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cephei
11-11-2008, 10:50 AM
Hi guys,

I want to do a fishless cycle but I cannot get pure ammonia in Ireland! All products here are household and have additives..

I just read that it is possible to do a fishless cycle by addings frozen prawns in a little netting to the tank..

Can anyone shed any light on this technique? I have a 40 gallon tank how many prawns should I use etc, when to change them...

Many thanks

Lady Hobbs
11-11-2008, 12:15 PM
Heard of others doing this. They put the prawns in a nylon stocking and weight it down on the bottom of the tank. It gets pretty smelly but being underwater helps.

If you know of anyone who has fish there, get some of their used filter media and you won't even need to use the prawns. With used filter media you can stock fish slowly and they should do fine. Maybe the fish store would give you some of theirs, providing their fish are disease free?

Make sure you use dechlorinated water no matter how you cycle.

cephei
11-11-2008, 02:11 PM
Heard of others doing this. They put the prawns in a nylon stocking and weight it down on the bottom of the tank. It gets pretty smelly but being underwater helps.

If you know of anyone who has fish there, get some of their used filter media and you won't even need to use the prawns. With used filter media you can stock fish slowly and they should do fine. Maybe the fish store would give you some of theirs, providing their fish are disease free?

Make sure you use dechlorinated water no matter how you cycle.

Thanks for the tip. If I get used media from the LFS how long should I leave it running before adding fish?

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 02:40 PM
This and similar methods will work, but get VERY messy. I would check online for the pure ammonia first.

If you get used media you want to introduce fish asap so the bacteria in the media doesnt die.

I would shy away from taking media from LFS...better to get it from a friend if possible IMO. LFS have too high risk of disease and such, especially if they keep turtles and frogs in the system

ILuvMyGoldBarb
11-11-2008, 02:42 PM
Actually WT, if you use the nylons as Hobbs mentioned, it helps contain the decaying prawns and thus cuts down on the mess. I still prefer the pure household ammonia method though.

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 02:45 PM
Actually WT, if you use the nylons as Hobbs mentioned, it helps contain the decaying prawns and thus cuts down on the mess. I still prefer the pure household ammonia method though.

Yea sorry i should clarify, not much mess in the tank if you are careful, i mean the mess of dealing with how much all my stuff stinks for a while after, and dealing with that without undoing the work youve done.

cephei
11-11-2008, 02:45 PM
I just found this... Its on a fish site and they sell it in my local shop but I didnt know if it was ok..

It just says it has ammonia.. No ingredients....

http://www.africanaquatic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=130

Anybody used or seen this before?

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 02:46 PM
I just found this... Its on a fish site and they sell it in my local shop but I didnt know if it was ok..

It just says it has ammonia.. No ingredients....

http://www.africanaquatic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=130

Anybody used or seen this before?

Havent used it but looks like its right down ur alley. even says "used for fishless cycling". Good job

Northernguy
11-11-2008, 02:59 PM
Another product I have never seen.It reads like the right stuff.
Have you got a liquid test kit yet?

adityaduggal
11-11-2008, 04:31 PM
I have come across a product by the name LIQUOR AMMONIA I would like to get confirmation from ppl here is it safe to use LIQUOR AMMONIA in fishless cycling. I got this from a PHARMACY shop here in India and apart from LIQUOR AMMONIA the bottle doesnt say anything. Can any 1 shed some light on this, I need to get my cycling started ASAP?

I have also checked the bottle by Shaking it very well and there is no froth of any sorts (read somewhere that shaking a bottle confirms whether it has some kind of surfactants mixed).

cephei
11-11-2008, 04:33 PM
Another product I have never seen.It reads like the right stuff.
Have you got a liquid test kit yet?

I have a liquid test kit already.. The one I use is the Interpet master kit.. I bought a different recommended ammonia test today its a tablet one supposed to be very accurate..

What should I do next with regards to adding the ammonia to the tank?

how much do I need for a 40 gallon tank.. Im really clueless about this particular subject..

Thanks again

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I have come across a product by the name LIQUOR AMMONIA I would like to get confirmation from ppl here is it safe to use LIQUOR AMMONIA in fishless cycling. I got this from a PHARMACY shop here in India and apart from LIQUOR AMMONIA the bottle doesnt say anything. Can any 1 shed some light on this, I need to get my cycling started ASAP?

