snail eating loach?

[artemisblossom]

Are there any loaches (hopefully smaller) than clown loaches that will help rid the tank of a snail infestation?

[angelcakes]

hello,zebra loaches,yoyo loaches them 2 are great example snail eaters and wont grow like clown loaches:19:

[artemisblossom]

thank you I will look for them at my lfs today

[mac]

Hi,
Yes some Loaches do each Snails but that is not want you want to do.

Having snails in your tank means imbalance of something in your tank. Like over feeding. They only start breeding in plague proportions when there is plenty of food to eat. And that dose not mean fish food. It also means algae and dying plant matter.

Before you buy any Loaches could you make show you are not over feeding your fish.

Anther thing with Loaches, they are not a clean up fish. They regular water changes, 50% a week. They need fast flowing water, though some do live in sluggish streams up like most of the other Loaches. They also like Logs in tank, simple plants, fine gravel, and hiding places. They also require some work with feeding them, they like a varied diet of foods. But the main thing for these fish they like to have plenty of room to swim in. Really the minimum size tank for most loaches is 40 gallons. So there is a lot to think about before buying these nice active inquisitive fish.

Now to help with your snail problem, try cutting back on your feeding of your fish, and make show your tank is clean from all sorts of deb-rea.


mac

[artemisblossom]

they would be going in the 55 gal tank. There is a lot of driftwood and hiding places. The tank is overrun with small snails that came in on some plants, I remove about 2 dozen a day. ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, nitrates are 10 or less, when it gets to be a little more than 10 I do up to a 50% water change and throurally clean the gravel. I do weekly water changes of about 30%. I have tried to use lettuce to trap the snails but that doesn't work very well. There is no algae that I can see. I may be over feeding the fish but I think I would have to completely starve them to cut down on the snail numbers. I really like the looks of the yoyo loachs, my lfs only has 2 in stock and I was thinking of getting them tomorrow

[smaug]

It depends on what type snails you want eaten.MTS are safe from almost any loach if not all.I have never seen my yoyo so much as look sideways at an mts.

[artemisblossom]

I am not sure what they are I think they are called pond snails. They don't grow very big but i seem to have thousands of them. I do have a GMS but I am moving him to one of my other tanks

[smaug]

mts snails are the cone shaped buggers.

[mac]

they would be going in the 55 gal tank.

55 gallon tank is a perfect size for most medium size Loaches.


There is a lot of driftwood and hiding places.

That is great.


The tank is overrun with small snails that came in on some plants, I remove about 2 dozen a day.

I know what you mean, with the snails coming from the plants. It is a real pain. But they should only be a few to none in a tank, unless their is enough food for them to live on. And if their is to much food, then they multiply to the demand of food available.


ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, nitrates are 10 or less, when it gets to be a little more than 10 I do up to a 50% water change and throurally clean the gravel.

You should not wait for your Nitrates to get over 10. When it is around 10 you should be doing immediate water changes. Because there is toxic Nitrates in the water which can harm fish, even in small amounts like 10. But even that small amount will place stress on the fish. And Loaches live in very clean fast flowing stream which have very clean water. So the Nitrates should be down to 0 before even adding them.


There is no algae that I can see.

That is great.


I may be over feeding the fish but I think I would have to completely starve them to cut down on the snail numbers.

No you wont have to starve your fish. Just half the amount of food you give them. How many times a day do you feed them? Once a day is best, that is not including cat-fish. What other types of fish do you have and how many of each? Also how many say tea spoon would you feed your fish, when you feed them?



I really like the looks of the yoyo loachs, my lfs only has 2 in stock and I was thinking of getting them tomorrow

These are nice active fish. But they like to be in a much larger group 5-6 would be the minimum. See if you can get more of them.


mac

[smaug]

I have 2 yoyos and they are quite happy and fat.They dont need a bigger group,especially if that puts you with too many fish.

[mac]

I have 2 yoyos and they are quite happy and fat.They dont need a bigger group,especially if that puts you with too many fish.

It dose not matter if they are happy in just two. And at least two is better than one. The fish have gotten use to just having each-other for company.

