About to give up!

[lava]

Guys I swear I am about to give up on this hobby that I tried for the first time! I swear this cycle of mine seems like it will never end! my nitrites are very high, around 5 I add ammonia like suggested and the cycle is still not done. I am about to be on my 3rd month! I get so upset sometimes that I dont even wanna add ammonia any more, witch now caused the nitrites to decline a tiny bit ,on top of that my parents and brothers all keep making fun of me and complain saying when I am gonna put the fish in! they all keep telling me to just put em in....I am trying to do this by the guids but this is just getting ridiculous. I should have searched harder for someone around me so they could just rub their stuff on my pads.

[Sharkman]

how much ammonia exactly are you putting into the tank daily? You should take an ammonia reading before you add ammonia and then an ammonia reading after you add ammonia to see the level you are adding it should be between 2-3 ppm.

Do you have a liquid test kit?

[Lady Hobbs]

Just "rubbing some stuff on your pads" is hardly beneficial. Water needs to flow thru a good seasoned filter and what you mention would have hardly done anything if anything at all.

I thought a week or so ago you were nearly finished. You were showing no ammonia daily and had nitrites.

Sounds to me as you have had a burn out from adding too much ammonia. Do a large water change cleaning nothing, add your ammonia to 2 and see what happens. Something needs to kick that cycle in gear.

[fins_n_fur]

Can you give us a breakdown of the following:

Ammonia ? (and are you adding every day, if so, how much?)
Nitrites - 5 ppm as you said
Nitrates ?

What is your temp set to?
How much ammonia are you adding daily?
Are you doing any tank cleaning/filter cleaning?
Do you have an airstone running or is there sufficient water surface movement to encourage oxygen exchange?
How large is your tank?
What sort of filter are you using (model and number)?

Tell your parents, brothers and sisters to mind their own business :hmm3grin2orange: It's your tank, not theirs. You are saving the fish and yourself a lot of work by doing this correctly. Don't give up yet, I bet that with a few tweaks, we can help to get you cycled soon.

[NickFish]

You're probably disturbing the bacteria in some way or another.

In the last 3 months have you:

Touched/moved the decorations
Touched/moved the gravel
Touched the filter media
Done a water change (top-offs do not count)
Does your tank currently not have a heater


If you answered yes to any of these than that is your problem.

You could also be adding too much ammonia. I can't see you having more than 2ppm.

The the nitrate in your tap water, then check the nitrate in your tank water. If it is significantly higher in your tank than in your tap your tank is cycled.


You can't give up on the hobby! You haven't even started the hobby! Tell your siblings to mind their own business. If sibling peer pressure influences your decisions that much than maybe we aren't the help you should be seeking.

[Lady Hobbs]

Or added water without the dechlorinator.

[lava]

fins_n_fur]Can you give us a breakdown of the following:

Ammonia ? (and are you adding every day, if so, how much?)
Nitrites - 5 ppm as you said
Nitrates ?

Ammonia is currently at 1 (need to b add more now)
Nitrites are at 5
Nitrates are at 40

All seems good right? The ammonia that I add daily gets eatten up really fast like some gas gazler .


What is your temp set to?


I cranked the temp up to 82 and had it there FOR A LONG TIME. But now I have recieved some plants that cannot live in water that warm so I am forced to reduce the temps down to 74.



How much ammonia are you adding daily?
Are you doing any tank cleaning/filter cleaning?
Do you have an airstone running or is there sufficient water surface movement to encourage oxygen exchange?
How large is your tank?
What sort of filter are you using (model and number)? Adding as suggested , to get it to register 2-3 and yes I do check before I add. Tank is a 55 gallon with air stone, filter is an emperor 400 and I have no done any cleaning there is also planty of movement.


Tell your parents, brothers and sisters to mind their own business :hmm3grin2orange: It's your tank, not theirs. You are saving the fish and yourself a lot of work by doing this correctly. Don't give up yet, I bet that with a few tweaks, we can help to get you cycled soon.

