Someone remind me again...

[Mith]

... why am I doing a fishless cycle? I just got back from the fish place (same place I bought my tank) and I was telling him that I'm about a week or two close to getting my fish. I told him I was doing a fishless cycle. He said, why don't you just add bacteria and you're ready?

I didn't know.... so someone please remind me once more why I (or anyone else) just add bacteria and have done with it?

Thanks.


BTW... he had a WAY better supply of fish. I have come to the conclusion that me finding fish online, printing up the pictures and taking them to the fish store, doesn't necessarily mean those are gonna be the fish that I actually get. There are SO many different types and when they're young, a lot of them look very similar.

So I figured I'll just pay a bit more so that I can actually see what the fish look like! They also had some fish that I hadn't even seen. His tank had probably 200 fish in it and all of them were getting along.

I'm convinced that if you have enough fish, agression won't be an issue becaue there are too many fish to steak out a territory.

So I'm going down the path to fish... just thought I'd share where I'm at right now.

[fins_n_fur]

Because it's safer for the fish, and much less of a hassle and stress less for you (constant monitoring of parameters, numerous w/c's, nail biting, ripping out of hair, etc). I think the only product for instant cycling, if you can source it, is what used to be Biospera (now TetraSafe, or similar, but a Tetra product, if I re-call).

Of course, if you know someone with an established tank, then you can speed things up quickly. If you have access to someone like that, then your bad for not doing so. :hmm3grin2orange:

[Mith]

Because it's safer for the fish, and much less of a hassle and stress less for you (constant monitoring of parameters, numerous w/c's, nail biting, ripping out of hair, etc). I think the only product for instant cycling, if you can source it, is what used to be Biospera (now TetraSafe, or similar, but a Tetra product, if I re-call).

Of course, if you know someone with an established tank, then you can speed things up quickly. If you have access to someone like that, then your bad for not doing so. :hmm3grin2orange:


Dang, I should have grabbed a cup of his water and thrown it into my tank... LOL.

[kaybee]

Dang, I should have grabbed a cup of his water and thrown it into my tank... LOL.

'Dirty' filter media (biological & mechanical) would be even better as it's teeming with beneficial bacteria colonies.

[bushwhacker]

that wouldnt work mith, the bacteria is in the filter and a little bit in the gravel.. hardly none in the water... after following your thread since the beginning i cant see how a fishless cycle is supposed to be faster, and your not the only one i've watched go crazy.. people have cycled with fish for a hundred years fishless has been around for a cple years at most its just the newest fad......

[Gemini]

Dang, I should have grabbed a cup of his water and thrown it into my tank... LOL.
Will do nothing. You need filter bacteria.
Grab his dirty filter media and throw it in your filter.
Juvenile fish do not have the same behavioural traits as adults. You will regret buying whatever gets along in that tank as they get older.
I personally have learnt the hard way that just because it works in a LFS sale tank doesn't mean it works after months at home.
But by all means do what you want it is your tank after all.

[Northernguy]

There is Tetra Safe Start and Seachem Stability.Both are excellent for a fast cycle but you are so close with yours that its not that neccesary.As Hobbs also said yesterday!lol
A couple more days could be all it takes.:11:

[Sharon]

I agree with Gemini. Be careful, Mith....They won't behave the same way once you get them in your tank. If you were to overstock as much as the LFS tanks, you'd never maintain water quality, you'll have unhappy fish, and you'll be posting HELP threads!

[mac]

i cant see how a fishless cycle is supposed to be faster, and your not the only one i've watched go crazy.. people have cycled with fish for a hundred years fishless has been around for a cple years at most its just the newest fad......

Well IMO and IME have I have not found that Fish-less Cycles are fast than cycled tanks with fish, in setting up. And yes both work. BUt it all comes down to one thing, the fish, and this question, "Do you want to hurt your fish?"

As for it being a new fad, I can't agree with. YEs it is new. BUt it has been proven to work great with no damage done to the fish.

As for comparing the old tried Cycling with fish against the new one there is no comparison. Really it just comes down to the fact that yes it works, but it can be improved in many different ways.


Mith, that is one thing simple stocking, means easy to care for tank.
Good luck with your tank.

mac

[Mith]

Will do nothing. You need filter bacteria.
Grab his dirty filter media and throw it in your filter.
Juvenile fish do not have the same behavioural traits as adults. You will regret buying whatever gets along in that tank as they get older.
I personally have learnt the hard way that just because it works in a LFS sale tank doesn't mean it works after months at home.
But by all means do what you want it is your tank after all.


