Calling all reptile owners!

[shockshockshad]

I might get a bearded dragon, and with the size order I have (well, I might not get it but if I DO ship this order) I can get a free product. I saw this:http://www.bigappleherp.com/FREE-With-225-Purchase-Exo-Terra-LIGHT-CYCLE-Unit-W-Dawn-Dusk-Timer-2-x-30W and it looks nice, but what do you think? I was going to get this: http://www.bigappleherp.com/Zoo-Med-Reptisun-Terrarium-Hood?sc=2&category=22 and a normal UVB bulb (I think the Reptisun 10.0). Does this look half-way decent? Or is it not that great and just looks really cool?

I have two more questions . If I get the beardie, I might buy her here. http://www.hancocksbeardeddragons.com/. It looks like a reputable breeder- but what do you think? The second one is the one I want on this page: http://www.hancocksbeardeddragons.com/id59.html. Is it a good idea to adopt dragons? I think it would be nice, like adopting a dog from a shelter. Plus it would be a little less expensive.

The last question. I'm not sure if I want to use my 10 gallon hospital as a feeding tank for the beardie. I realized that the fish's illnesses are in the tank. So even if I move the fish to a hospital, the parasites/bacteria are still in the tank. So there's really no point to a hospital (unless you can tell me otherwise). I want to use it as a feeding tank so that I don't get crickets in the main tank (btw, I'm gonna get this, in the 50 gallon long size http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Pro-Series-Granite-Acrylic-Cages?sc=2&category=4) I will also put the feeding dish in there with the veggies (sprayed with water). The bearded dragon (which I think I will name Sandfire, since thats the kind she is) will go in there for about 15 minutes, while I'm feeding the fish.

So many questions, I know! But I really want to have my (possible) beardie be happy!

[Kaga's Kritters]

i guess if you wanted to get it cause it was free that would be ok, but i dont think it's really needed. (also it says that the price of live animals are not included in the $225 you need to spend to get that for free)

what size cage/tank you putting the bearded dragon in? (just wondering)

[shockshockshad]

it says that the price of live animals are not included in the $225 you need to spend to get that for free)
Oh I defnately will enough to get the free product! I put $450 worth of stuff in the cart lol. But I probably won't get that much as my parents will try and trim it down as much as they can.


what size cage/tank you putting the bearded dragon in?
Sorry I edited it after you posted. They will go in a 50 gallon long. Its the same footprint as a 55 gallon but not as tall (since they don't need the height that much)

[Kaga's Kritters]

that breeder seems ok, but it's hard to tell from just their website. You would probably be better off going with Big Apple Herb.

I have never seen anyone use a "feeding tank" for bearded (or really any other lizard) before. I think it's better (and more natural to them) if you feed them in their cage. Just don't dump tons of crickets in at once. Put a few and see how much it eats and then give it a few more. once you have an idea of how much he/she will eat then you will know what to put in each time, which will help cut down on "leftovers". Honestly you shouldn't be feeding crickets that much anyway. a bearded's main diet should be greens. crickents and mealworms are extras to give once a week or so. so you dont really need a feeding tank anyway.

let me know if you have anymore questions.

[shockshockshad]

The reason I didn't want to get it off of big apple herp is because they only sell babies (6 inches long) and I thought babies need to be fed more often. Another reason is that I read that babies shouldn't be housed in too big of a tank because they might not be able to find their food (the crickets more than the veggies) so they will need a 20 gallon first, then as they grow they should be moved into a 50 gallon or more. But I don't want to buy both tanks. I might also look for a local breeder around her for a more mature dragon.

I would really appreciate more tips! Thanks for the help!

[Kaga's Kritters]

you could always put up a divider in the big tank and then remove it when you need more room. feeding the babies isnt really any harder than feeding older ones. if you get one thats a little bigger you will want something that is somewhat tame, otherwise it will run more than a baby would from you. i think looking for a local breeder, or at aleast a well-known one would be good. something i just thought of is that the ones from big apple herp are probably not used to being handled at all, but if you go with a smaller breeder than they will probably be handled some. also the idea of adopting one is awsome too. sometimes you can find a good deal on one that someone just cant afford to keep or cant take with them when moving or something........those are usually tame or at least semi-tame and a little on the bigger side. you should get all your supplies and get it set up and stuff while you look for the right beardie.