I wish I had the guts to tell them that. But I do not :( I think im gonna go crazy if this tank doesnt finish within a week. My brother always like to say this infront of everyone. "hey guys! I think by the end of next year we should have some fishes"


how much ammonia exactly are you putting into the tank daily? You should take an ammonia reading before you add ammonia and then an ammonia reading after you add ammonia to see the level you are adding it should be between 2-3 ppm.

Do you have a liquid test kit? I do it exactly like you said it and yes I do have a liquid test kit.


Just "rubbing some stuff on your pads" is hardly beneficial. Water needs to flow thru a good seasoned filter and what you mention would have hardly done anything if anything at all.

[QUOTE]I thought a week or so ago you were nearly finished. YEa I THOUGHT SO TOO! but apparently not.


You were showing no ammonia daily and had nitrites. No, you must of miss understood me, the ammonia was dropping quicky (guessing because the bacteria was growing) but as far as nitrites I had them and still do. THey are very high around 5 or higher.


Sounds to me as you have had a burn out from adding too much ammonia. Do a large water change cleaning nothing, add your ammonia to 2 and see what happens. Something needs to kick that cycle in gear.
Why does this always happen to me ? :( sigh...how big of a water change would you say? like the %? 30 50? Maybe I should give it another week? and if nothing happens then do the water change?

[fins_n_fur]

I'm wondering if the drop in temperature slowed your cycle down? To be honest, I think that you are very close and this is the part that is probably the most intensely frustrating. Keep adding enough ammonia to keep to 2-3 ppm a day. I would expect the nitrites to drop any day now. Let's see what others have to say.

[lava]

Man I hope your right! I would really hate to do all that water changing ,since i dont have one of those water kits , I gotta do it by buckets >_>"

[fins_n_fur]

I hope so too...I cycled a 120 gallon a year ago and nearly lost it...talk about a patience and character building experience. But listen to Lady Hobbs's advice...she knows what she's talking about.

[lava]

WOW 120 gal?!?! you must be rich! just the substrate it self must of cost you a lot! Anyways so If I go with hobbs advice I should do the water change?

[fins_n_fur]

No, not rich, just a bit nutz :hmm3grin2orange: And I used pool filter sand and got it wholesale, so it wasn't crazy. Everything else was. Personally, I'd give it a day or two to see what your nitrites do before doing a w/c.

[lava]

Alright that sounds good! :)

[fixedwing71]

What's your pH? The nitrogen cycle basically stops at pH 6.0 or below, as we just recently found out. Our pH went below 6.0 and was that way for a long time.... and the ammonia started to rise. Did plenty of PWCs and the ammonia would go down just a little bit but not much. Nitrates didn't move. We added some Jungle "Tank Buddies" pH tablets that restored the alkalinity of the water and strengthened the pH buffer. A few days later, the pH was back to 6.6, the fish are MUCH more active, and the ammonia is down to zero again.

Check your pH and let us know what it is.

[lava]

Um witch PH do I check? the one that says HIGH PH? or the one that just says PH?

[fixedwing71]

Start with the regular pH test and see what the results are. The High Range pH test (mine is for pH of 7.4 or above) is meant for aquariums that have fish which require a high pH. I don't use the HR pH test because none of my fish require a high pH.

[Gemini]

Start with the regular test - if it shows high on that test (7.4-7.6) then test it with the high PH kit. The high kit tests for over 7.4PH.
My tap water PH is 8.2 so if I test with a normal kit it just shows 7.6 as that is the highest on the kit. I need a high PH kit to test my PH out of the tap.

[geowashlaw]

What's your pH? The nitrogen cycle basically stops at pH 6.0 or below, as we just recently found out. Our pH went below 6.0 and was that way for a long time.... and the ammonia started to rise. Did plenty of PWCs and the ammonia would go down just a little bit but not much. Nitrates didn't move. We added some Jungle "Tank Buddies" pH tablets that restored the alkalinity of the water and strengthened the pH buffer. A few days later, the pH was back to 6.6, the fish are MUCH more active, and the ammonia is down to zero again.