Now let me clarify... my intent here is not to just grab fish and throw them into the tank. I'm putting my best effort into selecting fish that are known to be compatible. The only thing at this point that has changed, is my method of getting the fish. I went online and found compatible fish. I chose Peacocks. The glitch I ran into was that actually GETTING those exact fish is difficult. I am not expert enough to possitively identify juvenile fish based on adult photos... etc. At this point, I would rather go to a fish store where I can see exactly what fish i'm getting as opposed to picking out a picture of one online... and who knows what it will look like once you get the fish... and of course, then it's too late if it's not what you want. Cichlids (correct me if I'm wrong) have a huge variety of colors... and it's not likely that you'll get one that looks exactly like one you picked online (excluding say the flagrant colors like the yellow ones, they seem to be fairly consistent.

My LFS guy also said a lot of those cichlids are man-made with all the breeding they do. Again, picking out a fish online is not reliable.

I'm also finding (through other sources online about maintaining fish....and don't ask for my source lol... becauseu I've gone to a MILLION sites about these suckers)... that a more densly populated tank has less aggression. As far as not being able to maintain the quality of the water. I don't find that to be true based on the fact that fish stores regularily have large amounts of fish in thier tanks.... they don't seem to have fish falling out of the sky, if you will.


There are many opinions about everything I'm finding. I'm new to all this, but this is why I'm here and other places trying to get everyone's opinions about how things work. Even on this forum we have people with different opinions about how to do things. I've always been taught, listen to everyone, then take all that iformation and make your decision based on what you learned.

Anyway, this is where I'm at (as I like to say... lol). I'm not throwing up my hands and giving up. I'm here asking questions and doing a lot of internet searches (thank you Google!).

Peace Out.... <--- I HATE it when people say that... LOL....
but i could think of at this point.

[Gemini]

Yes you overstock - but you have to be careful to overstock with compatible fish. I have found that you still need to be able to ID fish, if the store you go to has them all in one tank. You can trust them if you want, but IMO they are often wrong. But I don't know your LFS - he may be a cichlid breeder for the last 80 years who can ID every fish in his sleep. I'm just going from my experience. Before I learnt this I was given two female fish after stating I wanted males for my show tank. So I've learnt to make sure I know what I want.
What is a man made fish? Do you mean hybrid fish? Fish interbreeding due to being together that in nature wouldn't be?
Fish stores hold fish for a small amount of time. Usually small fish. Usually they don't feed them too much. And usually they have a fairly decent sized filter.
So you are going to hold them much longer, some damage is accumulative not instant, they will grow, behaviour changes as fish get older. You must have great filtration and an excellent WC schedule. Not hard just takes dedication.
With a big tank you could well have just started stocking slowly and monitored the fish and hoped for the best. But you've already gone this far fishless so you may as well stick it out.

[HomaridNoob6]

I have to agree with the buying fish online thing. It's hard to know what you're getting unless you communicate with the seller and see an exact picture of the fish your getting, even then though. Also you have no way of seeing the conditions the fish are living in, what if your fish looks great, but was living in a tank where everything else was either ich infested or a corpse. It's a really good option to find some of those hard to find fish yes, but i much prefer being able to see what I'm buying when i buy it. Of course then again, not everyone has access to a good LFS.

I recently went to a privately owned place I had heard good things about thats almost 2 hours away up by San Jose, and the guy there tried to tell me a peacock bass would do fine as an adult in a 50 gallon.I was admiring some they had in there, and mentioned i wish i had a tank i could keep them in. LOL I've seen pics of some of those things that are as big as a 50 gal...

Glad to hear your getting so near to having fish finally Mith, it must be a great feeling for ya!

[Mith]

Yes you overstock - but you have to be careful to overstock with compatible fish. I have found that you still need to be able to ID fish, if the store you go to has them all in one tank. You can trust them if you want, but IMO they are often wrong. But I don't know your LFS - he may be a cichlid breeder for the last 80 years who can ID every fish in his sleep. I'm just going from my experience. Before I learnt this I was given two female fish after stating I wanted males for my show tank. So I've learnt to make sure I know what I want.
What is a man made fish? Do you mean hybrid fish? Fish interbreeding due to being together that in nature wouldn't be?
Fish stores hold fish for a small amount of time. Usually small fish. Usually they don't feed them too much. And usually they have a fairly decent sized filter.
So you are going to hold them much longer, some damage is accumulative not instant, they will grow, behaviour changes as fish get older. You must have great filtration and an excellent WC schedule. Not hard just takes dedication.
With a big tank you could well have just started stocking slowly and monitored the fish and hoped for the best. But you've already gone this far fishless so you may as well stick it out.