Liquor ammonia just means ammonia in water, you still need to check the ingredients like usual, shake it up and check for bubbles if there arent any probably no soap...but i still would go with something that lists the ingredients to be safe.

cephei
11-11-2008, 04:43 PM
heres the source...

http://www.africanaquatic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=130

cephei
11-11-2008, 05:21 PM
Can someone please explain to me how the PPM measurements work? All my parameters test kits are measured in 'mg' and im not sure how to work out the ppm? Cheers

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Can someone please explain to me how the PPM measurements work? All my parameters test kits are measured in 'mg' and im not sure how to work out the ppm? Cheers

Answered this in ur other post, check it

adityaduggal
11-11-2008, 06:09 PM
Can someone please explain to me how the PPM measurements work? All my parameters test kits are measured in 'mg' and im not sure how to work out the ppm? Cheers
PPM (Parts per million) and mg/L (milligrams/litre) are same thing, looks like me and Cephei are at the same stage. I myself got the test kits today and got to know this info today itself. I hope to use LIQUOR AMMONIA to good effect. I am sure of the detergent not being present as it is from a PHARMACY Shop and the company manufacturing the Liquor Ammonia is making medicines only so I keep my fingers crossed.

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 06:13 PM
PPM (Parts per million) and mg/L (milligrams/litre) are same thing, looks like me and Cephei are at the same stage. I myself got the test kits today and got to know this info today itself. I hope to use LIQUOR AMMONIA to good effect. I am sure of the detergent not being present as it is from a PHARMACY Shop and the company manufacturing the Liquor Ammonia is making medicines only so I keep my fingers crossed.

They are not the same, you need a conversion calculator to figure it out in ppm if your tests show mg.

Ok here we go, more research says they are close enough to the same to not be worried about it. Technically other factors will affect converting a solid measurement unit to a liquid one, like water density, thats why the calcs exist. Sorry about the confusion.

cephei
11-11-2008, 08:49 PM
Yea I checked it and they are almost the same.. I also found a thread where someone had used the ammonia I got so I followed their guidlines.. It worked out to be 18mls for 40 gallons.

How long should I wait before taking another ammonia test? And in a few days if my ammonia had dropped from 5ppm to zero what does that mean for my tank other than bacteria is alive? If bacteria is alive how long more do I need to cycle for etc..whats my next step?

fins_n_fur
11-11-2008, 09:02 PM
To keep your cycle going (and not stop and not stall) you need to adding enough ammonia to keep your ammonia readings about 4-5ppm a day. Once you see nitrites, then you can reduce the amount of ammonia so that it's about 2-3 ppm per day. Have a look at this sticky (http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5640) to see if it helps. It is very unlikely that your ammonia will drop that low that quickly (unless you stop adding it of course) or unless you are using filter material from an existing tank.

Edit: Forgot to add, as you are doing fishless, I'd turn the heater up to about 30C/86F, and aeration (air stone, for example) if you can.

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 09:07 PM
Yup you need to check the A lvl everyday and correct accordingly. Like i said there is really no shortage of info on this subject, and opinions for that matter. Browse the site, probably 1 out of every ten posts has mention of the fishless cycle

cephei
11-11-2008, 09:13 PM
Yup you need to check the A lvl everyday and correct accordingly. Like i said there is really no shortage of info on this subject, and opinions for that matter. Browse the site, probably 1 out of every ten posts has mention of the fishless cycle

Ok cool thanks for all the help.. As im looking to see if bacteria is still alive in the filter shouldnt I get the level of A up to 5ppm and then leave it for a few days to see if it goes away? And if the levels dont drop shouldnt I just continue with the fishless cycle?

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Honestly, i would just go about it assuming there is no bacteria, and since you will be checking the A everyday, post the results for the first week on here and we will be able to tell you if it is cycled or not. Adding ammonia to the tank wont hurt the bacteria unless you add waaaay too much, so dont worry about that.


If there is not bacteria, the A should not drop very much at all, and u should only find urself adding a few drop a day if that for a while. If there is bacteria you will notice as the A will drop quite a bit in a day, say maybe 1ppm its impossible to guess but 1ppm in a day would certainly theres bacteria for sure. In which case you need to check the NI and NA to make sure, and then if it is truely cycled, maintain about 3ppm as long as there are no fish in the tank to keep it alive.

fins_n_fur
11-11-2008, 09:22 PM
Please read the sticky that I linked to in my response, it will help you to understand the whole picture. As you just started to cycle, there is probably no bacteria in your filter media or other parts of the tank yet. That's why you to test for ammonia nearly every day and add enough ammonia to keep to 4-5 ppm until you see nitrites.

cephei
11-11-2008, 09:47 PM
Please read the sticky that I linked to in my response, it will help you to understand the whole picture. As you just started to cycle, there is probably no bacteria in your filter media or other parts of the tank yet. That's why you to test for ammonia nearly every day and add enough ammonia to keep to 4-5 ppm until you see nitrites.

I'll check it now thanks a lot!

cephei
11-11-2008, 09:58 PM
Just took an ammonia test with my new tablet tester kit and after adding 360drops of ammonia I should be at 5ppm now but im only at 0.1ppm?