This happened to me too recently. My approach was to take all the water out and refill it. I would not recommend that approach for you, because it then took 2 weeks or so for the tank to recycle after that. If it is really low, I would follow Lady Hobbs's advice and do a big partial w/c and see what that does to the pH.

[NickFish]

Ok....pretend I'm not here.......


If your nitrates are at 40ppm then your tank is cycled. You are just adding so much ammonia it can never keep up. Add less ammonia and wait for it to balance out.

I am not exactly sure why you are checking pH. Household Ammonia has a pH of about 13.0-13.5, several hundred times more alkaline than tap water, so with all the ammonia you've been adding any reading you are going to get is meaningless.


WOW 120 gal?!?! you must be rich! just the substrate it self must of cost you a lot!
LOL! Wait until you find our what people on here spend on their fish!
There are members on here, me included, that have thousands and tens of thousands on our fish. Jeeez I can't even think about how much I've spent....easily over $10 grand but probably more. With nearly two dozen tanks running it really adds up. I think I've spent over $3000 already on my 460g and there isn't even a fish in it.
If you think you can stay in this hobby on a budget you have another thing coming!

[Lady Hobbs]

I would give it one more week as fins mentioned. If something doesn't happen by then, do a large water change (half) and see it the thing starts reducing nitrites.

80 is not too warm for plants.

To add: Lava, you are in the part now that is the hardest on your patience. The ammonia eating bacteria grows much faster than the nitrite bacteria and you are not alone in your impatience here. It happens all the time so do not give up and do not despair. You are doing everything right, you have saved the lives of your fish and you will get thru this last phase soon. I promise.

[lava]

I would give it one more week as fins mentioned. If something doesn't happen by then, do a large water change (half) and see it the thing starts reducing nitrites.

80 is not too warm for plants.

To add: Lava, you are in the part now that is the hardest on your patience. The ammonia eating bacteria grows much faster than the nitrite bacteria and you are not alone in your impatience here. It happens all the time so do not give up and do not despair. You are doing everything right, you have saved the lives of your fish and you will get thru this last phase soon. I promise. Alright I shell wait :)


Start with the regular test - if it shows high on that test (7.4-7.6) then test it with the high PH kit. The high kit tests for over 7.4PH.
My tap water PH is 8.2 so if I test with a normal kit it just shows 7.6 as that is the highest on the kit. I need a high PH kit to test my PH out of the tap. Just tested and man that chart is soooo hard to tell from! the ph is actually (if I am not color blind) 6.8


This happened to me too recently. My approach was to take all the water out and refill it. I would not recommend that approach for you, because it then took 2 weeks or so for the tank to recycle after that. If it is really low, I would follow Lady Hobbs's advice and do a big partial w/c and see what that does to the pH. Ill definitely not do the water change now.


NickFish]Ok....pretend I'm not here....... LOL Nick I am sorry if I did not respond to any of the stuff you wrote! However I read it and sucked it all into my brain like a sponge!



If your nitrates are at 40ppm then your tank is cycled. You are just adding so much ammonia it can never keep up. Add less ammonia and wait for it to balance out. Hmmm but I am only adding as suggested, howcome it cant keep up? What should I dose it now to? 1? and what exactly do you mean to wait for it to balance out?


I am not exactly sure why you are checking pH. Household Ammonia has a pH of about 13.0-13.5, several hundred times more alkaline than tap water, so with all the ammonia you've been adding any reading you are going to get is meaningless. Well I really have no Idea why I am checking except for I was told to do so lol.


LOL! Wait until you find our what people on here spend on their fish!
There are members on here, me included, that have thousands and tens of thousands on our fish. Jeeez I can't even think about how much I've spent....easily over $10 grand but probably more. With nearly two dozen tanks running it really adds up. I think I've spent over $3000 already on my 460g and there isn't even a fish in it.
If you think you can stay in this hobby on a budget you have another thing coming![/QUOTE]Yes I believe I saw you making a thread or replying in someones thread about a fish you bought for 1200 or something? some sort of an arowin or whatever they're called? and a 460g? WOW you guys are either filthy rich! or just crazy LOL, man thats like having a miniature OCEAN in your house!
The total I have spent on my 55 gal was about 600? and I am about to upgrade my lighting witch is gonna be another 100 bucks, I am going insane from all this spending! I never thought it would cost me so much! and I gotten lots of things for free!