It's a shame, but you're right. SO many people are incompetent! It's really hard to trust anyone anymore with any degree of expertise! The guy I've chosen to buy from is the owner of this place. The place is actually fairly large comparitively speaking to most shops (being large is not necessarily indicative of being good, dually noted). I had an opportunity to see fish that I'd never seen, including some of the peacocks that I had on my list. I only have so many options regarding finding someone I can trust. This is where my homework may help. He SEEMS to have knowlwege of his fish... hopefully he does because I don't have a lot of options left.

When I say, "man made fish"... I'm referancing cross breeding (hybrids). He actually had some of those too. I'm not sure to what extent he was speaking though as far as all cichlids.


I recently went to a privately owned place I had heard good things about thats almost 2 hours away up by San Jose, and the guy there tried to tell me a peacock bass would do fine as an adult in a 50 gallon.I was admiring some they had in there, and mentioned i wish i had a tank i could keep them in. LOL I've seen pics of some of those things that are as big as a 50 gal...

Glad to hear your getting so near to having fish finally Mith, it must be a great feeling for ya!


You can hardly beat word-of-mouth when it comes to good mechanics good anything service or product related! Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in my area who I could speak with in regards to getting reliable referances. So I'm doing the best I can.

Anyway, ya... I've gotta be close to peaking! I still have about 40ppm nitrAtes and roughly 1-2ppm nitrItes. My amonia dissapates in a couple hours when I feed the tank (which reminds me, I ain't done that yet today... LOL).

I'm telling you, by the time I'm done cycling this tank, I'll bet I'd have used the whole freek'n bottle, it it's a HUGE bottle!... LOL

:22:

[Gemini]

If you run out of ammonia you dont' have to do housework! Nothing to do it with!! Look on the bright side Mith!!!
There are some good ones out there Mith. What I have found is the more you know, the easier it is to pick if someone knows what they are talking about. For eg - one LFS I go to has a lot of young school guys working. I didn't trust any of them until one day I was in browsing and overheard him telling a customer how to cycle a tank before he bought any fish. That increased my trust in him - I then spoke to him and found out he is very knowledgeable. So they do exist but I have found my level of knowledge helps me determine theirs.
I avoid hybrids usually as I don't know what they are or how strong. But I know that a lot of fish have come about because of this.

[Mith]

If you run out of ammonia you dont' have to do housework! Nothing to do it with!! Look on the bright side Mith!!!
There are some good ones out there Mith. What I have found is the more you know, the easier it is to pick if someone knows what they are talking about. For eg - one LFS I go to has a lot of young school guys working. I didn't trust any of them until one day I was in browsing and overheard him telling a customer how to cycle a tank before he bought any fish. That increased my trust in him - I then spoke to him and found out he is very knowledgeable. So they do exist but I have found my level of knowledge helps me determine theirs.
I avoid hybrids usually as I don't know what they are or how strong. But I know that a lot of fish have come about because of this.


Re not having to do housework.... have you SEEN my toilet? LOL. Trust me, amonia's not being wasted on it... hehe.

Credibility is crucial! My local owner, the one who's very polite (Asian, he always bows when I shake his hand, so I bow back... heh... Gawd I'm freek'n polite)... anywho... I was in his shop last week and he was pointing to a fish indicating that the fish was one on my list (pics included). I noted that there were no white spots on the anal fin... at that point, I lost any confidence I had in him. I believe that if you don't know something, shut the freek up because I can get BAD information from ANYONE!

Anyway, after having seen the fish at the man's store where I bought my tank, I was quite inpressed with them. I can't describe them either... they weren't colorful, but dayum they were cool looking!

Maybe I'll go back there tomorrow and take some pictures and post them here. That would really help "us" decide which fish are compatible and which are not (that he has).

[Owlbehere]

I know nothing, I seriously know nothing about cichlids, but I thought the white spots on the anal fin had to do with gender in certain species.

