Cyling with Bacteria Boosters

[Lady Hobbs]

Often we read where someone will write... they filled their new tank with water, added a bacteria booster and are waiting for their tank to cycle.

Bacteria boosters do not cycle your tank but are simply an aid to help cycle with fish.

The purpose of these boosters is so you can cycle your tank WITH fish. These boosters are designed to hold down those toxic levels so your fish are better able to survive a cycle. "Better able"......not a guarantee of survival and you still will need to do testing of your ammonia and nitrites to make sure your booster is doing it's job. You will still have to do water changes as needed and add more bacteria boosters if you do.

Not all boosters are created equal and some work better than others. The consensus is pretty much that "Cycle" is about useless. "Seacheams Stability" has gotten fair reviews as well as "Tetra SafeStart" and some have done OK with the "Stress Zyme". There are several on the market and I'm sure several others will do as intended. NONE of them are a miracle product and none of them will cycle your tank in just a few days although several like to make that claim.

But to repeat myself, these products do not cycle your tank. Your fish do! These products and your fish are added to your tank at the same time. They are useless if you wait to add a booster once you have high ammonia levels.

On a note here: Bio-Spira is a refrigerated product and is now only sold for Saltwater tanks. Tetra SafeStart is the old Bio-Spira for freshwater tanks and is now a shelf product sold all over and even at WalMart. Bio-Spira is marketed now for only Saltwater tanks.

For any type of cycling, turn those temps up and use a bubbler or airstone to help speed your cycle. ALWAYS USE DECHLORINATED WATER IN YOUR FISH TANKS UNLESS YOU HAVE WELL WATER!!!!!!!!

<<<<<<<<<<<Do Not Use Bacteria Boosters with the fishless cycle>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

These boosters are intended to hold those toxins to a level to where your fish can survive this dangerous time. When you cycle the fishless method, you want those toxins so you can read your testers and have accurate readings. It does little good to bring your ammonia levels up to 5 (with the fishless cycle) then dumping a product in the water that will only reduce it.

Some of the bacteria boosters will skew with your test results. They will not "hurt" your period of cycling fishless but will make it more difficult for you to do accurate testing. You have no fish in the tank so don't waste your money.

Do one or the other. Bacteria booster with fish or a fishless cycle without it.

ADVANTAGES/DISADVANTAGES OF BOTH KINDS OF CYCLING

Fishless (pure ammonia method)
You can cycle a tank in about 2-3 weeks if you do it correctly, keep your temps raised and aerate the tank. You will have no loss of fish life and not have to constantly change water to keep fish alive. Another big plus with Fishless Cycling is you have grown a huge bioload of bacteria and when it is time to add fish, you can practically fully stock your tank all at once. The ammonia you have added each day to your tank is a far larger bioload than you can get from using fish to cycle.

The disadvantage is you have to wait to buy fish and have to look at an empty tank for awhile. Also, some live in area's where pure ammonia is not available to them. (In this case, a piece of raw fish or some raw shrimp in a nylon stocking anchored to the bottom of the tank will work in place of pure ammonia.)

Cyling with fish
You can start adding fish as soon as you get your tank. But....you must start with only a very few, do water changes every few days as the toxins increase and wait about 2 months for a fully cycled tank. You can only stock a very few fish every couple of weeks. Cycling with fish is very hard on fish and you may kill several so you must buy only the hardiest of fish and may not be able to buy those you would really like to keep.

This method with small tanks is especially hard on fish due to the water concentration and levels getting so toxic.
Cycling with fish in much larger tanks works much better as toxic levels stay lower. Danio's are a hardy cycling fish but even this method is a struggle for them without those water changes. You may opt for feeder goldfish if you don't want danio's.

Cycling with fish is never recommended for those small tanks that become very toxic.

[Fraoch]

<<<<<<<<<<<Do Not Use Bacteria Boosters with the fishless cycle>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

These boosters are intended to hold those toxins to a level to where your fish can survive this dangerous time. When you cycle the fishless method, you want those toxins so you can read your testers and have accurate readings. It does little good to bring your ammonia levels up to 5 (with the fishless cycle) then dumping a product in the water that will only reduce it.