[geowashlaw]

If you think you can stay in this hobby on a budget you have another thing coming!

Well, this just depends on your inherent level of self control ... but it is expensive to get a tank up and running ...

[Alfcea]

Lava,

Just an idea. Have you added any of the 'bacteria in a bottle' products? Why don't you add some. That may get rid of your nitrites and fully cycle your tank... and by the way, I agree with Nick.

[Jellygirl]

Hi lava,

Sorry i can't help as I'ma newbie myself. I'm not here to advise but here to sympathise. Hold in there. Fish are so pleasureable (and a worry at times) but its all worth it.

Keeping fish is not always an easy thing, believe me I know I learned the hard way before I discovered forums and how helpful people can be.

I feel that the site isn't just for beginners, it's more about sharing a hobby and we all have to start somewhere. When you see a fish struggling and you don't know what to do, fishkeeping can be a lonely hobby.

I'm sure you tank will overcome its cycling problems soon and then we will see you posting in a different section and seeking advice on something else - just like I have too.

We are all in the same boat. Hold in therethumbs2:

Jellygirl.

[Lady Hobbs]

Ya know, your family could be a bit more supportive. I assume they are teasing more than mocking and your frustration makes it seem as they are just picking on you, but really, learning to care about the fish and not subject them to imminent death should be applauded, not scorned. They just don't understand, I think.

You need a hug and support, you just keep coming here and we'll give ya all you want.

[lava]

Ah thanks so much for the support guys! Alfcea I have added bacteria booster in the past but left it alone because I did not want to go through all of the water changes. I cant add any now since I gave the bottle away to my cousin X_X"

[fixedwing71]

I asked him to check his pH because like him, I am a beginner and his problems sounded like he had a pH issue. As I said in my post, my nitrogen cycle stopped because my pH was below 6.0 and everything has been working fine since I raised the pH back to normal. Again, I'm still a beginner and I didn't know that household ammonia has an extremely high pH. And if his pH readings were 6.8, that doesn't exactly sound meaningless to me....that helps him eliminate one possibiliy while troubleshooting his problem. Like most others on these forums, I'm simply trying to help.

[lava]

Its all good man :) I appreciate any help I can get!

[Gemini]

I asked him to check his pH because like him, I am a beginner and his problems sounded like he had a pH issue. As I said in my post, my nitrogen cycle stopped because my pH was below 6.0 and everything has been working fine since I raised the pH back to normal. Again, I'm still a beginner and I didn't know that household ammonia has an extremely high pH. And if his pH readings were 6.8, that doesn't exactly sound meaningless to me....that helps him eliminate one possibiliy while troubleshooting his problem. Like most others on these forums, I'm simply trying to help.
I think you did help. Don't worry about it :D:hmm3grin2orange: I didn't know household ammonia has a high PH either thumbs2:

[NickFish]

As I said in my post, my nitrogen cycle stopped because my pH was below 6.0 and everything has been working fine since I raised the pH back to normal.
That would not inhibit a cycle. If I could just explain something for the benefit of you and the questioner....I feel that I can't just write a point down, I have to prove it too. So if you believe me on the first point skip the following, if you have your doubts read on.


The pH doesn't really affect the nitrifying bacteria, however if you get too much CO2 in the aquarium there is a problem there and a low pH, which stands for The Power of Hydrogen. CO2 in aquariums occasionally bonds adds an extra atom of oxygen to form the polyatomic compound carbonate, (CO3)2-, which again bonds with the hydrogen atoms to form the bicarbonate (HCO3)-. As bicarbonate is formed the Power of Hydrogen is reduced, since it forms the new polyatomic compound previously discussed.

