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Miltonic
12-14-2008, 03:55 PM
In recent days my female Angel has been sick from what it looks like ick and fin rot and have been treating her with Melafix plus some aquarium salt and plan to do a water change tomorrow after the 7 day treatment. she seems to be doing ok and is eating normally but i noticed she has like excess slime around the little long fin that hang down plus she seems to be breeding heavy and her eyes are somewhat blurry. i was wondering if she might have something else.

Ammonia level = 0

Nitrites level = low

Nitrates level = low

Water hardness = around 6.2

Size of tank = 16 gallons

Filtration system = tetra tec

Temperature = 81 F

Age of tank setup = 3 yrs

Number and amount of water changes weekly =

Age of fish <if known> = 2 to 3 yrs

Any recent changes = added yoyo loach to eat snails



heres a pic to see if anyone can spot anything, sorry its a bit blurry and her the male Angel seems to be free of disease so far.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/miltonic/IMG_0066.jpg

Lady Hobbs
12-14-2008, 04:04 PM
Your angel appears to be shredded by the other angel more than fin rot. Ick also hits them when they are stressed and their immune system is down. Angels should NOT be together or even one in a 16 gallon tank. They are territorial, need room to get away from each other and hiding places. Sometimes even that will not work.

Excess slime coat could be parasites and she is losing her slimecoat due to salt treatment. They also don't need that high of temp and I would turn it down to 78.

BigMac
12-14-2008, 06:16 PM
You need to move those angels to a larger tank.
If you do not have more space, you need to take them to the LFS as soon as possible.

Angels need ALOT more space than 16 gal. I just had to remove one of two angels from a 125 because of territory issues.

Miltonic
12-14-2008, 06:42 PM
My angels have always gotten along since they paired off when they were little and I never seen him picking on her.

I'm worried that she won't get better by the time my new 45 gallon tank is ready.


Edit: LFS?

smaug
12-14-2008, 07:07 PM
LFS=local fish shop.Ditto lady hobbs.You mention your nitrites are low?They should be 0,there is no safe level for nitrites with fish like angels,they are very prone to disease and stress from poor water quality.I hesitate to tell you to get rid of your angels because you say you will be putting them in a 45gal,how soon will that happen.If that cant be safely done within the week Im afraid your angels are doomed.

Miltonic
12-14-2008, 07:18 PM
I went out get a test and my nitrates/nitrites are thankfully 0.

I need to get the ph down in my new tank before I can move them over.

I've had this angels in this tank for 2to 3 years with no problem and they have never been sick, until now.

Hopefully my angel will pull through

smaug
12-14-2008, 07:27 PM
I went out get a test and my nitrates/nitrites are thankfully 0.

I need to get the ph down in my new tank before I can move them over.

I've had this angels in this tank for 2to 3 years with no problem and they have never been sick, until now.

Hopefully my angel will pull through
That angel is 2-3 years old?He looks like a 1 year old juvy.The time spent in such a small tank has stunted him for sure.Here is a pic of a 3 year old kept in a large enough tank.He is from tip to tip almost 9.5" tall,and this one was the smaller weaker 1 that a kept because the wild silver was just too aggressive.11909
I am not meaning to attack your fishkeeping but you are fortunate and very lucky to keep angels in such a small tank for so long.Im sure you hope he makes it but you can increase those odds and do more then hope if you get that 45 up and running asap,properly cycled of course.

Lady Hobbs
12-14-2008, 07:33 PM
Absolutely right on, Smaug. You fish is lovely, BTW.

smaug
12-14-2008, 07:38 PM
Absolutely right on, Smaug. You fish is lovely, BTW.
Thank you,,,,,thank you very much Lady:ssmile:

Miltonic
12-14-2008, 07:39 PM
My 45 gallon has been up and running for 3 days with 2 tetras and 2 danios and lots of real plants.

The ammonia/nitrates/nitrites are 0 right now thanks the live bacteria in introduced.

The only thing that is keeping from switching them over is the ph because right now it's at 7.6 compared to the 6.2 in their current tank. I can't seem to be able to find peat wood anywhere to lower the ph and resorted to blackwater extract.

smaug
12-14-2008, 07:47 PM
Ok,I remember your previous thread,here is what you can do.Over the next 2-3 days ,add a few gallons of your higher ph water to the smaller tank,once you get the smaller tank at 7.2 or so you should be safe with adding the angels to the new tank.It will be ok for you to raise the ph in the little tank .5 a day till you get to 7.2.After that do not concern yourself with ph adjustment,it sounds like a lower ph is what you want and that will occur naturally as your newer tank matures.Get the driftwood when you can,that always helps but dont expect a miracle.BTW,its not peetwood your looking for but just plain old driftwood sold for aquariums,that or mopani wood [better choice as it sinks right away]malaysian sinking driftwood is also good.All of them will assist in decreasing your ph but will do nothing to lower general or carbonate hardness.

Lady Hobbs
12-14-2008, 07:54 PM
What you could do is add the water from the 16 gallon to the 45 gallon since it's a lower pH and add your used filter pad from the 16 to the larger tank and even toss in the used gravel from the 16 to the larger tank if you don't mind the same gravel. Put it on top of the new stuff.

Or.........draw out some of the water in the 16 gallon and add some of the water with the higher pH to that tank for a day or two once a day and then move everything over.

Fish are delivered to the stores from fish farms where they are kept in cement tanks. Dumped in store tanks with another pH and then into your own tank with still another. Unless the pH is a shocking difference, they will do fine.

Lady Hobbs
12-14-2008, 07:56 PM
Smaug.........LOLOLOLOL Great minds are thinking the same I see!