Some of the bacteria boosters will skew with your test results. They will not "hurt" your period of cycling fishless but will make it more difficult for you to do accurate testing. You have no fish in the tank so don't waste your money.

Do one or the other. Bacteria booster with fish or a fishless cycle without it.

I've been thinking about this for a while and scratching my head about it.

Aren't bacteria boosters really bacterial cultures of nitrosomona and nitrobacter/nitropira? If so, why can't they help with a fishless cycle? Will they not just "seed" filter media/gravel with the bacteria that will cause the cycle, and as soon as they encounter the nutrients they need like ammonia and nitrite, will these bacteria not just grow?

Do they reduce the toxic levels simply because they contain bacteria that eat these toxins? If so, why would that be bad, provided you replenish the toxins/bacteria nutrients by adding more ammonia?

[Fraoch]

I'm not sure if you can bump a sticky but here goes!:ssmile:

[Rue]

...I also read something (about 2 years ago) that the bacteria touted as cycling your tank are in fact NOT the bacteria that do the cycling...so adding any of them is a waste of time...

However, since reading that one article, I haven't heard any more...so I remain confused...

[Fraoch]

...I also read something (about 2 years ago) that the bacteria touted as cycling your tank are in fact NOT the bacteria that do the cycling...so adding any of them is a waste of time...

However, since reading that one article, I haven't heard any more...so I remain confused...

Big Al's Bio-Support did do something for me, so I'm not sure.

However, thinking about it logically - if these are live bacteria they need a food source to remain alive. The food sources for thes bacteria are ammonia and nitrite. Are they packed with ammonia and nitrite? Doubtful. And even if they were, the concentration would drop to 0 as they stood on the shelf.

If the bacteria were to somehow go dormant it could be possible but then you'd have shelf life issues, they can't remain dormant indefinitely. My small packet of Bio-Support does not have a best before date on it.

These bacteria probably do not go dormant because it's well known that if you stop your filter or remove ammonia sources the bacteria die off fairly quickly.

So you do have a point!

[Fraoch]

I'm going to bump this again because I still can't figure it out!:ssmile:

I can see that using a chemical that eliminates ammonia and/or nitrite would be counterproductive.

I can see that using a chemical that de-toxifies ammonia and/or nitrite (like AmQuel+) is unnecessary because there are no fish to injure, but if the de-toxifier does not disrupt the cycle there should be no detrimental effect.

However I still can't see how using a bacterial booster would be bad here. These promote the growth of the bacteria that cycle a tank, and the bacteria won't care if the ammonia is artificial or natural, they will consume it and multiply. So why wouldn't adding a bacteria booster speed up the process?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

So why wouldn't adding a bacteria booster speed up the process?

The answer lies in metabolic rates. Nitro-sammonas and nitro-bacter/nitro-spira have a maximum metabolic rate at a given temperature. No matter how much food is available to them, they will still only take it in and metabolize it at that give rate.

Furthermore, most of the "bacteria booster" that you buy off the shelf, really contain no live bacteria unless you get it fresh from the production line. They all have a shelf life. Unless the bacteria has a source of ammonia, it will die.

[Fraoch]

Please forgive me, I don't think I understand. Biology was never my strong suit - chemistry and physics is. :)


The answer lies in metabolic rates. Nitro-sammonas and nitro-bacter/nitro-spira have a maximum metabolic rate at a given temperature. No matter how much food is available to them, they will still only take it in and metabolize it at that give rate.

I believe I understand this - the amount of ammonia converted to nitrite and then to nitrate is dictated by the colony size at a given temperature and not by ammonia level. If you want to convert more ammonia, the bacterial colonies must grow.

My understanding is that they will grow to accommodate the ammonia being added on a continuous basis - if there's more ammonia available, the bacteria will grow (yes, the metabolic rate for each bacillus remains unchanged). If this level drops off, not enough ammonia is available and they die off until a balance is achieved.


Furthermore, most of the "bacteria booster" that you buy off the shelf, really contain no live bacteria unless you get it fresh from the production line. They all have a shelf life. Unless the bacteria has a source of ammonia, it will die.

