The only one that seems to be even vaguely worthwhile is bio-spira but you cant afford to use that now as the huge parameter swings it would cause would kill your fishies for sure

What parameter swings do you refer to btw? All of the bacteria you need is already in the tank, so waste is converted directly to nitrate.

[Chrona]

I'm gonna go try the stress-zyme actually, hehe

[deckard_wa]

As far as I know Bio-spira is not available in Australia, but talking to people from the states who have used it successfully, what they have told me is that it takes a couple of days and if you check the water params as it works you see a massive ammonia spike and then a massive nitrite spike and then a huge reading for nitrates, at which point you are supposed to do a large water change and then add your fish. So if that's true, and I've got no reason to doubt it as they all said the same thing, you do not want to do it while you have fish in the tank

[Chrona]

As far as I know Bio-spira is not available in Australia, but talking to people from the states who have used it successfully, what they have told me is that it takes a couple of days and if you check the water params as it works you see a massive ammonia spike and then a massive nitrite spike and then a huge reading for nitrates, at which point you are supposed to do a large water change and then add your fish. So if that's true, and I've got no reason to doubt it as they all said the same thing, you do not want to do it while you have fish in the tank

Huh, thats interesting. So I guess it is more something used for quick fish less cycling, as opposed to supplementing current biological filtration.

[deckard_wa]

Yes, my understanding is that that's exactly what it's for and I'm guessing stress-zyme is the same or at least similar, IF it works

[Lady Hobbs]

Your nitrites are way too high. You need to do some water changes stat. Don't leave the gravel or change the filter but do those water changes. Your fish are suffering from going thru high ammonia levels and now high nitrites.

Stress Zyme is not a chemical but a natural added bacteria.

A die off of that many fish at once can only be due to wrong water conditions.

[dishmando]

just a lil update people..... everything seems to be fine now(water wise), only thing is the fish dont seem to be as active as before. Normal behaviour?.....Ive yet to do a water change due to a difference in opinions across the board. Im thinking i should though. Regardless, 1 loach survived, 3 ID's, and 3 gouramis.
The sharks really like to scare me now though, playing dead more than before, and wedging themselves under my driftwood, leading my wife to believe they're gonners!...heheh... shes wants to always reach in the tank and lift the wood.

anyhow, thanks for all the help. i guess my main concern now is.....water change?....and how much!

cheers,
MN:thumb:

[cocoa_pleco]

my id does that too. If he gets scared (hes terrified of light) he'll dart around and try to wedge himself under a mossball or in a corner and just lay there

[Glasstapper]

Do a 50% water change as soon as you possibly can. Like today. If you wait longer, the fish will be in the poisoned water for longer, and they have less chance of surviving, or if they do survive, don't be surprised if you start having disease problems along the way. When fish are exposed to a cyle, they become incredibly stressed and weak. This makes their immune system weak and something as simple as a slight temperature change (if that were to happen) then they would be too weak to fight off say, ich or a fungus, which could wipe out the rest of your stock.

Thank you for caring enough to come and ask for help. :) Now you know all about cycling and which fish should and should not be used to do the cycle (and I guess you've figured out how much we love fishless cycling!). Good luck to you in the future, and if you have any remaining fish after your cycle, keep a close eye on them for signs of disease because they will be in a weakened state and very susceptible to getting sick.

For now, do water changes without touching the gravel. Just suck the water out and replace with same temperature dechlorinated water. Once your water tests show that you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite, then it is safe to start shiphoning out your gravel to get the poop out. For regular maintenance, a weekly 30% part water change with siphoning should be sufficient to keep your water levels proper.

Good luck!

[Faith_at_Large]

This probably goes without saying, but given how you got into this situation, I would like to remind you to not be too quick to replace your lost fish. The water change is absolutely necessary now due to the types of fish you have chosen, and this will lengthen the cycle process; however, you should wait until cycle process is complete before you add any more fish. Even then you should have a restocking plan - do not add a whole bunch of fish at once or you will risk another crisis for your fish. I am cycling with Zebra Danios and except for the fish that I lost to the filter at the very beginning (it's now fully covered with a foam filter), my other fish seem to be doing well. Very frisky.