What to do, and What to Say???

[mac]

Hi Guys.

I have a slight problem. The 66 gallon tank I set-up for our local library has got a big problem. It has a 8 inch common pleco.

Now the manager is a snobbish up-class know it all type people. And I can't get it into her head that the poor fish is and has been way to big for over 4 months.

I have given her many warning saying that it will damage all the plants, up root them, and possible damage the filtration and heater, which the poor fish has nearly done. But she says he could not and would not do that. and she thinks he would never get past 10 inches, which she thinks is a great size for the tank he is in. But she dose not understand that the tank is far to small for it, and that they need even more room to swim in. And the more I explain the more she thinks she knows more about fish.

I am thinking of not volunteering to help look after their tank any more. I just can't look after it when She wont listen. even the staff know that it is to big. They watch him and turn around in the plants and rocks. He has to break the hygro just to turn at times.

So I have a problem. And that is what to say. I just don't know what to say any more. Like I know one thing I will be tomorrow doing the last water change on the tank, un-till she works out things with her knowledge the hard costly way.


So what would some of you do???

Cheers,
mac

[Wild Turkey]

Sounds like you answered your own question. Dont offer free aquarium maintenance to someone who wont take advice.

[Nobodynotime]

Pull some free willy style covert actions! Just my personal opinion which I wouldn't listen to

[cocoa_pleco]

Dont offer free aquarium maintenance to someone who wont take advice.



ditto to that

[MrDrums]

Offer to replace it with a more suitable fish before you throw in the towel maybe? Other than that, there is not much to do. You can't argue with the head librarian!

[mac]

Hi,
Thanks all for your replays.

I forgot to add, and thanks Drums for bringing it up. I did offered to get them a different type of Pleco even one of the $200.00 Jobs which I would pay for, that keep small, or a Bristle Nose. Which she can et free from a breeder in town. But no She wont even listen.

So thanks again an I will just have to leave it as it is and stop.

Nobodynotime. Pull some free willy style covert actions! Just my personal opinion which I wouldn't listen to

HMM. Lets think. OHHH I know I could HMMMM. I think I will just leave it. But thanks for the thought.


Just one last quick not there is one more manager above her. may-be I could talk to her???.

mac

[Nobodynotime]

guerilla aquarists unite!

[gm72]

Just one last quick not there is one more manager above her. may-be I could talk to her???

Always, always follow chain of command. You have tried with her, now take it to her manager and explain that if your recommendations aren't going to be followed that it really won't be possible for you to continue helping out. Explain your passion for the fish and educate the manager.

[schoolbus]

I hate to see this kind of thing.
Hopefully, in time, She will call You to fix the problem. Until then LOL, You told Her this was coming. Clear Your head.

[mac]

Always, always follow chain of command. You have tried with her, now take it to her manager and explain that if your recommendations aren't going to be followed that it really won't be possible for you to continue helping out. Explain your passion for the fish and educate the manager.

Thank you so much GM72.

You given me a brain wave. I have to look around all internet information about Common Plecos and print it all out, and give it to the head Liberian to look at.

Also could I ask a favor of every one.
who have kept Common Plecos.
Could you all please write up a small report about Common Plecos. So I can have even more information to give them.

Then once I get all the information I will go to the head of the library and the Friend of the Library and Doc [The Animal and fish group for NZ, They can give fines.] And have this of professionally.


Can any one also gives some points I could bring up.

Cheers,
mac

[Harls]

Grab a picture of a really big one, show her that! a good site if u want pics is [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
Harls

[mac]

Grab a picture of a really big one, show her that! a good site if u want pics is [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
Harls

Thanks Harls.
Just so you know I cant get the link to work.

mac

[Poofaye C.]

guerilla aquarists unite!
I'm down, let's do this!!!...............Hey Nobodynotime, how do we get to NewZealand?

[Northernguy]

Find a fake one and switch it out with the live one.
Just tell her it died and its in rigger!:19:

[cocoa_pleco]

Thanks Harls.
Just so you know I cant get the link to work.

mac

i think he spelt it wrong, it should be [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[mac]

I'm down, let's do this!!!...............Hey Nobodynotime, how do we get to NewZealand?

HMM. Well I don't think I have the money to pay for two air tickets. But you might want to try swimming?? Just joking. But no I wished I could. But I can't.