This is where I'm tripping up. I know bacteria boosters are controversial but some here swear by them and they did work for me. I understand that they probably can't be live bacteria, see my post #5. So what is in these products then? Does it merely provide nutrients for the bacteria - but don't they only consume ammonia/nitrite?

If these products promote the growth of bacteria in an environment where there is ammonia and nitrite, I still don't understand why they wouldn't work with fishless cycling.

I'm not trying to be obstinate or anything, there's just something I'm not getting.:11:

[Lady Hobbs]

The whole point in adding ammonia for the fishless cycle is to have a high level of ammonia so you have a huge bacteria load. If you dump boosters in the tank, it neutralizes the ammonia and you no longer know what your readings are.

It will not kill your cycling efforts but it will make it more difficult because you won't know what your true readings are. When everyone was using bio-spira (now Tetra SafeStart) Marineland wrote an article about using it and said themselves if you add the bio-spira once you already have high levels of ammonia in the tank, it will render it useless. In other words, just wastes your money.

This is why the bacteria boosters are added either the day before or at the same time as the fish.

[Fraoch]

Thank you!


If you dump boosters in the tank, it neutralizes the ammonia and you no longer know what your readings are.

Ah, this is what I'm missing - these biological boosters have a secondary effect of eliminating ammonia. So yes, you're adding ammonia, and then you're taking it out.

If all the boosters did was promote the growth of bacteria I can see how they would be beneficial, but if they also eliminate ammonia you're fighting yourself.

Anyone know of any bacteria boosters that ONLY promote bacteria growth, no elimination of ammonia? I could see how they would be useful in fishless cycling.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

THe whole point of the bacteria in the tank is to eliminate ammonia. That is what grows in the tank not matter what. Nitro-sammonas is an ammonia removing bacteria. That is why you either use a bacteria booster and fish or no fish and straight ammonia. The bacteria boost is supposed to simply make the water instantly safe for your fish, that is their whole point. Without fish, there is no need for it.

[Fraoch]

I hope I'm not pestering anybody here.(blush)


THe whole point of the bacteria in the tank is to eliminate ammonia. That is what grows in the tank not matter what. Nitro-sammonas is an ammonia removing bacteria. That is why you either use a bacteria booster and fish or no fish and straight ammonia. The bacteria boost is supposed to simply make the water instantly safe for your fish, that is their whole point. Without fish, there is no need for it.

When you add these boosters, don't they add to your bacteria colonies? Or do they just remove the ammonia and die off (once the ammonia level drops to 0?)

If they were to permanently add to the bacteria colonies, wouldn't this shorten the length of time it takes for the ammonia you add to eliminate itself on its own (i.e. shorten the cycle)? Or do these products just remove the ammonia and go away?

Maybe I actually finally see the light...you need to have a CONTINUOUS source of ammonia (i.e. fish) to keep the cycle going with this stuff. Otherwise they just drop the ammonia to 0 and the bacteria colonies you already have slowly die off until you add ammonia again, causing a step back.

[Lady Hobbs]

IMO, all they really do is hold the toxic levels down to enable the fish to cycle the tank and remain alive. They may add some bacteria but not likely. How long can bacteria live in a bottle? Not.

[Fraoch]

IMO, all they really do is hold the toxic levels down to enable the fish to cycle the tank and remain alive. They may add some bacteria but not likely. How long can bacteria live in a bottle? Not.

Yeah, they would have to have ammonia in the bottle in there with them, and if they did, they'd use up the ammonia in a day or two and die off...

API advertises that their Stress Zyme bacteria are in a "dormant state":

http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/TechSheet.aspx?TechSheetID=29


These bacteria are in a dormant state and become active when added to the aquarium. Stress Zyme has a five year shelf life and does not require refrigeration.

If true, they're able to do something the average aquarist is unable to do: get the bacteria into a "dormant" state because they usually die off after 12-24 hours of no ammonia.

I can see why these products are so controversial, though I will say that Stress Zyme (Big Al's Bio-Support in my case) did help me out, although cycling with fish.