It is this bicarbonate that lowers pH and inhibits the nitrogen cycle. Since most of the bacteria are highly aerobic the creation of high CO2 levels and thus lower O2 levels, since the extra O atom leaves to bond with the new compound, will inhibit the nitrogen cycle. Not a low pH. A low pH is simply a by-product of too many (HCO3)- atoms, but is not nessesarily indicative of this. It may have been the case in your particular situation, but not in all of them. If he is running an airstone there is almost no chance the (HCO3)- could ever gain a foothold anyways, thus worrying about pH instead of nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia is pointless. Knowing the levels of your polyatomix compounds during a cycle is much more important.

Knowing how things work, and not that they just do work and leaving it at that is essential in fishkeeping.


Yes I believe I saw you making a thread or replying in someones thread about a fish you bought for 1200 or something? some sort of an arowin or whatever they're called? and a 460g? WOW you guys are either filthy rich! or just crazy LOL, man thats like having a miniature OCEAN in your house!
You got it, super red asian arowana! I love him! The 460g is about 7' long.
I would have to go with the second one, crazy. I'm definitely NOT rich, lol. Its true you can be more conservative with the hobby and thus spend less money, but when you are as in love with the hobby as I am that just isn't possible! ;)

[Gemini]

[QUOTE=NickFish] CO2 in aquariums occasionally bonds adds an extra atom of oxygen to form the polyatomic compound carbonate, (CO3)2-, which again bonds with the hydrogen atoms to form the bicarbonate (HCO3)-. As bicarbonate is formed the Power of Hydrogen is reduced, since it forms the new polyatomic compound previously discussed.

It is this bicarbonate that lowers pH and inhibits the nitrogen cycle. Since most of the bacteria are highly aerobic the creation of high CO2 levels and thus lower O2 levels, since the extra O atom leaves to bond with the new compound, will inhibit the nitrogen cycle. Not a low pH. A low pH is simply a by-product of too many (HCO3)- atoms, but is not nessesarily indicative of this. It may have been the case in your particular situation, but not in all of them. If he is running an airstone there is almost no chance the (HCO3)- could ever gain a foothold anyways, thus worrying about pH instead of nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia is pointless. Knowing the levels of your polyatomix compounds during a cycle is much more important.

Knowing how things work, and not that they just do work and leaving it at that is essential in fishkeeping.

QUOTE]
Ok Nickfish - I read what you have written and I don't understand it. What is a polyatomix compound - CO2 and CO3?? I'm not sure that being a chemistry major is that important to keeping fish. Is it not enough that I know what to do because you understand it and tell people? Not you personally Nickfish but I mean people who understand explain the basics to others.

[PostalPenguin]

[QUOTE=NickFish] CO2 in aquariums occasionally bonds adds an extra atom of oxygen to form the polyatomic compound carbonate, (CO3)2-, which again bonds with the hydrogen atoms to form the bicarbonate (HCO3)-. As bicarbonate is formed the Power of Hydrogen is reduced, since it forms the new polyatomic compound previously discussed.

It is this bicarbonate that lowers pH and inhibits the nitrogen cycle......

QUOTE]
Ok Nickfish - I read what you have written and I don't understand it. What is a polyatomix compound - CO2 and CO3?? I'm not sure that being a chemistry major is that important to keeping fish. Is it not enough that I know what to do because you understand it and tell people? Not you personally Nickfish but I mean people who understand explain the basics to others.

I dont understand what he said either and I am taking several chemistry classes. A small amount of CO2 in water forms carbonic acid, H2CO3, aka the acidity in soda, which then breaks down to HCO3-. HC03- itself is basic and more of it will raise pH not lower it. :confused:

[Gemini]

If I add bicarbonate doesn't that provide a PH buffer?? I'm really confused now....

[Lady Hobbs]

pH is never stable in uncycled tanks, anyway. Don't even worry about pH at all.

Not everyone has the same pay scale here. Some people are adults and have good jobs and others there are young people just starting out, may still be living at home or might be 15 years old. Some have wealthy parents who dot on their kids and others have kids of their own they're trying to support.