Miltonic........you can buy peat pellets, put it in a bag and that will also lower your pH but since they do fine in 7.6, why bother? Just something else to buy and mess with.

smaug
12-14-2008, 08:00 PM
What you could do is add the water from the 16 gallon to the 45 gallon since it's a lower pH and add your used filter pad from the 16 to the larger tank and even toss in the used gravel from the 16 to the larger tank if you don't mind the same gravel. Put it on top of the new stuff.

Or.........draw out some of the water in the 16 gallon and add some of the water with the higher pH to that tank for a day or two once a day and then move everything over.

Fish are delivered to the stores from fish farms where they are kept in cement tanks. Dumped in store tanks with another pH and then into your own tank with still another. Unless the pH is a shocking difference, they will do fine.
I have personally found it tricky to add fish used to a neutral ph to a low ph.For instance,my fish shop I deal with keeps there fish at a neutral and my tank is normally around 6.5.I have had a pretty high mortality rate introducing fish to that tank.vica versa I have had good success adding fish from a lower ph to a higher one.Nothing really meant by this post other then just sharing and a heads up.

Miltonic
12-14-2008, 08:09 PM
Thanks a lot for all your help guys :)

I know what I'll be doing now, everyday for a couple of days I will taking a gallon from my little tank and one gallon from the big tank and adding water from the little tank to the big and vice versa until their ph is the same.

Lady Hobbs
12-14-2008, 08:12 PM
Good tip. I never acculimate my fish anyway. If the temp is off, I put them in a pail, add a couple cups of tank water and let them sit for 10 minutes but going thru an hour of acculimating adds to stress as far as I can see. I want them in the tank and the lights off so they can settle down as soon as possible. I also buy them mostly in town so the pH isn't ever that far off from my own.

Saltwater would be treated differently of course.

smaug
12-14-2008, 08:32 PM
Thanks a lot for all your help guys :)

I know what I'll be doing now, everyday for a couple of days I will taking a gallon from my little tank and one gallon from the big tank and adding water from the little tank to the big and vice versa until their ph is the same.
You could speed it up considerably if you just added the higher ph water to the little tank .it will take way long to flip flop as you say above.The ph doesnt need to be the same,just within .5 .

Miltonic
12-14-2008, 08:37 PM
By when do you think my fish should be in my big tank? I'm thinking by Thursday.

Hopefully my angel will be able to pull through

smaug
12-14-2008, 08:42 PM
By when do you think my fish should be in my big tank? I'm thinking by Thursday.

Hopefully my angel will be able to pull through
asap.If you decrease the ph in your big tank .5 everyday you can have the angels in there by tuesday,add 2 gallons in the morn and 2 in the eve.Replacing the water in the 16 with tap water,of cource this is labor intensive if you have to use water treatment.

Miltonic
12-14-2008, 08:50 PM
Ok that only gives me tonight,tomorrow, and Tuesday to do the water changes to have them in by tuesday night.

I will keep you guys updated.

Miltonic
12-15-2008, 03:16 PM
sorry for the double post.

ok i did something crazy since i noticed my sick Angel wasnt eating today because of the added stress of the water changes and i went ahead and trasnfered all my fish to my new tank. Im taking a huge risk but right all of my fish seem to be doing very well even my sick Angel started to expand its fins again. The other Angel seems to be doing very in the few hours its been in the new tank and enjoys the added space.

Northernguy
12-15-2008, 08:34 PM
Great! Now just monitor your perameters?
You may have a small spike because of all the added fish.If you do have a spike,a large water change should help.
I almost forgot,Where's the pics?

Miltonic
12-15-2008, 09:17 PM
i'll update with pics in a minute of the whole tank and of the Angels. I went out and got 4 baby Angels incase something happens to one of the big ones so far the big Angels and little Angels are getting along nicely and looking great except for my female sick who also seems to be doing a lot better. The new little Angels keep following the big and its the cutest thing.

It seems like my yoyo loach is cleaning the sick Angel of what seems to be a fungus and not fin rot/Ich and hopefully the harder water will eradicate it.

I will be doing 2 gallon water changes everyday this whole week until the bacteria stabilizes.

Miltonic
12-15-2008, 10:17 PM
pic #1 Healthy male Angel

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/miltonic/100_0807-1.jpg


Pic #2

Sick female Angel and yoyo trying to help

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/miltonic/100_0812-1.jpg


pic #3

All the Angels together plus yoyo

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/miltonic/100_0811-1.jpg

Pic #4

My whole tank

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/miltonic/100_0810.jpg

LORENZO
12-15-2008, 10:59 PM
they look good in that shape tank. nice and deep for them. I have angels looking just like that! keep that water slightly acidic and soft! Give them bloodworms that will keep them healthy. Plant it in to help them feel secure. Keep a good balance watch you don't change too much water at once.

Miltonic
12-15-2008, 11:20 PM
Right now the water is rather hard, I got Driftwood and im adding blackwater extract in every water change, now im just waiting for peat wood pellets to arrive.

Just checked the nitrates/nitrates and ammonia and they're all at 0 so far, I hope my female Angel recuperates.

Northernguy
12-15-2008, 11:30 PM
Thats a nice tank! Thanks for sharing.:22:
I wish I could help with the sick angel!

Miltonic
12-16-2008, 03:35 AM
thanks for all the support and i think i wont be able to sleep tonight since its the night where my Angels aren't in their original. I hope she makes it :(

I think the fungus died with the new water because the one piece of driftwood that i transferred from my other turned white in some spots and my yoyo loach seems to be enjoying eating that. any other Angelfish caring tips someone might like to add are appreciated.