Thanks for all the help and sorry for not getting it!:ssmile:

[telstepien]

Aren't bacteria boosters really bacterial cultures of nitrosomona and nitrobacter/nitropira? If so, why can't they help with a fishless cycle? Will they not just "seed" filter media/gravel with the bacteria that will cause the cycle, and as soon as they encounter the nutrients they need like ammonia and nitrite, will these bacteria not just grow?

I agree. By aiding a fishless cycle through the use of both an ammonia/nitrate source and a bacteria booster, the time at which somebody has to spend cycling their tank will decrease dramatically. This will allow for quicker cycling and a stocked tank in a shorter amount of time.

[Gayle]

I used Top Fin Bacteria Supplement when I very first started out. My tank cycled just fine, with out fish, but I really wondered how it was that bacteria would be alive in that little bottle. It really made no sense to me, so I took it to the lab at school and cultured it. Within 24 hours I had several very nice colonies growing. So I am not really sure what it is in those little bottles or if they really work or not, I have cycled other tanks without it and they took pretty well the same amount of time. It did however produce colonies of some form of bacteria rather quickly and they were strong colonies. If anyone is curious I did a control with dechlorinated tap water just in case, and that grew nothing at all. And we did grow colonies from the same bottle at about a month later, and it reacted the same as the fresh product.

[Abeam47]

I believe they have been able to get the bacteria into a dormant state, and I'm sure it has to do with why any of these products that actually contain bacteria need to be refrigerated. I'm new to all of this, just started cycling my first tank last week, but I've been doing a lot of research on it all. I started doing a fishless cycle with Turbo Start 700 and pure ammonia hydroxide (as in no perfumes, surfactants, etc.). Turbo Start 700 specifically mentions you should only add after there is 3ppm of ammonia, so that the bacteria has food. Within 12 hours of adding the bacteria I had .4 ppm of Nitrites. 36 hours later I was up to 1ppm of nitrites, from what I've read, and what other people tell me, that is very fast. So again I do believe it is possible to get live bacteria in a bottle. I certainly wouldn't trust anything that's not refrigerated, and I don't know about bacterial supplements, that are just supposed to make it easier for them to flourish (but not actually contain bacteria). A lot of what I've read doesn't think they do much of anything.

[Taurus]

IMHO, the best booster is a filter from an established tank and\or media carrying the bacterial colonies. Add fish or another ammonia source, instant cycle. :22:

But Gayle, your study is very interesting.

[Wild Turkey]

IMHO, the best booster is a filter from an established tank and\or media carrying the bacterial colonies. Add fish or another ammonia source, instant cycle. :22:



Agreed.

I know ive said this before, but never on this thread..

The products "tetra safe start" and "api stress zyme" are not designed to "hold down your levels while you cycle" the tank. They are actually designed to cycle the tank, they just arent quite as effective as we would like them to be at the moment. Products like "cycle" are different from these cultures.

Even though some of the other products now claim to contain some bacteria, they may or may not, and still contain other ingredients to yes, chemically lower ammonia and nitrites. Which are really no good in combination and cause more headaches than anything, even if they contain enough of the bacteria.

Heres the ingredient list for Tetra SafeStart

Purified water, patented and patent pending strains of: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira, and Nitrospira.

So yes, its a bacteria culture and nothing else.

Stress Zyme is a little more involved, however they do go as far as to tell you how many million bacteria per teaspoon.

Ive tried a few times but have not yet been successful using it during a fishless. Im not ready to say its not doable, but I dont recommend trying it unless you have the extra tank, money and time to waste.

[Taurus]

Agreed.
Ive tried a few times but have not yet been successful using it during a fishless. Im not ready to say its not doable, but I dont recommend trying it unless you have the extra tank, money and time to waste.

I don't think I would use pure ammonia to try and keep the colonies going either in a tank I planned on keeping fish in.

Colonized media\filter + hardy fish and it should be ok. Of course it will take time for the tank to achieve balance. The time for balance is important...no "sensitive" fish such as Rams or Discus for at least a month or more.

I know when I set up my 10g with media from the 20g while adding a few White Clouds to the 10g, there were no ammonia or nitrite spikes and I had measurable nitrates in about 24 hrs. :22:

[Neon]

I set up the tank , then filled with water added dechlorinator + bacteria booster, plants , and kept fishless for a month , then I added the fish and it worked...why it worked? ...or why shouldn't have ? I'm really confused...