But it doesn't mean you can't enjoy your hobby as much as the person who can spend a whole lot more. Some have a whole lot more because they've been doing this a whole lot longer. Everyone started out somewhere.

The only time I get upset is when someone has fish with ick and they say they can't afford ick medication. If you can't afford the medication to keep your fish well, the food to feed them, a heater they may need, then you shouldn't have fish just like you shouldn't have a dog you can't afford to feed or take to the vet.

It's a responsiblity to have fish and provide for them all you should. But neither is this a hobby that needs to cost you $5000 a year to be enjoyable.

[Heliwyr]

CO2 in aquariums occasionally bonds adds an extra atom of oxygen to form the polyatomic compound carbonate, (CO3)2-, which again bonds with the hydrogen atoms to form the bicarbonate (HCO3)-. As bicarbonate is formed the Power of Hydrogen is reduced, since it forms the new polyatomic compound previously discussed.

It is this bicarbonate that lowers pH and inhibits the nitrogen cycle. Since most of the bacteria are highly aerobic the creation of high CO2 levels and thus lower O2 levels, since the extra O atom leaves to bond with the new compound, will inhibit the nitrogen cycle. Not a low pH. A low pH is simply a by-product of too many (HCO3)- atoms, but is not nessesarily indicative of this. It may have been the case in your particular situation, but not in all of them. If he is running an airstone there is almost no chance the (HCO3)- could ever gain a foothold anyways, thus worrying about pH instead of nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia is pointless. Knowing the levels of your polyatomix compounds during a cycle is much more important.

Knowing how things work, and not that they just do work and leaving it at that is essential in fishkeeping.


Ok Nickfish - I read what you have written and I don't understand it. What is a polyatomix compound - CO2 and CO3?? I'm not sure that being a chemistry major is that important to keeping fish. Is it not enough that I know what to do because you understand it and tell people? Not you personally Nickfish but I mean people who understand explain the basics to others.


Nickfish meant that too much CO2 (carbon dioxide) in the water tends to cause hydrogen to attach to the CO2 and eat up an oxygen atom from any existing O2 (breathable oxygen) molecules. In other words, the oxygen molecules start to break apart, which further reduces the amount of oxygen in the aquarium. Those HCO3 (this new molecule...the one that ate that oxygen atom) molecules cause the pH to drop, which is why low pH is often considered something that stalls a cycle. The low pH isn't the actual cause, it's just an indicator of poor oxygen levels and too much carbon dioxide.

I don't think I made that much better. But I tried.

In simpler terms, just get an airstone and turn your filter flow as high as it will go to increase the amount of oxygen in the water. Or get some fast growing plants if you have the right lighting.

[Gemini]

Ok... I'm a visual person so does anyone have a diagram or something that explains it?
CO2 lowers the PH is that right?

[lava]

This is getting to complicating for my brain LOL but still fun to read O_o

[Heliwyr]

I'm an artist, not a chemist, so this is my interpretation of what happens. (Though I love chemistry, but have forgotten a lot about how molecules combine since highschool.)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/Runai/molecules-1.jpg


So, there you have the CO2 molecule hitting on the hydrogen atom (H). That becomes a HCO2 molecule, which invites one of the oxygen atoms (O) to come join them. The oxygen atom detaches from its partner atom and joins the others to form HCO3. Which leaves that one lone oxygen atom to contemplate how it was just ditched by its buddy and will probably go join some other HCO2 molecule and talk trash about his friend behind his back.

Clearer now?

[Gemini]

Clearer now?
Hahaha it is actually! Thank you!!

[NickFish]

It seems earlier on in this thread when I was talking clearly everyone ignored what I was saying.

Now that I am talking more complicated and confusing everyone pays attention and I get a whole page of responses. Besides, me and the questioner have been talking back and forth in pms so I feel little need to really say much more on here. Don't think we're getting too far off topic because most of the problems have already been solved privately.