[Fishguy2727]

I would feed mealworms instead of crickets. They can go in a ceramic bowl and the beardies will have no issue finding them. In addition to gutloaded mealworms I would do the normal veggie salad and try to get them on a high quality pellet. A calcium/Vitamin D3 powder (I use the ultrafine by Rep-Cal) should be put on the mealworms and/or the salad every other day while growing and then about twice a week once adult.

I wouldn't use a separate feeding tank. Moving animals can stress them and cause them to not eat, and it is not necessary in general anyways.

The best lighting would be a Zoo Med Deep Dome with a PowerSun bulb in it. The PowerSun bulbs are more expensive at first, but last longer. They are supposed to last two years and Zoo Med has a one year guarantee on it. The important part about this bulb is that it has heat and UVB in the same bulb. The lighting from it is better than the best heat and UVB when separate. My cousin had his tortoises under proper fluorescent UVB and separate heat bulbs. He switched one bulb over to a PowerSun and saw an immediate improvement in both appetite and activity. They were all more active and ate what would have lasted them all day in just 15 minutes. This would be all the lighting you need. Compared to other lighting bought separately you would go through 2 fluorescent bulbs per year, plus about four heat bulbs, and you would need a whole separate fixture for the fluorescent bulb.

Adult bearded dragons need more turnaround room than a 12" wide tank would allow. I would keep them in a tank 18" wide, like a 40breeder (36" long, 18" wide, and 17" tall).

What substrate will you have?

[Kaga's Kritters]

mealworms are more fattening than crickets. you can alternate them some. the crickets give them something to chase, which they love. it's fun and it's food, lol. mealworms are somewhat more nutritious than crickets, but don't overdo it with them. your greens are the most important part of the diet. make sure to research which greens are the best to use too.

[Fishguy2727]

The more robust beardies and leopard geckos are fed mainly mealworms, a balanced beardy diet will not have any issues with the mealworms. All the breeders I know feed mainly mealworms. I prefer them because they are easier to keep and gutload, and generally cheaper.

[shockshockshad]

The more robust beardies and leopard geckos are fed mainly mealworms, a balanced beardy diet will not have any issues with the mealworms. All the breeders I know feed mainly mealworms. I prefer them because they are easier to keep and gutload, and generally cheaper.
I guess your right. I just always thought mealworms were way more fatty and have a lower meat to shell ratio (I would need to feed the beardie more to keep her full).


Adult bearded dragons need more turnaround room than a 12" wide tank would allow. I would keep them in a tank 18" wide, like a 40breeder (36" long, 18" wide, and 17" tall).


55's are only 12" wide? Oh then I guess its not the footprint of a 55 gallon. The tank is 48" x 18" x 13".

As for substrate I am going to use non adhesive shelf liner. Its very safe, crickets (if I were to use them) can't get under it, and its very inexpensive.

[Fishguy2727]

Yes, solid substrates are definitely 100% safe. It is the loose ones that everyone has a fit over.

The tank is only 13" tall? That is not bad, but I personally would want more like 18" tall so that you can have a good spot for them to get up on and perch while basking, the way they prefer. 48"x18" is the footprint of a 75. I personaly would just get a 75.

I used to never recomment mealworms, but after more research about them I did find that them eating their way out (although not a myth, it has happened) is only an issue if there are other care problems (like inadequate heat) and that the most robust animals are fed mealworms, some exclusively (like breeder leopard geckos). I think crickets every now and then for some activity is a good idea, but I would do mealworms in general.

[shockshockshad]

I'm glad about the mealworms. I've cared for them before, when I had a bird feeder for them for the Bluebirds, so it won't be a problem.

There is a 50 gallon tall that they (the store) has that is 36" x 18" x 17". It is $290 (same price as the one I was going to get), since its acrylic, (like the one I was going to get) its more expensive. They also have this, which I think is really nice. http://www.bigappleherp.com/Exo-Terra-Large-Glass-Terrariums?sc=2&category=4 It's cheaper since its glass, but it probably has a high shipping cost. It also has a built in (what I think is 3D) background. I would either get the 36" x 18" x 17" or the 36" x 18" x 25". I don't think the bearded dragon would need a tank that is 25" tall though, so the 17" high one would probably be adequite.

Which do you think I should get? The acrylic or the glass?