Sincerely your absolute-beginner:22:

[Null]

We seem to have a sticky guide for not using cycle boosters doing fishless and discussion on why you should. Has a meeting of the minds occurred or is the community still split on the issue?

[Lady Hobbs]

It's not a set rule and many do use it during a fishless cycling. They also return with questions as to why their cycle appears to be messed up, the numbers aren't changing on their test kits and other problems.

You use enough ammonia to test 5 on your ammonia test. But the purpose of bac booster is to detoxify to keep water safe for fish so it lowers those ammonia readings as well as nitrites. You then have the person adding ammonia, trying to get a nitrite reading and none of their tests are reading what they think they should read......due to being detoxified.

The instructions on the bac boosters says to add at the same time as the fish. Then is when you do not want toxic water but during your fishless cycle you do.

Your tank will not fall apart if you chose to add bacteria boosters while adding ammonia. I tried it myself just to see the effect it would have and ended up having the longest-to-cycle-fish-tank ever! This article was just to prevent someone from having problems trying to cycle as others have had. I would certainly use the bac boosters if I was not using ammonia to cycle, tho.

[Neon]

..I didn't add any ammonia , I didn't know about it, really i knew very little about cycle. I have learned a lot reading AC:22:

[BirdOfPray]

The instructions on the bac boosters says to add at the same time as the fish. Then is when you do not want toxic water but during your fishless cycle you do.

It actually depends on the product, I think. Seachem Stability, for example, just says to add "on the first day with a new aquarium" and then for a week following. I contacted customer service and they gave me instructions on how to do a fishless cycle using Stability. It worked just fine and my tank was cycled within the week they told me it would take, and only then did I add fish.

I don't know at what point it's safe to declare that my tank is permanently cycled, but I haven't added Stability for a month or so and it's 6+ weeks since I first added fish. I realize that isn't long in the grand scheme of things, but I don't know how long is a fair test. I've done water changes, rinsed my media in old tank water, etc. and the tank is still cycled. I haven't had any fish deaths or illnesses (including during acclimation), which I think would be the case if my cycle was unstable.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as argumentative, because that's really not my goal. I have the utmost respect for those who have been in this hobby for years and learned so much by experience, including you, Lady Hobbs. It just seems to me that maybe the products on the market have changed in recent years and ought to be reevaluated. If you can suggest to me what would be a fair timeframe for the evaluation of Stability, I'd be happy to report back when my tank has passed that mark. For example, if it's still cycled with no problems 6 months from now (without my having added any more of the product to the tank, obviously), would you consider the product as having worked? I don't want to mislead anyone by reporting my short-term results, but I do think that from all appearances so far it's a great product that's not being given a fair chance.

[Lady Hobbs]

I don't find you argumentative at all but simply sharing information. :shappy:

I consider Bio-Spira and Tetra SafeStart probably the best on the market and even Marine Labratories state that bacteria boosters should not be added once ammonia levels get too high or the product is useless. If labs that test this stuff recommend not using with high ammonia levels then it's good enough for me.

Cycling experiences are all different for each of us. Personally, I think water hardness has something to do with it but that discussion might be for another thread. I'm also not saying do not use bac boosters in a fishless cycle but I am saying that it just might not work out too hot for you and you may encounter problems and be here posting and trying to figure out what in heck is going on.......as has been witnessed from numerous posters.

Bac Boosters also work differently.
Adding fish after a week for you worked fine because Seachems Stability is added "daily" for a week. So when you added your fish after a week, your bac booster was fresh and had not been subject to high levels of ammonia.
You also did not use it and ammonia at the same time.

Tetra SafeStart works differently in that it's one dose and added at the same time as your fish altho I'm sure redosed if a water change was needed. Stress Zyme has even different directions in how their product is supposed to help.

I use bac boosters when cycling my 55 gallon tanks "with" fish but the discussion here is bac boosters and ammonia.

I will add that you more than likely stocked your tank intelligently! Not everyone does. :)

[Fraoch]

But wait a second, aren't we talking about two different products here, with two different functions?

Stability, Prime and AmQuel+ are detoxifiers. They remove/sequester ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and would defeat the purpose of cycling with ammonia. However, most of these indicate that they do not make ammonia/nitrite/nitrate "unavailable" to the bacteria, so the net effect would be like you added nothing at all. But some of these will screw up your tests so you won't know how much ammonia to add and when.

Bio-Spira, SafeStart and Bio-Support are bacteria starters (yes, there's some debate about whether they contain live bacteria, but they purport to). If they really do promote beneficial bacteria growth as opposed to just detoxifying when presented with ammonia, then they should help fishless cycling...right? I've only used Bio-Support, the instructions say nothing about it detoxifying ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

Also - not trying to be argumentative here. :-)

[Null]

What would you consider THIS (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752206) as?

[Fraoch]

What would you consider THIS (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752206) as?

Seems to be just a bacteria booster:


Ingredients:
Water, Sodium Chloride, Propylene Glycol, Nitrifying Bacteria.

Top Fin stuff doesn't have the greatest reputation though. Lots of people here swear by Tetra SafeStart. I used Big Al's Bio-Support, it seemed to help too.

[MonkeyPox]

It would probably help the sticky if some of corrected information from the sticky was reexamined. It appears there is some cross pollination between the concepts of using a bacterial booster/supplement to complete a cycle, and using a detoxifyer to maintain a safer tank while the cycle process completes itself.

For example,

"These boosters are designed to hold down those toxic levels so your fish are better able to survive a cycle."

Only applies to one or two of the products mentioned, and is more applicable to products like Prime. Stability, SafeStart, etc... all add bacteria directly to the water column, as GONE pointed out earlier.

Also, the comment in the sticky about still, potentially, taking up to 2 months is not applicable to the products being discussed.

Froach's assessment is correct for the products listed.

[Lady Hobbs]

Good point. Perhaps we should have a list of those that have other purposes. I was under the assumption that all bac boosters work pretty much the same.

[BirdOfPray]

Adding fish after a week for you worked fine because Seachems Stability is added "daily" for a week. So when you added your fish after a week, your bac booster was fresh and had not been subject to high levels of ammonia.
You also did not use it and ammonia at the same time.

The added daily part is a good point -- that probably does make a difference. It certainly wouldn't be easy to maintain a cycle indefinitely without fish. However, I did actually add ammonia while adding Stability. Here are the instructions their online support folks gave me:

Hello,
I am glad you decided to go with the Stability. It is a great product as you soon will see. To fully cycle in about a week, I would recommend adding enough ammonia to get you to about 5ppm of ammonia. Add Stability daily. You will soon after see a nitrite spike and should be fully cycled within a week or so. The 5ppm should keep enough food source in there for the bacteria for a full week so you can add fish very soon after. If you do not end up adding fish immediately after cycling you can add enough ammonia to maintain about 0.5ppm while there are no fish in the tank. This should keep the bacteria alive quite well. Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.
Tech Support 10201

So, I wasn't adding tons of ammonia, but there was ammonia in the tank for the bacteria to process.

Before I bought Stability I did some reading on Seachem's website and learned a little about their claims for Stability. Supposedly they've developed a hardier form of the bacteria that naturally occur and perpetuate the cycle. Their version is supposed to withstand more extreme fluctuations in temperature, pH, etc. They also say it will colonize media and reproduce indefinitely, so in that way it's like the naturally occurring bacteria. They say that while it's in the bottle it's kept in a spore state by an inhibitor that, when added to a tank, is diluted so that the bacteria is then live. Obviously, I can't verify any of this -- it's just the information I found on their website and offered by their tech support while researching their product.

[BirdOfPray]

Stability, Prime and AmQuel+ are detoxifiers. They remove/sequester ammonia, nitrites and nitrates and would defeat the purpose of cycling with ammonia.

Actually, my understanding and my experience is that Stability is not a detoxifier, but an actual bacteria booster. Seachem produces Prime, and it wouldn't make sense for them to sell two different detoxifiers. I just posted some of my research about Seachem's claims for Stability, which should hopefully help clarify it.