Experiment is a success! :hmm3grin2orange:
Not that it does anything to improve me opinions on people.



Anyways, I can speak clearer if anyone wants to pay attention.

That last guy was talking about how he had a low pH and it stopped his cycle. I said that it is not a low pH that stops a cycle, but a low amount of oxygen. Then I went to point out that a low pH often indicated a low amount of oxygen but not in every case. He was just saying that the nitrogen cycle stops at a low pH, and I went on to say that this is not true in all cases.


CO2 lowers the PH is that right?
Yes, not directly but yes.



If I add bicarbonate doesn't that provide a PH buffer?? I'm really confused now....
No, you're thinking of Sodium Bicarbonate, NaHCO3, a new compound entirely.


pH is never stable in uncycled tanks, anyway. Don't even worry about pH at all.
That is EXACTLY what I have been saying this whole time. Ammonia is probably messing up your pH so much you won't get any accurate reading. And even if you did it wouldn't mean anything since hydrogen is not involved in the nitrogen cycle. And yet there is a whole page on his pH which means nothing, like I previously stated. You are much better off simply worrying about ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Not to shoot down anyone that posted anything on here, but I like to clear things up to all parties involved.

Simple enough for ya?


Not everyone has the same pay scale here. Some people are adults and have good jobs and others there are young people just starting out, may still be living at home or might be 15 years old. Some have wealthy parents who dot on their kids and others have kids of their own they're trying to support.

But it doesn't mean you can't enjoy your hobby as much as the person who can spend a whole lot more. Some have a whole lot more because they've been doing this a whole lot longer. Everyone started out somewhere.

The only time I get upset is when someone has fish with ick and they say they can't afford ick medication. If you can't afford the medication to keep your fish well, the food to feed them, a heater they may need, then you shouldn't have fish just like you shouldn't have a dog you can't afford to feed or take to the vet.

It's a responsiblity to have fish and provide for them all you should. But neither is this a hobby that needs to cost you $5000 a year to be enjoyable.
Very true Hobbs. But when you love the hobby as much as I do it just isn't possible. Really. It just is not possible. :)

Very good point though/ You can enjoy this hobby with a $20 betta in a 5g. Everyone has a starting point, you're not going to go right off and get a dozen tanks on the same day. You being younger you have parents and that to keep you in check anyways.
Good luck and have fun!

[Lady Hobbs]

That's right, Nick. Where you live is also a deciding factor. Maybe you can afford more but you live in an apartment, condo, live with your parents or are in college, etc. Maybe you're in business that takes you traveling often. Maybe you have a slew of other animals that also requires needs.

There's tons of stuff I'd love to have but I have to live within my means. I just love the tanks and fish I do have, tho.

I'm on the wrong end of the spectrum here in this forum. Here we have the young who will be making more money (someday) and we have me, who had money but now doesn't nor never will. LOL

[Alfcea]

The pH doesn't really affect the nitrifying bacteria, however if you get too much CO2 in the aquarium there is a problem there and a low pH, which stands for The Power of Hydrogen. CO2 in aquariums occasionally bonds adds an extra atom of oxygen to form the polyatomic compound carbonate, (CO3)2-, which again bonds with the hydrogen atoms to form the bicarbonate (HCO3)-. As bicarbonate is formed the Power of Hydrogen is reduced, since it forms the new polyatomic compound previously discussed.

It is this bicarbonate that lowers pH and inhibits the nitrogen cycle. Since most of the bacteria are highly aerobic the creation of high CO2 levels and thus lower O2 levels, since the extra O atom leaves to bond with the new compound, will inhibit the nitrogen cycle. Not a low pH. A low pH is simply a by-product of too many (HCO3)- atoms, but is not nessesarily indicative of this. It may have been the case in your particular situation, but not in all of them. If he is running an airstone there is almost no chance the (HCO3)- could ever gain a foothold anyways, thus worrying about pH instead of nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia is pointless. Knowing the levels of your polyatomix compounds during a cycle is much more important.


Hmmm.... Sorry Nick, but this is a bit inaccurate...