[Lady Hobbs]

When cycling with fish, you add a few fish then wait a couple weeks then a few more and wait some more. Testing the water all the time and doing necessary water changes. Fishless is nice with cichlids because you can practically stock all your fish at once which works best for them.

Fishless cycling has been around at least 12-15 years, bushwacker. If anything is "new" it's the bacteria boosters.

[Gemini]

Re not having to do housework.... have you SEEN my toilet? LOL. Trust me, amonia's not being wasted on it... hehe.

Credibility is crucial! My local owner, the one who's very polite (Asian, he always bows when I shake his hand, so I bow back... heh... Gawd I'm freek'n polite)... anywho... I was in his shop last week and he was pointing to a fish indicating that the fish was one on my list (pics included). I noted that there were no white spots on the anal fin... at that point, I lost any confidence I had in him. I believe that if you don't know something, shut the freek up because I can get BAD information from ANYONE!

Anyway, after having seen the fish at the man's store where I bought my tank, I was quite inpressed with them. I can't describe them either... they weren't colorful, but dayum they were cool looking!

Maybe I'll go back there tomorrow and take some pictures and post them here. That would really help "us" decide which fish are compatible and which are not (that he has).
The fish even at good LFS are rarely as colourful as when they are at your place. They get more relaxed, settle in, get good food and they get much better colours.

[terrapin24h]

The fish even at good LFS are rarely as colourful as when they are at your place. They get more relaxed, settle in, get good food and they get much better colours.

Not to mention many lfs use aquarium salt in their tanks to kill off disease. We got lake malwis from a store and they were in 7.2ph water! I realize they can acclimate to any water but 7.2 from a fish store? cmon. I recently got steered down the wrong path by said lfs and am doing everything i can to make good by the fish because of it. Trust no lfs, and make no purchase prior to researching it on the web. That's the lesson i learned.

--chris

ps: and you're doing a fishless cycle because like to breathe ammonia no more than you do. Curious why yours is taking so long. I cycled in 9 days when i did fishless.

[Mith]

ps: and you're doing a fishless cycle because like to breathe ammonia no more than you do. Curious why yours is taking so long. I cycled in 9 days when i did fishless.

In a nut shell, because I keep farting with the tank. I've moved rocks around... emptied it (because the substrate got cloudy).... filled it... emptied it... filled it... repeat as necessary lol. Once I finally arranged it the way I was reasonably content with, I filled it and left it alone. That's where I'm at right now.

I've had it actually cycling now over a week, possibly two? I can't remember. I'm doing everything by the book. Keeping the amonia at 4-5ppm...... my nitrAtes are currently 40ppm and my nitrItes are 1-2ppm. Amonia leaves after a few hours of putting it into the tank.

[Gemini]

[QUOTE=Mith]In a nut shell, because I keep farting with the tank. QUOTE]
Hahahahahahah I read that as farting in the tank and thought to myself for cying out loud Mith what are you doing now.... :hmm3grin2orange:

[DragonWatch]

[QUOTE=Mith]In a nut shell, because I keep farting with the tank. QUOTE]
Hahahahahahah I read that as farting in the tank and thought to myself for cying out loud Mith what are you doing now.... :hmm3grin2orange:

Yeah...I doubt that'd add significant amounts of ammonia... :hmm3grin2orange:

[Mith]

[QUOTE=Mith]In a nut shell, because I keep farting with the tank. QUOTE]
Hahahahahahah I read that as farting in the tank and thought to myself for cying out loud Mith what are you doing now.... :hmm3grin2orange:


So much for high class intellectual threads... LOL... I knew I couldn't do it. I HAD to use the "F" word didn't I... hehe.

I do that too sometimes. I quickly read something and say, "WTF did I just read!!!" Then I re read it and find what I thought I read was nothing like what was actually written.... LOL thumbs2:

[Crispy]

Peacocks and other africans don't always have the 'egg spots' on their anal fins until they are sexually mature. Just because they are not there yet doesn't mean they aren't the fish you want. Juvies are usually drably colored (especially the peacocks) and hard to tell what they'll look like as adults.

[Mith]

Peacocks and other africans don't always have the 'egg spots' on their anal fins until they are sexually mature. Just because they are not there yet doesn't mean they aren't the fish you want. Juvies are usually drably colored (especially the peacocks) and hard to tell what they'll look like as adults.


...and that's the funny part, you'd THINK that they'd have anything that can camouflage them when they're little... I would think that spots help hide them!

Thanks for the info thoughthumbs2: