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mutt_07
01-26-2009, 09:33 AM
What are some NON-african cichlid tank mates that are compatible with african cichlids? severum? african knife fish?

Northernguy
01-26-2009, 02:52 PM
Africans are from hard water with high ph levels.
Central and south americans are from more acidic waters.
The Africans will be much more dominant fish.I do not think it will work.
I have always wanted that tank as well.:11:
here are some links.
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/southamerican.php

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/cichlid/african.php

Fishguy2727
01-26-2009, 04:13 PM
None really. The rift lake cichlids need water that mimics their native water to truly thrive. Other fish can't thrive in these same parameters. And Lake Tanganyika is even more extreme in its parameters.

toddnbecka
01-26-2009, 05:22 PM
Depends on the cichlids, but giant danios and/or rainbow fish are sometimes used as dithers. Synodontis catfish and BN pleco's are also relatively common non-African tankmates. Loaches are sometimes mixed with varying success.

Fishguy2727
01-26-2009, 05:29 PM
I don't like using dithers, it is cruel.

Bristlenose plecos are softwater, as are loaches.

toddnbecka
01-26-2009, 11:02 PM
Danios and/or rainbows generally occupy the same ecological niche as Cyp's, and are sometimes substituted because they're less expensive and more readily available. BN's have been bred in aquariums for so long that the water chemistry hardly matters to them, and loaches are nearly as adaptable as catfish.

Fishguy2727
01-27-2009, 12:33 AM
Breeding in aquariums for so long doesn't undo evolution. Have any bristlenose bred in a pH of 8.2 and the special salt that the cichlids should have to do their absolute best? This would be the only way to show they are truly thriving. (Yes, they live in lower pH, but color and other indicators of thriving show that 8.2, special salts, etc. are better.)

toddnbecka
01-27-2009, 04:07 AM
There is a difference between tolerating and requiring the water chemistry they have adapted to in the wild. I see no difference in color between the captive-bred tank-raised S. fryeri in my 55 and the pictures of any others on the net. I use crushed coral to buffer the water chemistry, but no other salts or chemicals (other than dechlor) to treat my tap water. The pH is 7.6, and the BN looks as good as the cichlids. Same with the yellow Lab's I swapped off for them. The hobbyist I got the cichlids from as juvies doesn't even acclimate his new arrivals. He simply dumps the shipping water through a net and drops the fish into a tank. Seems a bit careless to me, but he swears he hasn't lost any fish to shock after years of doing it that way. FW fish are by nature adaptable to different conditions. Unlike SW fish their environment is subject to sudden changes, particularly in rivers.

Fishguy2727
01-27-2009, 04:19 AM
In my experience there is a difference when the fish are treated like normal and when things are changed to truly allow them to thrive. Please read the article 'Diseases in Aquarium Fish' in the Fish Diseases section. It explains the difference in thriving and doing very well. It is also in my blog.

mac
01-27-2009, 04:27 AM
Well I have to disagree with the fact that "FW fish adapt to the environment."

Now yes fish do and can adapt, but it is stress full, and endangering the fish's life. And yes some do pull through the acclimation process like this, but they can be scared for life by it.

Have you tried dropping a discus in to water that it is not use to. Also with this LFS you have do you know if the water is similar to the water that the fish have been transported in. Also depending on were you are some places have to place fish in quarantine for up to 3-4 months, before selling.

As for Loaches going into very high pH, that is a no no. They don't live in that type of water. As for the Rainbows it is the same, depending on what type, and which area they come from.

Now to my best of knowledge Rift Lake Cichlids don't really have much currant flow in the lakes, although they have surf zones. While Loaches come from fast flowing mountain streams. So yes they both have oxygenation but one needs less water flow than the other. So that then makes it not that great for the Loaches.

Also depending on the substrate crushed Corals can hurt certain fish's gills. And Loaches have sand not Coral in their rivers, so this is another down side.

Now Danois in Cichlid tanks. That is again not a good idea. The Danois like more of a Tannin water while this dose not occur much in the Rift lakes.


As for place fish that are not use to African Cichlids like the rift lake ones IMO is very cruel. And should never be done.

As for BN's they have not changed IMO with tank breeding. other wise evolution has changed in them!! Also I agree that these fish are not great additions to a Cichlid tank. There are many algae eating fish from the rift lakes to eat algae.

IMO leave certain fish like the African Rift lake fish to them selves in their own type of tanks, and colonies. And leave other compatible fish to their own environmentally designed tanks.

mac

Red
01-27-2009, 04:37 AM
There are many algae eating fish from the rift lakes to eat algae.

Like?
I have bred BN's in 7.8 water, lots of times not even trying. Its what my normal PH is and only lower my PH with natural ways (driftwood peat moss). Having them any higher then that can be a bit high for them and they shouldn't be kept in anything above.

mac
01-27-2009, 04:43 AM
Like?



Well for starters there are various types of Tanganyika Ccihlid like the T. Duboisi which graze on algae.

Others are many many many many types of Cichlids, along with a type of Garra if I remember rightly. I will look for the info on it.

mac

Red
01-27-2009, 04:46 AM
Yeah, if you think about it there is not really any african algae eaters. Some will "graze" on algae but not keep it under control. Normals common plecos aren't that big of algae eaters at that. If you really think about it, all fish have to adapt and change habits going to a tanks.

mac
01-27-2009, 04:49 AM
Yeah, if you think about it there is not really any african algae eaters. Some will "graze" on algae but not keep it under control. Normals common plecos aren't that big of algae eaters at that. If you really think about it, all fish have to adapt and change habits going to a tanks.


There is one, I just can't get the name for it. It is like a African SAE.

mac

Red
01-27-2009, 04:51 AM
Yeah, you have to admit though its hard finding a algae eater that likes higher PH. There is some out there but its hard to find them, and if you PH isn't in the 8's you are fine using one.

Fishguy2727
01-27-2009, 05:16 AM
Mag-Float and water changes.

It can be hard to find a truly acceptable algae eater in many freshwater setups, not just rift lake setups. And even then they may not make much of a difference at all. So it is nothing unique. Mbunas can actually keep it under control, but that is only if you have a mbuna tank obviously.

mac
01-27-2009, 05:28 AM
Mag-Float and water changes.

It can be hard to find a truly acceptable algae eater in many freshwater setups, not just rift lake setups. And even then they may not make much of a difference at all. So it is nothing unique. Mbunas can actually keep it under control, but that is only if you have a mbuna tank obviously.

Very true.

Mag-Float, what is that about?

And water changes I agree totally with.
mac

Fishguy2727
01-27-2009, 05:38 AM
Mag-Float is an algae wiping product, I guess they don't have it down there?

mac
01-27-2009, 05:46 AM
Mag-Float is an algae wiping product, I guess they don't have it down there?

They have a product called Algone here. Works great.
I will look into it to see if we have it.

Cheers,
mac

Gemini
01-27-2009, 06:04 AM
Is a mag float just the magnets on both side that you scrub with? Or is it a chemical?
I tried a BN in with my Africans and they picked on him and stressed him out. Now I don't have an algae eater - but I also don't have algae.

Red
01-27-2009, 01:10 PM
Have you noticed how expensive those mag floats are? For the largest one by me they are like 60 bucks. For two magnets and a pad thing. LOL
EDIT: here is a link from the review section.
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/review/showproduct.php?product=111&cat=32

Fishguy2727
01-27-2009, 03:24 PM
The biggest one at my work is like $25 or so. The biggest one they make that I have seen is made for really thick tanks (like 1" thick) and those could be expensive (but still nothing compared to the 400 gallon tank they are being used in). They make a huge difference though, like a Python. Definitely worth it.

I have heard some bad things about Algone. One customer said it didn't work at all. Another said as soon as it was put in all his parrots went straight to the bottom and laid on their sides.

mac
01-27-2009, 08:18 PM
I have heard some bad things about Algone. One customer said it didn't work at all. Another said as soon as it was put in all his parrots went straight to the bottom and laid on their sides.

My LFS has had the same thing. While other people he has sold the product to has had a good time with it. IME you have to be very carful in dosing. And follow the instructions, to the point. Also apparently there is a me to brand of it which is crape.

mac