Actually, what happens is that (dissolved) CO2 bonds with a molecule of water first, forming carbonic acid according to this equation.

1. CO2 + H2O ---> H2CO3

Then, this carbonic acid can liberate hydrogen ions, thus decreasing the pH.

2. H2CO3 ---> HCO3- + H+

And I totally agree with you. The pH should not affect the cycle at all.

[Poofaye C.]

Well, this turned out to be a very interesting thread. See what you started lava?!?!?LOL. Way to hang in there though lava, don't give up and please keep us posted. Can't wait to see your first fishy pics......in a few more months!!!LOL!!!....just kidding!
By the way, grow a pair and tell those nay sayers to get their own hobby if they're not giong to help. You can do it.

[NickFish]

Hmmm.... Sorry Nick, but this is a bit inaccurate...

Actually, what happens is that (dissolved) CO2 bonds with a molecule of water first, forming carbonic acid according to this equation.

1. CO2 + H2O ---> H2CO3

Then, this carbonic acid can liberate hydrogen ions, thus decreasing the pH.

2. H2CO3 ---> HCO3- + H+

And I totally agree with you. The pH should not affect the cycle at all.
I guess you're right, must of overlooked that water molecule. With all the ions I often overlook simple molecular compounds. Nothing changes about what I say though, just a mistake in the exact formula. All the effects and after effects I mentioned still stand of course. Times like these when I'm glad I'm getting a degree in biology rather than chemistry.


I'm on the wrong end of the spectrum here in this forum. Here we have the young who will be making more money (someday) and we have me, who had money but now doesn't nor never will. LOL
Don't give up Hobbs! There's always the lottery!. :hmm3grin2orange:

[lava]

Well, this turned out to be a very interesting thread. See what you started lava?!?!?LOL. Way to hang in there though lava, don't give up and please keep us posted. Can't wait to see your first fishy pics......in a few more months!!!LOL!!!....just kidding!
By the way, grow a pair and tell those nay sayers to get their own hobby if they're not giong to help. You can do it.LOL poofaye, I am doing good so far, everyone's been so encouraging and helpful! LOL and about the fish , I dont think Ill be putting in any after the cycle finishes, I still havent decided what to use for my moss lawn, (for the shrimps to hide in ) so thats the other part that is slowing me down.




NickFish

Don't give up Hobbs! There's always the lottery!. :hmm3grin2orange LOL man those lotteries are so evil! >_>" and addicting

[Lady Hobbs]

Lava, after your tank has cycled, you have to be prepared to add fish right away as that bacteria you have struggled so long to grow will die off. If you don't add fish right away, you have to keep giving that tank ammonia from the bottle, at least. Not only do you need ammonia to cycle the tank, you also need ammonia to keep that bacteria living when finished.

Alf's idea of adding the bacteria booster now might just move those nitrites faster for you. You still need to continue adding the ammonia tho.

[lava]

Shoot HObbs! thanks for reminding me that, I completely forgot! Man I love you guys lol. Btw me and nick have been msging each other about the cycle ,and man his been really helpful guys, (as all of you) I just wish that Nick was here, 3 months ago lol, X_X Thanks to his huge brain, and word of mouth! it got to my think skull, as you all know....im really slow xD

[Lady Hobbs]

Well, Nick was here 3 months ago but really, it hasn't been that long since you started cycling. It just seems like it! I checked back on your posts just to see and you had that raw shrimp in your tank Jan 1, remember? You hadn't even gotten the ammonia yet plus there was a couple other little glinches in there.

When you think of it, cycling is easy as heck. You add the required amount of ammonia each day until you see nitrites then drop back on the amount of ammonia to half. When it's done, do a large water change. That's it other than turning your heater up and running an airstone, if you have one.

People make it to be a big complicated thing and it's not complicated at all. If you'd have been lucky enough to have a matured filter pad, you could have done all that in about 12 days.

[soundarrm]

A Very Good Thread To Read The Practical Implications Of Cyclingthumbs2: :22:

[lava]

LOL yea...:)