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bettaboy691
01-23-2007, 05:21 PM
im not sure where to post this but here goes, my mate has just bought a 10 gallon tank and he wants me to help set it up for him, he wishes to get 2 male bettas, either side of the devider and he also wanted some corys for the bottom,possabily panda oe pygmy. but he thought 5 gallons were too small for a group of cory cats and he thought that 10 gallon would be better, but because of the devider the cory group would be split, he wondered if he could cut a hole in the corner of the devider at the bootom for the corys to swim though therefore being able to have the whole tank to them selves, as bettas are usally top-mid dwellers.i didnt really know the answer and couldnt say for sure so wondered if anyone could help me and my friend,would it be too much of a risk, incase the bettas squeezed though, would he be able to put plants around it, detering the bettas, or maybe some sort of cave.do you think the corys would use it.any other help or hints are welcome. he said if its not possable then he will just go with a few shrimp either side of the devider, or just have one betta with corys in the whole 10 gallon. thanks
p.s he will be filtering and heating and hasn't added any gravel,plants, decorations yet so any suggestions? i recomended small/medium gravel, java moss, java fern, moss balls,small cave and maybe a few marbles/stones to look good.

minabird
01-23-2007, 05:35 PM
bettaboy-

I have a betta in a 28 gal bow tank and he roams the entire tank, including the bottom.

I also have 2 female bettas in a divided 10 gal tank, and they also both roam the entire divider from top to bottom looking for a way to get at each other. They've even tried to bite each other thru the holes in the divider.

From looking at my cories, they are taller than my bettas; I have albinos and emerald green cories. I think the pandas are about the same size as the albinos so they would also be taller than the bettas. So, any hole you cut for the cories to fit thru, the bettas will be able to fit thru. The pygmies might be ok to do this, but I'd imagine once the bettas found the hole, they would try to squeeze thru it to get at each other, and if one of them got stuck, he'd be easy pickings for the other one.

Also, you said you would hide the hole with plants or in a cave. All of my bettas established some territory around a cave or a group of plants that they would use as a home.

My dilema with my female bettas is similar to your friends. I'm thinking about using sand underneath the divider and getting kuhli loaches. The kuhlis would be able to get from one side to the other by burrowing under the divider.

If your friend is set on 2 males with a divided tank, I think the shrimp would probably be the safest bet. Also, don't fill the tank with water to the top of the divider. Bettas have been known to jump out of their bowls or dividers.

cocoa_pleco
01-23-2007, 05:39 PM
Here comes alot of info!:hmm3grin2orange:
First, usually 2 FEMALE bettas can be together with no divider, if there is enough plants and obstacles to go around. 2 MALES will kill eachother like crazy, and if you even have a divider with 2 males, make sure theres plants surrounding the divider or the divider is colored so they cant see eachother.
And, yes, the bettas will still find their way into the other half if you cut a hole in the divider. Put 2 cories in each half, and dont make any holes. The cories wouldnt really care.

for decor, usually go with dark gravel if the betta is bright, or bright gravel if the betta is dark, to draw attention to the fishes colors. Put alot of plants in, preferably live, but fake will do. Put in a moss ball too, because mine filters my tank super well, and they catch alot of debris.
Throw in a cave, and youre all set. :1:

Abbeys_Mom
01-23-2007, 06:09 PM
I would just save time and money and stick with one male betta, or two females.

bettaboy691
01-23-2007, 07:26 PM
thanks for all your replys, i have had experience with 2 females living together well and getting along, plus when ever ive devided a tank with a betta at each side, i have never seem them trying to nip each other, but i do use a coloured devider tho. i was thinking it wouldnt work and did tell my mate not to get his hopes up.i will tell him to either choose 2 corys at each side,one betta and a group of cories or a few females.then again he might just stick with the shrimp.i'll see what he decides and will reply back tell you all if you are interested.
by the way, i think moss balls are a definate as we both like them and they are easy to keep.probally a bit of java moss and a few other plants aswell.

Faith_at_Large
01-23-2007, 07:31 PM
I have a suggestion. While a full 10 gallon tank is not too large for a male Betta, you don't have to divide the tank evenly. I have my tank divider set at about 1/4 of the tank. This will provide my future Betta with sufficient room to spread his fins and still allow for my schooling fish room to manouver together on the other side. And, unless you keep your water sufficiently lower than the top of the divider, the Betta can leap over it (others aquarists have found their beautiful Bettas in tatters when using dividers). If you lower the water, make sure that you are not exposing your heater (Bettas like it warm) - mine is top mounted and if I were to put my water low enough to guarantee my Betta stays put, the water would not be high enough to sufficiently and safely submerge the heating elements - I am interested in protecting my future Betta from annoyances, and do not intend on putting a second male in the tank. If your heater is the fully submersible type, and you lower the water, you can add you second male to the larger side with company (be careful, some Bettas are very ornery and particular about the company they keep); otherwise, get some nice female Bettas for the other side - they can be kept in groups, and will probably be better off in a larger group of 4 or 5 than one or two (but this may be too many fish for the size of tank, and especially with the other considered tankmates - I lost my Betta when he couldn't get along with my Mystery snail - they fought it out and the snail got the last laugh when my Betta managed to beach itself on some plants - long story).

minabird
01-23-2007, 07:37 PM
Here comes alot of info!:hmm3grin2orange:
First, usually 2 FEMALE bettas can be together with no divider, if there is enough plants and obstacles to go around.:

Cocoa_pleco-

Female bettas can be as territorial as the males and do not necessarily get along. I had 3 females in a 10 gal tank with 2 pieces of bogwood and several plants for them to hide in and establish territories around. After the initial gill flaring and minor fin-nipping, a pecking order was established and peace was maintained for 2-3 days. After that, they constantly were at each other, especially the 2 smaller pink females. I thought the larger red female would have been the boss, but the other 2 would gang up on her, and she ended up as low female on the betta pole. The 2 pinks got into it so bad that I removed them from the tank. One had major fin damage and I didnít want to risk any bodily injuries. These are the 2 I have in another 10 gal with a divider. These 2 are still constantly trying to get at each other. If I didnít know better (and maybe I donít) , Iíd swear they were male bettas but not the betta splendens species; there is another species of bettas where the males look like female betta splendensÖcanít remember the species name tho. Iíve heard of some people having luck housing females together as a community, especially if they are from the same brood and have been raised together and never separated. But I tried with store bought female bettas.

bettaboy691
01-23-2007, 07:50 PM
good idea faith,i could tell him to devide a bit of the tank and have betta on one side and another at the other side with corys. i have used deviders before i always make sure its well about water line.and no need to worry about heating, i always make sure betta have heating as they are tropical water fish and NEED a heater.and also a filter with little water movement, i have heard of female bettas not getting alone but have never seen it, all mine have been friends with each other, would you suggest keeping them on their own or in larger groups,speaking of which i have even read articles on sites that say 2 male brother bettas have lived together in a lerger enough tank, but i would never try it myself

cocoa_pleco
01-23-2007, 09:12 PM
mina bird-

Thats weird. I have never had it when 2 females get flared and everything.
Ive even had it when 2 males get along. I think 2 females just dont get along if they are in stress or scared.

bettaboy691
01-23-2007, 09:22 PM
Ive even had it when 2 males get along.
just out of curiosity, how did you manage to keep 2 males together? i have kept them for years and have never tried to keep males together as i thought they always fight and never wanted to take the risk,

cocoa_pleco
01-23-2007, 09:49 PM
i kept the temp at perfectly comfortable, and had a planted 2.5g tank for them. Dont try 2 males, it was dumb luck mine got along. They had passive personalities i guess. Anyone can keep 2 males in a tank over 33g usually, cause the chances they meet are slim

AuroraAustralis
01-24-2007, 12:21 PM
The 2 pinks got into it so bad that I removed them from the tank. One had major fin damage and I didnít want to risk any bodily injuries. These are the 2 I have in another 10 gal with a divider. These 2 are still constantly trying to get at each other. If I didnít know better (and maybe I donít) , Iíd swear they were male bettas but not the betta splendens species; there is another species of bettas where the males look like female betta splendensÖcanít remember the species name tho.

Years ago I was sold a male wild type betta splendans as a female. I wasn't real happy when my long finned male ended up with torn fins after only a few seconds (luckily I realised immediately why she/he didn't run from my male and removed it). It was as it got older however, the most spectacular looking fish. The fins got longer but not alot longer than a female. I'd love another one but have never seen another :o(

Betta pugnax males (which also tend to have a reddish/pinkish brown colouring) could easily be mistaken for female betta splendans, especially when young still.

minabird
01-24-2007, 01:33 PM
Years ago I was sold a male wild type betta splendans as a female. I wasn't real happy when my long finned male ended up with torn fins after only a few seconds (luckily I realised immediately why she/he didn't run from my male and removed it). It was as it got older however, the most spectacular looking fish. The fins got longer but not alot longer than a female. I'd love another one but have never seen another :o(

Betta pugnax males (which also tend to have a reddish/pinkish brown colouring) could easily be mistaken for female betta splendans, especially when young still.

AuroraAustralis-

That's probably what these 2 are. Came home last nite from work and one of them looked like it had a bloody lip and a wound above its mouth and between its eyes. I think he injured himself trying to go after the other one and swam face first into the divider. I think he might have injured his mouth trying to bite the other one thru the tiny holes in the divider. Put in stress coat and melafix to prevent/fight off any possible infection to the wound.

It looks much better this morning. And as soon as I turned on the kitchen lights, they went after each other as soon as they saw one another. They've gotta be male Betta pugnax. I'll have to do some research on this betta species. Thanks for the info.

Faith_at_Large
01-24-2007, 07:58 PM
I have never kept female Bettas; but having owned a male Betta I was part of a Betta forum community and read a lot about the different experiences with both genders. While there are probably exceptions, I suspect that female Bettas are similar in nature to schooling fish. I started by ten gallon tank with three Zebra Danios, but I lost one to the filter intake within the first 24 hours (I learned that it is very good to cover the intake with foam filter material). These are supposed to be schooling fish; however, now that there was only two - one dominant Zebra was very nasty to the smaller Zebra and chased him around the tank quite vicously and guarded the food in the feeding ring to prevent the other from getting any. I had to physically separate them with the divider I had previously placed for my future Betta. The next day I went back to the petstore and picked up some more Zebra Danios. Once in place, I put the separated Zebra back in the main portion of the tank and after a few days, they are all happy together. I still have a bully, but with more fish, it is less of a problem. I now have four happy fish, all eating, all playing together and no further damage being done by any of the fish. While it may be possible to keep only two females together, I have heard more success stories from those who kept larger numbers together, even three may not be enough. As for two males - not likely, but the same is true for the standard sized hamsters (something I have more experience with) - one is good, but never two or more (regardless of gender). However, occassionally, hamsters raised together from the same brood, have been able to be kept together as pairs into adulthood. But, these are the exception not the rule.