As every-one knows who have done lot's of extensive research into Loaches, understand that these fish bare for some of the extremely aggressive loners like Zipper Loaches, that they all like to be in schools of up to 100+ fish.
Now we have taken these fish out of the wild and are keeping them in captivity. And even if they are captive bread their genetic DNA has still passed on from the parents that in the ild they live in large shoals. So you are saying we should make their life un-happy by keeping them in only simple schools of hardly any individuals with which they can interact with. One it is cruel to the animal, and second irresponsible for us to be doing that to the fish.

So please don't keep any fish that are schooling fish in small groups.

mac

[smaug]

It dose not matter if they are happy in just two. And at least two is better than one. The fish have gotten use to just having each-other for company.

As every-one knows who have done lot's of extensive research into Loaches, understand that these fish bare for some of the extremely aggressive loners like Zipper Loaches, that they all like to be in schools of up to 100+ fish.
Now we have taken these fish out of the wild and are keeping them in captivity. And even if they are captive bread their genetic DNA has still passed on from the parents that in the ild they live in large shoals. So you are saying we should make their life un-happy by keeping them in only simple schools of hardly any individuals with which they can interact with. One it is cruel to the animal, and second irresponsible for us to be doing that to the fish.

So please don't keep any fish that are schooling fish in small groups.

mac
Oh dear,please don't go there with me.As fish keepers we routinely keep fish in less then optimum conditions with great success.Neon tetra school in the tens of thousands,does that mean we can t keep 6.That same number can be quoted for any number of commonly kept fish.It is not cruel,that is an overreaction on your part and is subjective.If you wish to truly split hairs then what you are saying can be directed at almost any animal commonly kept by humans.

[KingFisher]

A couple months ago, Dave66 wrote an excellent primer on loaches. Here is a link:
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=27094&highlight=loach+primer
Hope it helps.

[mac]

Oh dear,please don't go there with me.

Why not. It is a relevant discussion on proper fish keeping practices.


As fish keepers we routinely keep fish in less then optimum conditions with great success.

Yes you are very correct here. But it is hard to keep every fish we want o in the right environment. That is why we should be careful what we buy, and that they are have very similar water parameters. Like Congo Tetras,and Munubs. Two totally different types of fish. Two totally different types of water conditions. And these from general fish keeping knowledge, that these two species should never be kept together at all. It is the same with Discus and The Boti Loach Species. One they all have pretty much the same water parameters. But different feeding needs. Also their is another problems to make discus at home they like sluggish moving ponds rivers and swamps. While Loaches like fast moving water, and high oxygen content. The oxygen content is the same with pretty much all fish. So their is another problem. Incompatible fish in incompatible environments. Now yes Dwarf Loaches and Golden Zebra Loaches would be perfect candidates for living with Discus, that would be true. And their would not be to much of a problem.


Neon tetra school in the tens of thousands,does that mean we can t keep 6.


Obviously you don't understand. Right because they live in 10,000+ schools
of fish. That way they have safety in numbers.

What you are saying is because they live in so large schools, why not do as I say keep them in large schools. Well yes go a head. If I was aloud a 1000 gallon tank I would keep them in ever so large groups but I cant. So we have to come back down to earth and talk about a 20 gallon tank. Now the minimum amount of fish like most people say is 6 for Neon Tetras. And you know the reason. Safety security, the ability for the fish to interact with each-other and so on. If you have less fish in the tank say only 2, you will find, and ever-one who has kept Nones will have to agree that they are not as active very shy and don't really come out of hiding. So that is great. Two timid fish kept in a tank large enough to have 6+ Neon Tetras.

It is the same thing with the Loaches. Yoyo Loaches are a hyper active fish if kept right. And trust me, I have kept these fish and I do know that they don't mind much to be in a group of two. But when you keep them in a school of 6 or so, they become adventuresome happy active fast moving fish.


That same number can be quoted for any number of commonly kept fish.

Yes and Know. It depend on the fish species.



It is not cruel,that is an overreaction on your part and is subjective.

No it is not a over reaction on my part. It is just common fact, added with my own fish keeping experiences along with a friend of mine who has kept sold and maintained marine fresh water tank for over 70 years. It is no over-reaction. It is just stating the obvious, that fish that are schooling fish should be kept in a school of 6 fish. And not in a group less than 6. That way the fish are able t have a little more interaction together, even if it is not the same as in the wild where it is 100s to 1000s times bigger schools. At least you are giving the fish a chance.

And as for being subjective I should say not. It is far from subjective. Tis is subjective.