EDIT: Now I see this in the 65 gallon size. http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Acrylic-Cages?sc=2&category=4 This is a 48" x 18" x 17". Its the biggest tank that I've seen so far that is affordable and is not over $300. It is less expensive than the other acrylic but it is not as aesthetically pleasing (square corners, no granite, no background).

[shockshockshad]

To make it easier, here is everything organized.

In the 65 gallon size, $279
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Acrylic-Cages?sc=2&category=4

In the 50 gallon tall size, $289
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Pro-Series-Granite-Acrylic-Cages?sc=2&category=4

In the 36" x 18" x 17" size, $249
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Exo-Terra-Large-Glass-Terrariums?sc=2&category=4

I just need an opinion on these 3 tanks. The 65 gallon is bigger, but the dragon I will probably get (the second one: http://www.hancocksbeardeddragons.com/id59.html) is going to be a small dragon (she is already 12-13 inches long and might not get that much bigger) so she won't need a huge tank. It (the tank) is also pretty ugly. The 50 gallon is really nice, but more expensive. It might also be too small, but I don't think so. The last one is probably my favorite. It has 2 hinged doors on the front and a cool background,

[shockshockshad]

The computer won't let me edit my last post, but I'm not going to get the first one (the 65 gallon). I think its ugly and it doesn't have doors on the front. So only the second and third tanks.

[Kaga's Kritters]

I do not agree on using mealworms as a main diet! I have never heard of anyone recommending this. Beardies will eat insects all the time if you let them, but that doesn't mean it is the best for them. Here are multiple links that show what they should and should not be feed, and what should be staple foods....

http://hubpages.com/hub/Bearded_Dragon_Diet

this one is a really good list
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutritionframeset.html

check out what the beginning of the second paragraph has to say on this one...
http://www.reptilecare.com/beardeddiet.htm

http://www.sundialreptile.com/care%20sheet--bearded%20dragon.htm

http://ecoterrariumsupply.com/bearded-dragon-supplies.php

https://www.msu.edu/~yassine1/care.html

http://www.annapolisbeardeddragon.com/care_sheet

http://www.lynnsbeardeddragons.com/caresheet.html


i guess that is enough links for now to prove my point.

[shockshockshad]

So crickets it is! I will use my ten gallon, get a screen, and put them in there. One question though. When I get the crickets out, can they jump over the edge of the tank? If they can't, how high can they jump?

[shockshockshad]

I am OFFICIALLY getting this tank in the 65 gallon size! http://www.bigappleherp.com/Big-Apple-Pro-Series-Granite-Acrylic-Cages?sc=2&category=4

[Kaga's Kritters]

the crickets wont jump out of the 10gal unless their is something inside for them to climb on first. I have had them in smaller containers than that and they rarely jumped out. im not exactly sure how high they can really jump. i think they are better at distance than height.

[Fishguy2727]

Mealworms wouldn't be the main part of the diet, just a part of a highly varied and balanced diet. When they are young they need a lot more protein (insects), and at any age they need to fill up on their salad before they get offered insects. As with many animals, there are foods they are VERY drawn to naturally because there is something in it they need and that type of food source would be scarce in the wild. That scarcity is why they are so strongly drawn to it (like birds with seeds). I am sharing that all the breeders I know and have talked to rely on mealworms, not crickets, AS A PART of their total diet.

The 65 (48x18x17") would be ideal.

[Kaga's Kritters]

Mealworms wouldn't be the main part of the diet, just a part of a highly varied and balanced diet.


if that is what you were recommending then you should have said that in the first place. your post sounded like you were saying the mealworms should be the main part of the diet.


what breeders do you know that use mealworms more than crickets? over the years i have never heard anyone say to use mealworms much and recommend crickets instead. i have always been told that mealworms should be used as a treat only.

[Fishguy2727]

"I would feed mealworms instead of crickets. They can go in a ceramic bowl and the beardies will have no issue finding them. In addition to gutloaded mealworms I would do the normal veggie salad and try to get them on a high quality pellet. A calcium/Vitamin D3 powder (I use the ultrafine by Rep-Cal) should be put on the mealworms and/or the salad every other day while growing and then about twice a week once adult."

This is my original post in this thread. I stated I would do mealworms instead of crickets and then immediately went on to explain the rest of the diet I would use. I mentioned the mealworms first because that is what was being discussed already.