Any ideas?

mrs fishpatrick
11-11-2008, 10:03 PM
Hi Cephei
, I am actually cycling a tank with the frozen prawn at the moment, at this stage is has nearly comletely desintegrated so the cycling is nearly done, If you need some filtermedia, I am about to replace the filterfloss in my externall on my other tank, it is yours if you want it.
Astrid

cephei
11-11-2008, 10:11 PM
Hi Cephei
I see U are in my neck of the woods, were did u manage to get your ammonia, I am actually cycling a tank with the frozen prawn at the moment, at this stage is has nearly comletely desintegrated so the cycling is nearly done, If you need some filtermedia, I am about to replace the filterfloss in my externall on my other tank, it is yours if you want it.
Astrid

Hi Astrid,

Nice to see a fellow Dubliner on this forum! I stumbled upon 'Jeyes Kleen off' for 4.50 in 'Expert Hardware' in Dunlaoghaire.

If your talking about changing your bio sponge I'd be only delighted to get it from you that would make life so much easier setting up the tank! If you could PM me your whereabouts that would be great!

mrs fishpatrick
11-11-2008, 10:16 PM
Hi
its the floss from my tetratec 700, it has been in there for a few weeks and my tank is clean, I even have fry at the moment so the fishies in my tank must be happy.

cephei
11-11-2008, 10:29 PM
Hi
its the floss from my tetratec 700, it has been in there for a few weeks and my tank is clean, I even have fry at the moment so the fishies in my tank must be happy.

If its a cotton like floss I think it just stores dirt I dont think it stores the bacteria but I could be wrong..

cephei
11-11-2008, 10:59 PM
I wasnt convinced with reading i was getting from the tabs whish i bought today.. so I tried my liquid test and im getting a much more realistic reading after adding the ammonia.. It is definitly 4.0mg/l + (4pps)+

My tester reference only goes to 4pps so it could be more...

Any ideas?

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 11:09 PM
Get a new test, up to 4ppm is not enough. If u cant do that, take it to down 3ppm so u can monitor it more easily, and u know it isnt above what its actually reading. Warning: it will take longer at 3ppm and having a good test is important so if u can, buy a new test.

cephei
11-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Get a new test, up to 4ppm is not enough. If u cant do that, take it to down 3ppm so u can monitor it more easily, and u know it isnt above what its actually reading. Warning: it will take longer at 3ppm and having a good test is important so if u can, buy a new test.

I just spent 20 on this new test today which was supposed to be the best... so annoyed now! My ppm is definitly at least 4ppm.. Im gonna leave it and check back in 24-36 hours to see if that changes at all..

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 11:48 PM
I just spent 20 on this new test today which was supposed to be the best... so annoyed now! My ppm is definitly at least 4ppm.. Im gonna leave it and check back in 24-36 hours to see if that changes at all..

Right but if its up at say 10 ppm this can negative effect your efforts as well, so you need a test thats going to show you AT LEAST up to 10, i cant believe the test doesnt honestly, could you be reading it wrong? What does the sheet that it came with look like for comparing the color of the test?

cephei
11-11-2008, 11:53 PM
Right but if its up at say 10 ppm this can negative effect your efforts as well, so you need a test thats going to show you AT LEAST up to 10, i cant believe the test doesnt honestly, could you be reading it wrong? What does the sheet that it came with look like for comparing the color of the test?

Its the ammonia liquid test in the 'interpet master kit'
The color chart starts at a pale yellow color for 0.0mg/l then gets gradually darker through shades of green and finishes on a kind of turqoise color for 4.0mg/l

As discussed earlier im assuming 4.0mg/l is approx 4ppm..

Wild Turkey
11-11-2008, 11:57 PM
Its the ammonia liquid test in the 'interpet master kit'
The color chart starts at a pale yellow color for 0.0mg/l then gets gradually darker through shades of green and finishes on a kind of turqoise color for 4.0mg/l

As discussed earlier im assuming 4.0mg/l is approx 4ppm..


Hmmm. Yea thats crazy. If possible i would return it and get my money back, or store credit and grab a new one. Take them out of the box and look at them if you have to.

I have two tests for A, one goes up to 8.0 other up to 10.0 im sure you can get them higher though. But for now you absolutely need one thats 6.0 or above so u can maintain 5.

Like i said, if you absolutely cannot do that (y i havent a clue) then water change it down to 3ppm and maintain 3ppm. This way you at least know where the ammonia level is and it cant sneak up to ten without you knowing it. If you accidently overload the tank it will take much longer to cycle.

cephei
11-12-2008, 05:08 PM
I brought it back and got a credit note from the shop.. Didnt ask for cash back im gonna be buying plants for my tank there in a few days so I'll use it for them...