Example.
2x Lemon Tetras.
3x Neons.
1x Cory Catfish.
1x Up-Side Down Catfish.

For a 20 gallon tank.

Now you will say that is stupid subjective and not right. Well if you take what you are saying to the extreme then you would get this. And that is then subjective.



If you wish to truly split hairs then what you are saying can be directed at almost any animal commonly kept by humans.

Very true. And very correct. But again it all depends on the animal critter and creature in question.

mac

[artemisblossom]

ok well I intend on getting more than just 2. The lfs only has 2 right now. I don't think I will get more than 4 altogether as I think it would overstock my tank. The tank is probably a little overstocked as it is I have a snowball pleco, bristlenose pleco, gold gourami, 7 bronze cories, 2 butterfuly rams, 5 adult platy and about 10 platy fry (which will be given away when they are a little bigger) and 3 guppies. I have good filtration with a fluvol 404 filter. I have a bubble wall and there seems to be a good current coming from the filter.

[artemisblossom]

ok well I intend on getting more than just 2. The lfs only has 2 right now. I don't think I will get more than 4 altogether as I think it would overstock my tank. The tank is probably a little overstocked as it is I have a snowball pleco, bristlenose pleco, gold gourami, 7 bronze cories, 2 butterfuly rams, 5 adult platy and about 10 platy fry (which will be given away when they are a little bigger) 2 SAE and 3 guppies. I have good filtration with a fluvol 304 filter. I have a bubble wall and there seems to be a good current coming from the filter.

[mac]

Hi,
I take it your tank is 55 gallons as in your sig.

You have a good filter Fluvul 404. I have the one under it in my 30 gallon. I use it as a over kill because of the fish I keep in it. They all come from faster moving water.


You should be alright with stocking. But you have a large amount of Corys. But their should not be a problem. Just keep up the water changes. And make show are have plenty of varieties of food for all your bottom dwellers.

mac

[artemisblossom]

Yeah it is the one in my sig. but the population has changed a little bit as you can see

[mac]

Yeah it is the one in my sig. but the population has changed a little bit as you can see


Yes I did notice the different fish in your tank. But I don't see any large problems with getting 4-5 Loaches. But the Snow Ball Pleco will grow up to 12 inches. I would personally place him in a larger tank. Then get some more Gold Gouramis.

Hope this helps.

mac

[artemisblossom]

the snowball I have is not supposed to grow over 4" here is the link I read about it
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+837+1032&pcatid=1032

[Jacko]

As for the whole group thing, I agree with both Smaug and Mac in a way, yes fishkeepers tend to keep their fish in less than ideal conditions than what those would find in the wild. Yes it is an excepted practice, 6 neon tetras is considered the minimum but what I think Mac is getting at is that we should do our best to provide the fish with the best accomodations to their natural habitats as we can provide. ArtemisBloom has space for more than 2 loaches and since they are a schooling fish he should try and get more to accomodate their need, so 4 loaches is better than 2.

Think more inbetween your two numbers, snowball pleco/hypancistrus inspector can get 7 inches, 4" is it's maximum shipping size, you won't get one over that size but the one that gets 12" is Baryancistrus sp. (LDA33).

[smaug]

Why not. It is a relevant discussion on proper fish keeping practices.



Yes you are very correct here. But it is hard to keep every fish we want o in the right environment. That is why we should be careful what we buy, and that they are have very similar water parameters. Like Congo Tetras,and Munubs. Two totally different types of fish. Two totally different types of water conditions. And these from general fish keeping knowledge, that these two species should never be kept together at all. It is the same with Discus and The Boti Loach Species. One they all have pretty much the same water parameters. But different feeding needs. Also their is another problems to make discus at home they like sluggish moving ponds rivers and swamps. While Loaches like fast moving water, and high oxygen content. The oxygen content is the same with pretty much all fish. So their is another problem. Incompatible fish in incompatible environments. Now yes Dwarf Loaches and Golden Zebra Loaches would be perfect candidates for living with Discus, that would be true. And their would not be to much of a problem.




Obviously you don't understand. Right because they live in 10,000+ schools
of fish. That way they have safety in numbers.