[Kaga's Kritters]

"I would feed mealworms instead of crickets. They can go in a ceramic bowl and the beardies will have no issue finding them. In addition to gutloaded mealworms I would do the normal veggie salad and try to get them on a high quality pellet. A calcium/Vitamin D3 powder (I use the ultrafine by Rep-Cal) should be put on the mealworms and/or the salad every other day while growing and then about twice a week once adult."


just because mealworms are easier to deal with and feed doesn't make them better. also i have heard of many people having trouble getting beardies to eat the pellet stuff. i think real greens would be better. also they get more moisture from real greens. if the beardie is healthy and a good eater then he wont mind chasing the crickets. chasing them is natural for them and good exercise. any lizard i have ever owned that ate crickets loved to chase them. also i have had lizards that would eat a cricket anytime but wouldn't touch mealworms.

i will ask this question again, what breeders do you know of that use mealworms so much? i gave links to sites that support what i am saying, so what do you have to back you up?

[Fishguy2727]

Again, that was a total diet. A high quality pellet has a good part in a complete, varied, and balanced diet. This would be in addition to the natural salad and veggies, not in replacement of them. I also never say 'don't feed crickets'. I said I would prefer mealworms over crickets. The pellets are not a requirement, but would be very beneficial if they will take them. I never said them chasing crickets is bad in any way, I actually said it was a good thing. As with any animal, if the ideal diet or part of the ideal diet is refused then obviously that will not be part of that individual animal's diet. That doesn't mean it shouldn't even be tried.

Gutloading is a very important aspect of any live food. For many people it is very easy for them to keep mealworms alive for a period long enough to truly gutload them (I have never talked to anyone who has issues keeping mealworms). Many people, for unknown reasons, have a lot of difficulty keeping crickets alive long enough to properly gutload them. Without an adequate amount of time to properly gutload the live foods they are not nearly as nutritious as they should be. Because of this I recommended mealworms.

I talk to many breeders all the time. I go to expos for the store I work for in order to hand pick individual animals to bring in to the store. I always ask what the animals are being fed. When it comes to bearded dragons every time I ask what the breeder is feeding them time after time I get 'mealworms and salad'.

And again, the very healthy looking, very robust bearded dragons are usually fed mealworms, not crickets. The same goes for leopard geckos.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art19177.asp
http://www.dachiu.com/care/abeard.html
http://www.kingsnake.com/gladescs/bearded/
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=824
http://www.reptilecare.com/beardeddiet.htm
http://www.beardeddragonguide.com/food-feeding-lizard-diet-bearded-dragons/
http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/TetraFish/fauna/FaunaContent.aspx?id=240
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearded_Dragon
http://www.sundialreptile.com/
http://www.hancocksbeardeddragons.com/id15.html
http://www.beardeddragontopsites.com/index.php?a=page&id=Bearded-Dragon-Care-Sheet
http://lllreptile.com/info/library/animal-care-sheets/lizards-and-monitors/-/bearded-dragon/

[Kaga's Kritters]

And again, the very healthy looking, very robust bearded dragons are usually fed mealworms, not crickets. The same goes for leopard geckos.


i have seen beardies on crickets more than mealworms that were very healthy. You make it sound as though if you feed crickets and not mealworms that the animal wont be healthy. Feeding mealworms regularly will make a nice fat lizard, but that doesn't mean its healthier than another, it may just be overweight.


just looked at the sites you listed. none of them say mealworms are better than crickets.....here are some quotes from them:

The primary food of choice is usually crickets but they will eat mealworms, king mealworms, Madagascar hissing cockroaches, silkworms, and wax worms.

Mealworms are a smaller worm with a harder outer shell than that of superworms. We feed them occasionally to adults for variety.

Once they are this age you can also offer them Locusts, Cockroaches, Mealworms, Wax worms, Zoophobias worms, Silkworms, Butter worms, Red worms, Earthworms and just about any other worm available. All these should be used as treats though with crickets and greens being the stable part of your Dragons diet.

so they support what i say.......crickets & greens......mealworms as a treat.
still don't see anything supporting what you say about mealworms being better....

[Fishguy2727]

Not overweight but robust, healthy, etc. I wouldn't recommend them if they would make them overweight.