The idea NG is great. But I just remembered that the pleco was donated by the pet shop. I am going to find out if they can recall it. They understand the problem I am in. And they said to her to change the fish every few months to keep them small. So they have found it strange that the pleco has not come back to get changed to a small one.

mac

[mac]

i think he spelt it wrong, it should be [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Thanks Cocoa-Pleco.
It works now.

mac

[Harls]

yea thats the one cocoa, thanks for the adjustment, i'm at school and these keyboards are shocking!
Harls

[mac]

yea thats the one cocoa, thanks for the adjustment, i'm at school and these keyboards are shocking!
Harls

Forgive me if I am wrong but it should be around 2pm your way? How could you be on line?

mac

[Harls]

its 13:08 as i write this, i'm at school, in a computing class * shifty eyes* and nooones watching me LOL. naa i have free time cause i'm tyhe whizz kid of the class so yeah. My choice of free time is to come here, you peeps should feel special!!
we;; with starting up my SW and stuf i have been spending my lunchtimes reasearching for aaaages so i have the knowlege i need, i have found a lot of valuable informtation while at school, so yeah.
Harls

[mac]

hi,
OHH I see.
And sorry we are in day light saving so i forgot to take bake another hr.

Have fun studying. I better do some studying and get ready to go to work.

mac

[Harls]

lol, there aint much studying :P
2 weeks to go ( and counting ) YAHOO!
Harls

[MrDrums]

How fast does a common pleco grow, anyway?

[cocoa_pleco]

How fast does a common pleco grow, anyway?

i would say mediumly fast, i raised some from a few inches to a foot in a couple of years

[mac]

Hi Has grown about 4 inches in length in about 4 months. Also in width 2 inches, and hight 2-3 inches.

To my knowledge they grow to around a foot in the right size tank in around 1 year.

mac

[mac]

Hi guys,
Right now I am changing the water in the 66 gallon Libary tank. This will be the last water change till they manager of the Childrens section get's her act together. Anyway looking at the tank, I can see that I made a slight mistake in the size of the pleco. He is 11 inches long. and he is so cramped. He is smshing plants out of his way in attempt to turn. Poor fish.

Well I will give her one last chance now. Then I am going strait to the head of the libary, and the friends of the libary with a complaint.

mac

[Poofaye C.]

Good luck mac.....tell us how it goes.

[mac]

Good luck mac.....tell us how it goes.


Right well she dose not want to talk. She is to busy with those sales book people. Anyway right now I am composing a letter, which will be written to the manger in question. And I will do a second copy to the head librarian.
Don't worry I will keep you all up dated.
mac

[mac]

Right guys what do you think of my draft of a letter?

It is only a draft. And any comments about what i have written would be useful.

Dear Sue.

Just letting you know that as of my last water change,1/12/08, I won’t be able to do another water change, or general maintenance and fish care, until you remove the Plecostomus. He has grown up to 10 inches. And this size fish is as I have explained on many occasions far to large for the Aquarium that he is housed in.

The tank he is housed in is a 66 gallon tank, which is to too small in 3 ways, and not properly set up in a fourth way.
His potential length is over 23 inches.
The width of the tank is not compatible for the size of fish.
The tank it’s self need’s to be set-up in a better pattern for a Plecostomus to live.
The last reason this tank is not a good home for the Plecostomus is that these fish are create a large amount of waste. And in small tanks like this their is not enough space or plants to remove the toxic waste from the water. Also even is a bigger tank, like a 150 gallon tank you need a filter that is designed for a tank twice that size just to help keep the water clean, from toxic build ups.

This fish’s life is being cut short by this simple act of not wanting to return the fish, and exchange him for a new young small baby Pleco. I am not going to be responsible for the shortening of this fish’s life. And second I also don’t want to show the public bad fish keep practice by keeping this size fish in a 66 gallon. And as far as I know animal cruelty is illegals, and more so when shown in public. He need’s a tank twice the size of the tank he is living in now, to be happy. And even then bigger is even better.

Now if in the future you do decide to heed my instruction and do remove this Plecostomus then I shall consequently resume water changes, and general maintenance on this fish tank. But until that time I am unable to comply with the volunteer work I am doing for the library.

Your sincerely.

Callum Mackintosh.

Cheers,
mac

P>s yes I am scottish.

[korith]

Right guys what do you think of my draft of a letter?

It is only a draft. And any comments about what i have written would be useful.


I think you mentioned earlier that the lfs that donated the pleco, offered to let the library trade in the larger one when it got too large for the tank. I would mention that in the letter. Also I'd run the whole letter through a spell and grammar check, just to edit the mistakes.

[mac]

I think you mentioned earlier that the lfs that donated the pleco, offered to let the library trade in the larger one when it got too large for the tank. I would mention that in the letter. Also I'd run the whole letter through a spell and grammar check, just to edit the mistakes.

Yes I hate mac's spelling checker. It dose not work very well.
And good point about the pet shop returning coment about the large pleco.