What you are saying is because they live in so large schools, why not do as I say keep them in large schools. Well yes go a head. If I was aloud a 1000 gallon tank I would keep them in ever so large groups but I cant. So we have to come back down to earth and talk about a 20 gallon tank. Now the minimum amount of fish like most people say is 6 for Neon Tetras. And you know the reason. Safety security, the ability for the fish to interact with each-other and so on. If you have less fish in the tank say only 2, you will find, and ever-one who has kept Nones will have to agree that they are not as active very shy and don't really come out of hiding. So that is great. Two timid fish kept in a tank large enough to have 6+ Neon Tetras.

It is the same thing with the Loaches. Yoyo Loaches are a hyper active fish if kept right. And trust me, I have kept these fish and I do know that they don't mind much to be in a group of two. But when you keep them in a school of 6 or so, they become adventuresome happy active fast moving fish.



Yes and Know. It depend on the fish species.




No it is not a over reaction on my part. It is just common fact, added with my own fish keeping experiences along with a friend of mine who has kept sold and maintained marine fresh water tank for over 70 years. It is no over-reaction. It is just stating the obvious, that fish that are schooling fish should be kept in a school of 6 fish. And not in a group less than 6. That way the fish are able t have a little more interaction together, even if it is not the same as in the wild where it is 100s to 1000s times bigger schools. At least you are giving the fish a chance.

And as for being subjective I should say not. It is far from subjective. Tis is subjective.

Example.
2x Lemon Tetras.
3x Neons.
1x Cory Catfish.
1x Up-Side Down Catfish.

For a 20 gallon tank.

Now you will say that is stupid subjective and not right. Well if you take what you are saying to the extreme then you would get this. And that is then subjective.




Very true. And very correct. But again it all depends on the animal critter and creature in question.

mac
Thats alot of words mac.It doesn't change the facts that loaches,yoyos included are quite happy and active even if they are kept in a small number.I know they can because I am doing it.Mine are very active very inquisitive very healthy fish.We shall have to agree to disagree.

[mac]

Thats alot of words mac.It doesn't change the facts that loaches,yoyos included are quite happy and active even if they are kept in a small number.I know they can because I am doing it.Mine are very active very inquisitive very healthy fish.We shall have to agree to disagree.

Yes that is a lot of words. And their is much more that can be added. But it will be obviously wasting my time. Yes we will have to agree to disagree.

But if you add more Yoyos to your group you will defiantly find them more active.

Plus the word active can be seen differently with every person. To me active is hyper active, like Loaches should be in their proper environment. Not just moving around the tank at a certain pace, looking around for food, and getting inquisitive.

And I understand what you mean by just keeping your fish the way they are. I did that for a short time with 1 Kulie Loach. And it was reasonably active. The when I bought 6 more it became hyper active. ??


mac

[tort518]

Are there any loaches (hopefully smaller) than clown loaches that will help rid the tank of a snail infestation?


My personal favorites for keeping a balance of snails is the Sithimunki Loach, also called the dwarf chain loach. They're a little more expensive than some other types, but they have several advantages.

They max out at maybe 2 to 2 and a half inches at most. They're great in schools of 6 or better and I found from my personal experience that they can also encourage other schoolers to feel more playful.

My Oto's will occasionally school with and play with these loaches.

From a sad side and a bad point, I have learned that I'm a little bit lazy when it comes to proper upkeep for them. As has been said you definitely want to do plenty of regular water changes (I slack off sometimes here and it has cost me a couple of my loaches). Always try to keep your water quality the best it can be for all fish, especially loaches.

I have a good colony of the small pond snails and the burrowing MTS snails as a food source for the loaches in addition to the bloodworms, brine shrimp, and other foods they get.

They seem to prefer the easier to get to pond snails over the MTS, probably because they aren't normally under the substrate and because it appears they're easier to pull out of their shells. I frequently find small areas wth a dozen or more empty snail shells in almost a pile, and am alsways pulling empty shells off the filter intake.

Once I get my 75 gallon I will be moving a bunch of fish to it which will help the water quality in the 30 by reducing the bio load and then I'll increase the school of loaches by another 4 to make them a happier bunch.

Good luch with whatever type of loach you choose.