I think it would be nice if we could get a good list going of which products are actual bacteria boosters and which are detoxifiers, especially if there are members here who have used them and can vouch for the products. I know I had a really hard time sorting through the information available (on the internet in general, not just here) and wound up just taking a chance because I couldn't find anything conclusive. It seems like maybe the products out there have changed a lot in the last few years and could stand to be reevaluated.

[MonkeyPox]

Actually, my understanding and my experience is that Stability is not a detoxifier, but an actual bacteria booster. Seachem produces Prime, and it wouldn't make sense for them to sell two different detoxifiers. I just posted some of my research about Seachem's claims for Stability, which should hopefully help clarify it.

I think it would be nice if we could get a good list going of which products are actual bacteria boosters and which are detoxifiers, especially if there are members here who have used them and can vouch for the products. I know I had a really hard time sorting through the information available (on the internet in general, not just here) and wound up just taking a chance because I couldn't find anything conclusive. It seems like maybe the products out there have changed a lot in the last few years and could stand to be reevaluated.

Good catch- Stability is not a detoxifier.

I think the simplest solution is to rewrite the sticky and then remove all the subsequent comments.

[Taurus]

Actually, my understanding and my experience is that Stability is not a detoxifier, but an actual bacteria booster.

Stability is neither a booster or detoxifier. Stability is a source of spore state bacteria from my understanding. Dr. James?

[MonkeyPox]

Stability is neither a booster or detoxifier. Stability is a source of spore state bacteria from my understanding. Dr. James?

I think that's a matter of splitting hairs. A boosted implies an aid to something already in existence, which would not be applicable. It would probably be more accurate to label it inert bacterium, both would work for me.

A good litmus test is what google terms would yield frequent results, and I think "aquarium bacteria boosters" or something similar would give you the Stability and SafeStart.

The important distinction is between detoxifiers and bacterial additives.

[Fraoch]

Actually, my understanding and my experience is that Stability is not a detoxifier, but an actual bacteria booster. Seachem produces Prime, and it wouldn't make sense for them to sell two different detoxifiers. I just posted some of my research about Seachem's claims for Stability, which should hopefully help clarify it.

I didn't know Stability was also made by Seachem, sorry.

I would have edited my post, but you can only edit a post 15 minutes or so after it's posted.

[Lady Hobbs]

From everything I've read so far, Stability is to be used just like all other bac boosters. In other words, to help cycle the tank with fish. Again, there is no mention at all of using in conjunction with pure ammonia as would be used in a fishless cycle.

The stickie is not an article discussing the different aspect of each bac booster but of using bac boosters during a fishless cycle.

[Null]

Perhaps this is my ignorance, but why would with or without fish matter? You're using straight ammonia to simulate fish presence, if the product adds bacteria to handle the ammonia what difference does the actual presence of fish make?

All I see as a difference between fishless and a fish cycle is the producer of the ammonia.

[Lady Hobbs]

I unstickied it. Easier to unstickie than continue talking about it and dissecting each word.

[Taurus]

I think that's a matter of splitting hairs.

The important distinction is between detoxifiers and bacterial additives.

Yes, agreed.

[MonkeyPox]

From everything I've read so far, Stability is to be used just like all other bac boosters. In other words, to help cycle the tank with fish. Again, there is no mention at all of using in conjunction with pure ammonia as would be used in a fishless cycle.


You certainly can use Stability (and like products) to perform a fishless cycle. Here's a couple threads denoting it.

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=542
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=140

I think the intent of the product is to use it in a fish-in scenario, and they say as much, but ammonia = ammonia = ammonia.

My suspicion on why they don't recommend, or at least mention the possibility of a fishless cycle is the complicated process of adding ammonia directly by the consumer, in the proper amount. I suspect they would get more complaints on their product with no additional benefit in sales or advertising.

[hannah24l]

Interpet Aqurium Filter Start No.14 - 100ml(XIJ065)
Filter Start: adds bacteria essential to start a healthy aquarium. Filter Start cuts in half the time required to mature a filter. Filter Start should be added monthly once the filter is mature to boost filter function.

what about this stuff?