I will edit. And repost.

Cheers,
mac

[Lady Hobbs]

What is the point of returning one pleco only to replace it with another? That one will grow and you'll again be in the same fix. What's wrong with a group of corys or a bristlenose?

[mac]

What is the point of returning one pleco only to replace it with another? That one will grow and you'll again be in the same fix. What's wrong with a group of corys or a bristlenose?

She has to have a pleco. Because she wants them. I have said many times you could keep one for a short time. But it will have to be exchanged regularly.

And she said yes to all that. But now she won't do a thing about removing him.

Now as for the Corys, there are 2 species in groups of 4 each.

And the Bristle Nose I have suggested many many times. But no she wont think about. She says the pleco is fine in his tank. :18: :18:

So Hobbs, I don't know how to say it but, I think she is just suborn, snotty up class person, or something like that. One of those I know more than you do. Well if she dose I would like to see what the tank looks like after a few weeks of her maintenance. That is why I can't do much.

And the good news for them is that they can get Bristle Nose free from a breeder in town. So I don't know what the :27: problem? Anyway I am going to have to do it the hard way. But I won't stop till I can have this problem sorted. Even if I have to every week send letters to the news paper complaining about the Library.

mac

[NickFish]

She doesn't care what you do.

If she won't listen to you advice, just stop volunteering. Say if you me to keep running the tank you have to listen to your adivce. Its him or me.

If she doesn't listen to you she doesn't respect you, see how fast the tank crashes when you're not around.

[mac]

If she won't listen to you advice, just stop volunteering. Say if you me to keep running the tank you have to listen to your adivce. Its him or me.

Quite right. I have finished the letter to her. And as of the last water change I am not doing another.

And I think I get what you mean. And you are more than right. it is natural.

If she doesn't listen to you she doesn't respect you, see how fast the tank crashes when you're not around.

I know how fast it will fall. She has Glass Cat-fish. And Pearl Gouramis. And these fish need nice proper water conditions.

And the last tank they had was loverly. Full of BBA BGA and some others. Also the fish where not healthy. A lot where sick. And man they had only ever toped up the water. Never changed the filter in two years!!!!


So I am sad to say, but I am kind of excited to see what happens to the fish tank. But I am hurt and sad for the fish.

mac

[terrapin24h]

I can only add that you should send the email to all involved, so everyone is on the same page and is aware of the situation. Cut the email into 3 sections, just like a thesis. Keep emotion and blatant finger pointing out of it. Some day you are going to want the library people you are dealing with to provide you with a letter of recommendation or act as a resume reference, how you handle this will go along way to showing you can deal with conflict.

Section 1:
Say here you are resigning your post due to the fact that management(do NOT use the managers name, simply say "management") is pursuing an active strategy of what you consider animal neglect with regards to the stocking of this tank, and that as an animal lover is it against your personal beliefs to engage in such abuse

Section 2:
Present here in clear, concise, NOEMOTIONAL points(preferably a bullet-ed list) why the fish's current environment is inappropriate, provide links to multiple(important) sites that provide the information that substantiates your side of the argument. Suggest alternatives to the current arrangement: Different stocking, new larger tank, etc and that the LFS is willing to take the fish

Section 3:
Reiterate that you love helping the library take care of the tank and you are willing to continue to do so as long as the environment is hospitable to the fish

And do a tight grammar and spelling check. Librarians are academics and are all about grammar. GL

--chris

[mac]

I can only add that you should send the email to all involved, so everyone is on the same page and is aware of the situation. Cut the email into 3 sections, just like a thesis. Keep emotion and blatant finger pointing out of it. Some day you are going to want the library people you are dealing with to provide you with a letter of recommendation or act as a resume reference, how you handle this will go along way to showing you can deal with conflict.

Dad is a JP. So he went over my letter and did a few changes. So that is that solved.

And you are more than right about a Character reference. I not only do voluntary work for the library, but many other organizations as well.


Section 1:
Say here you are resigning your post due to the fact that management(do NOT use the managers name, simply say "management") is pursuing an active strategy of what you consider animal neglect with regards to the stocking of this tank, and that as an animal lover is it against your personal beliefs to engage in such abuse

Section 2:
Present here in clear, concise, NOEMOTIONAL points(preferably a bullet-ed list) why the fish's current environment is inappropriate, provide links to multiple(important) sites that provide the information that substantiates your side of the argument. Suggest alternatives to the current arrangement: Different stocking, new larger tank, etc and that the LFS is willing to take the fish

Section 3:
Reiterate that you love helping the library take care of the tank and you are willing to continue to do so as long as the environment is hospitable to the fish

And do a tight grammar and spelling check. Librarians are academics and are all about grammar. GL

--chris

In the end the letter looked like what you have set-up for me. And thank you eve so much for your kind-ness to write this up for me.