Jim

[mac]

Hi artemisblossom,
Dwarf Loaches would be great fish to keep. And you could keep more in your tank, than Yoyo Loaches.

mac

[Wild Turkey]

Hi artemisblossom,
Dwarf Loaches would be great fish to keep. And you could keep more in your tank, than Yoyo Loaches.

mac

They are endangered and protected by the Thai government now, and were once thought to be extinct (in the wild). Since they cannot be caught in the wild, generally a difficult fish to procure. I have been looking for them for a while as they look awesome in big schools; but they do require more company than most loaches as well so dont buy 2 or 3 if u find them because ur afraid u wont find more...thats a reason not to buy them. From what ive heard u want 10+ optimally, but 6 is O.K.

If anyone knows where to buy these post it! Ive heard rumors about some popping up on aquabid from time to time but im not sure how long ago, and it may just be hear/say.

I'll do some research and get the details on the laws affecting them and post it on a new thread where ppl can post a location to buy if they find it, or the laws prohibiting doing it, if so.

Whoa rambling. Doh

[Jacko]

Thinking about it, you can also get a single horsefaced loach. They do great against snails, my dwarf species is extremely effective at it but can't eat too many. A normal one would get about 8 inches and provided you give him and would be perfect, without the company of his own kind being that they are a fairly solitary fish.

[mac]

They are endangered and protected by the Thai government now, and were once thought to be extinct (in the wild). Since they cannot be caught in the wild, generally a difficult fish to procure. I have been looking for them for a while as they look awesome in big schools.

They are quite easy to find in the small LFS, that accept home breeders in New Zealand. They are actually very common here.

Are they easy to breed? I am planing to breed them at some point. Because I am going to get rid of my Golden Zebra Loaches, and get 8-12 Dwarf Loaches for my 50 gallon tank.

mac

[Wild Turkey]

They are quite easy to find in the small LFS, that accept home breeders in New Zealand. They are actually very common here.

Are they easy to breed? I am planing to breed them at some point. Because I am going to get rid of my Golden Zebra Loaches, and get 8-12 Dwarf Loaches for my 50 gallon tank.

mac

Ah lucky lucky. I have a feeling im going to put a ton of energy into this just to find out its prohibited here. Otherwise im sure i would find them all over aquabid as they are quite a site.

As for the breeding, its apparently somewhat of a conspiracy. The few commericial breeders that are allowed to breed this fish do it massively with some technique that uses hormones. I havent heard many encouraging stories about breeding them at home, but you never know.

[mac]

Ah lucky lucky. I have a feeling im going to put a ton of energy into this just to find out its prohibited here. Otherwise im sure i would find them all over aquabid as they are quite a site.

Yes we are kinda lucky in New Zealand.


As for the breeding, its apparently somewhat of a conspiracy. The few commericial breeders that are allowed to breed this fish do it massively with some technique that uses hormones. I havent heard many encouraging stories about breeding them at home, but you never know.

I don' know how they breed them. But I do know one shop which dose sell home bread ones, and home bread what ever. As long as the fish are healthy and he knows your tanks are clear from disease and the sme with the adults. But I did'nt know that they weren't allowed to be bread.

mac

[Wild Turkey]

But I did'nt know that they weren't allowed to be bread.
mac

I think theyre only referring to commercial breeding, with it being seldom allowed, and using hormones. I cant imagine how you could enforce this on any level lower than that anyway...I mean if you take the best care of ur fish u can...they breed. Lol

[mac]

Hi,
Yes you are right. It is hard to stop fish from breeding if they are kept in the right environments. Well I will still give it a try.

mac

[Wild Turkey]

Hi,
Yes you are right. It is hard to stop fish from breeding if they are kept in the right environments. Well I will still give it a try.

mac

Cant wait to see some pics! :) And if it turns out to be okay i may buy some fry who knows

[Jacko]

I'd bet with Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki it's most likely just like nearly any other loach when it comes to breeding them in the home aquaria. One of those "hey, why are there 8 of them now? I only bought 5..." type things, most documented loach breeding isn't on purpose.

[mac]

I'd bet with Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki it's most likely just like nearly any other loach when it comes to breeding them in the home aquaria. One of those "hey, why are there 8 of them now? I only bought 5..." type things, most documented loach breeding isn't on purpose.

Hi AlexW,
Yes you are quite right. But I will still try and breed them properly and not by accident.

mac

[2xtheman]

I find a thick slice of brocolli stem put in the tank will attract the snails. You put it in at night, and in the morning take it out with the snails attached. A couple pieces and you could remove 30-50 in a small amount of time!