I never implied crickets were bad. That is something that some people may be able to assume if they wanted to, but I think if they look back across all my posts in this thread they should see that in no way am I implying that.

A bearded dragon's diet needs to be varied. When young they need more protein for their growing bodies. Each day they need to be fed a salad. Once they have filled up on that insects should be offered. A high quality pellet can be a very beneficial addition to their diet. Many will not take to pellets immediately. In these cases mixing a little in with their salad can help get them to take the pellets. A powdered calcium and vitamin D3 supplement should be added to the insects and/or salad about every other day when young, and once to twice a week as adults. As adults most of their diet should be made up of salad. Gutloading feeder insects is vital. This helps make the insects much more nutritious. For most people mealworms are easier to keep and gutload, helping to ensure proper nutrition for the bearded dragon. Offering mealworms in a bowl is the usual, and allows the calcium and vitamin D3 supplement to stay with/on the feeder insects until they are eaten. Crickets can also be offered as a way to get these animals moving through their cage.

[Fishguy2727]

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I stated exactly why I suggest mealworms over crickets. They are easier to keep and maintain, making it easier for people properly gutload them. In my experience most breeders prefer mealworms over crickets. They can be put in a bowl and kept with powdered supplements making it easy to supplement them and monitor feeding (crickets can hide in nooks and crannies in the enclosure making it seem like the lizards are eating more than they actually are). I never once said someone shouldn't feed crickets, that their animal will be unhealthy if fed crickets and not mealworms, or anything like that. I stated I prefer mealworms and stated why. If you have such an issue with that please state the exact reasons why you feel mealworms should not be part of a bearded dragon's diet. Otherwise let's just move on.

[Kaga's Kritters]

you kept saying mealworms should be fed instead of crickets, that they are better than crickets, and implying that only mealworm fed beardeds would be healthy and robust. but all the sites you posted (plus many others) say crickets should be part of the staple diet along with the greens........and mealworms should be fed as a TREAT. So i still don't see where you get the idea that feeding mealworms over crickets is better. You first say one thing and then when i disagreed you changed what you said.

you can keep posting the list about the supplements and stuff, we all get that point. the thing is you still keep implying that mealworms should be fed on a regular basis (and more than crickets). this is NOT a good idea. like i said before, just because mealworms are easier to feed and gutload doesnt make them better. they still are more fattening than crickets. if someone wants something easy to take care of and feed then they shouldn't own a reptile! if you are going to do all the work to make sure the heat and lighting and habitat are correct then why would it be such a problem to make sure you fed the right diet instead of just what was easy?

[Fishguy2727]

The extra fat in mealworms is minimal and not an issue.

I am not suggesting them simply out of ease of care. Many people simply CANNOT keep crickets long enough to properly gutload. I cannot figure out why. People do the exact same thing and one person can breed crickets, and the other can't keep them alive more than a day or two. This is one reason why I suggest simply going with mealworms.

Not once did I imply that bearded dragons who are not fed mealworms will not be just as healthy as those that are. Please do not twist my words so you have something to argue against.

This is enough. If anyone else wants to keep this thread going please ask away. I hope the original poster was helped as much as they hoped. If anyone wants I am open to PMs as well. As far as this back and forth overanalyzing of exact wording is concerned, I am done. It is no longer beneficial to the forum or any member of it in any way. Sorry for not wording my statement perfectly the first time.

[Kaga's Kritters]

if anyone reads what all was said they will see what i mean.

i have owned reptiles for many years and done lots of research on many other kinds i haven't owned. i also provide links to sites to back up what i say.


if anyone wants any other info on the proper care of reptiles please feel free to PM me.

[shockshockshad]

Well, I learned a lot from the argument! I think that is the only benefit though. I am just going to go with crickets as that's what most people are recommending. But I will use mealworms as a treat. I think I have enough information. The only question now is: When will I actually get the bearded dragon!

[Kaga's Kritters]

glad we could help. good luck finding the right beardie. they are awsome pets!

[invadertoast]

I'm jumping in a little late here, but if you want to know if someone is a good breeder or not try to search for them on Fauna Classified's BOI, it's full of reviews/experiences.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

[shockshockshad]

I can't get the beardie until after spring vacation, since I don't want someone to care new pet that is just acclimating to its enviroment while I'm away. If there are no good dragons here: http://www.reptilefest.com/ then I will get the one from the online breeder.