And as for the spelling I went through that as best I could. Oxford dictionary and a thesaurus.

I will let you all know what happens with this letter.

Cheers again to all for your help.

mac

[mac]

Hi,
I have news and a half.
Just had a phone call from the manager from the library. They are not willing to lose me. and they are going to remove the pleco. When I am in town next.
Now I have a problem with the LPS. They won't exchange the fish with out a $8.00 charge. O well I will have to sort that out to.

Anyway all is sorted out.

mac

[Gemini]

Good work mac!! So glad it all worked out in the end. You did the right thing and I'm glad it all worked out!

[Poofaye C.]

WOW, GREAT JOB mac!!!! Great advise terrapin gave, seemed spot on!!
Incredible determanition young man. So many of us see problems, and for one reason or another do nothing. You followed up, nice job!!!

[mac]

WOW, GREAT JOB mac!!!! Great advise terrapin gave, seemed spot on!!
Incredible determanition young man. So many of us see problems, and for one reason or another do nothing. You followed up, nice job!!!


Thank you all for your complements.

And i don't know what to say. I am embarrassed. Actually no I can say this though that Dad and MUm have taught me well. So i give a big thanks to them.

mac

[Sharon]

That's great news, Mac! :19: You sound like a splendid young person!!! Your Mom and Dad have taught you well! Congrats on getting it sorted, and ... for just being you!!!:19:

[mac]

That's great news, Mac! :19: You sound like a splendid young person!!! Your Mom and Dad have taught you well! Congrats on getting it sorted, and ... for just being you!!!:19:


That is what parents are for, right. Teach th up and comming young the tricks of the trade, to get things done right.

Cheers all.

mac

[William]

very well done. congratulations.

[Red]

congrats man!

[terrapin24h]

Mac--
good job getting it sorted, and congrats

--chris

[mac]

Hi,
Thank you all very much. Much appreciated.

Cheers,
mac

[mac]

Hi guys,

I thought you might want to look at the final letter that I sent them.


2nd December 2008

Dear Sue,

Please be advised that as of my last water change (01/12/08), I will not be able to do another water change, or general maintenance and fish care on the 66 gallon bow front aquarium, until the removal (or permission for removal) of the Plecostomus. This fish has grown in size to 10+ inches. This size fish, as I have personally explained on many occasions, is far too large for the library Aquarium that he is contained in.

This tank is only a 66 gallon tank, which is far too small in 3 ways, and not properly set up in a fourth way:

The Plecostomus’ potential length is over 23 inches;
The width of the tank is not compatible for this size fish;
The tank itself needs to be set-up in an environment designed for a Plecostomus - for example, large log, constructed caves, robust plants and appropriate rock work;
Finally, this tank is not a good environment for the Plecostomus because these fish create a large amount of bio-dump (waste). In small tanks like the 66 gallon, there is not enough filtration, water, space or plants to remove the toxic waste from the water.
So as I have already re-explained to you on many occasions, this 66 gallon tank is far too small for this size of fish.

Sue Howe, Manager of Howe’s Pets had previously organised that this Plecostomus could be exchanged when he became too big for the community tank. This arrangement was to be perpetual. This Plecostomus’ life is being cruelly shortened by this simple act of not wanting to exchange the fish for a juvenile Plecostomus.

Please take notice that I can not be responsible for the shortening of this fish’s life, and secondly, I do not want to show the public bad fish-keeping practices by exhibiting a Plecostomus of this size in only a 66 gallon tank, which is a punishable offence in many European countries. As far as I am aware animal cruelty is illegal, and more so when displayed in public places. It is more than obvious that this fish needs a tank at least twice this size he is living in now to feel contented in his environment.

If in the future you do decide to follow the above instructions and exchange the Plecostomus for a juvenile or another variety, for example a Bristlenose (Ancistrus spp), then I shall subsequently resume water changes and general maintenance with the Library aquarium, if you so desire. Until such a time, I am unable to comply with the volunteer work that I am presently undertaking for the Timaru Children’s Library, due to the reason of not wanting to aid and abet in this cruelty to the Plecostomus, and do not want to present myself as a bad example to the young people that frequent this library.

Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.

Yours sincerely,


Callum Mackintosh.

mac

[Northernguy]

She is obviously not your stereo type librarian.
I like the letter.Its to the point and you are standing up for what you beleive in.Its too bad you aren't in Sweden ! I believe thats one place its illegal.
Here ill egal is a sick bird!