So why is everyone against the chemical fix?

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I'm just so sick of algae in my tanks. I know when ever someone has a problem everyone suggests to figure out what's causing the algae as a cure and not to use the chemicals fixes.

Is that because the chemicals are that bad or just because they'd rather see the source of the problem get fixed?

I've basically given up on fish tanks do to algae and trying to stop it and i'm thinking it's probably better off to see if the chemicals work instead of shutting everything down.

Since i've gotten rid of the CO2 and shut the intense lighting off it's gotten a little better. But then other problems arise with the lack of some of that stuff.

Do any of the chemical fixes actually work?

We use chemicals to fix diseases and fungus in our tanks, along with fertilizers for plants, chlorine stuff....

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

The chemical fixes only "fix" the symptoms, they don't solve the true underlying problem. If you solve the underlying problem, the algae does away on it's own. The key is to accurately diagnose the real problem. Algae is not a problem in and of it self, it is merely a symptom.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

But wouldn't fixing the symptoms be much better then living with it? or fighting forever to get rid of it?

Wouldn't plants without algae on them grow better? so wouldn't fixing it first help as well with that?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Yes and no. Chemical fixes tend to kill off the algae fast. Having that much dead and decaying algae in your tank is not a good thing. Why keep buying expensive chemicals when you can solve the problem and remove the need for them. Think if it this way, if you have a cold, you can take a medication for the headache, something for the congestion, and something for the coughing. However, the only thing that is going to get rid of that cold is allowing your immune system to do it's job, and to do that it needs the reinforcement of Vitamin C and plenty of rest. You can keep taking the meds to keep the symptoms at bay, but without the proper rest, you are not fighting the real problem. Do you want a permanent fix or a temporary one?

[Gayle]

Right. The way I see it is that yes the chemicals may kill the algae you have now, but without finding and fixing the real problem, it will just continue to grow back.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I think the problem i'm getting at is that finding and fixing the algae isn't working and hasn't even hinted at working....

It's just hard to tell if a change is working as i have so many different kinds of algae that you might not notice a difference. Some suggest more, others less of lighting, nutrients, CO2... so there isn't one definitive way to cure it.


So it's down to give up or try a chemical fix.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Well, I can tell you this, increased CO2 is definitely going to help you out and an improved method of injecting it into your tank will go along way towards helping that.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

lol i had more then 2 bubbles per second, tried many different in line diffusers and even got the $130 ADA diffuser and NOTHING

it's like i was wasting my time with CO2 as my shrimp tank with nothing but a little under 2wpg was growing the same plants at 2-3 times the rate with no algae

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Well, the one inline reactor you showed us was not going to work. You're running an FX5 which is a high flow filter, and as a result you needed a longer reaction chamber, not a wider one. The longer the reaction chamber, the better the diffusion you will get. I had 6-8 bubbles per second on my 125 and I got 100% absorption of the CO2 and no algae problems to speak of.

The one thing you haven't mentioned is your water change routine. How much and how often?

[Fishguy2727]

I prefer natural fixes whenever possible. Many times it means adding a cool new fish that I get to enjoy and will do work for me.

In the case of greenwater though I have used AlgaeFix. I think it is not safe for shrimp or something, but it is safe for plants and fish and the other options of dealing with greenwater are a little extreme.

In many cases the chemicals don't work anyways, or work for today but in a week the algae comes back since the problem was not fixed, just the symptom of algae.

[cichlidfever]

Algae, as pesky as it is, removes harmful nutrients from the water. If you kill the algae, without eliminating the source, you are re-introducing those nutrients into the water without decreasing the original supply. I don't know if an excess of nutrients is causing your bloom, but it's an example of how chemicals do not solve the problem, and may even lead to others.

[kaybee]

It also depends on the type of 'chemicals' used.

I'm not for using chemicals which outwardly kill the algae, such as some type of algae-cide, but something which removes the substances which sustain algae (such as phosphate removing media, etc) are a much better choice (capable of starving out the algae overtime, effectively tackling the cause rather than the symptom).

[Gemini]

I'm sorry your having so many problems Punisher and are getting disheartened. I don't know what to say to help but I hope it gets better. Don't give up!! :11:

[Alfcea]

Hello Punisher,

I agree with you. In many cases, an algae infestation happen even if the water quality is good. Cases like BBA, or diatoms for example fall in this category. Particularly with BBA and other types of hair algae, I am very much for the treatment with chemicals. In these cases, the algae is not a "symptom" of anything wrong. The tank was just unlucky enough to get the spores from somewhere, and, it being a healthy tank, just allowed it to spread around at will...

All the previous posters have made very good comments. In particular, kaybee made an excellent point trying to differentiate between chemicals that remove "algae food" from algaecides, but in some cases, the use of these later ones should not be ruled out right off the bat. I am, once again, thinking of chemicals like H2O2, CO2, glutaraldehyde and others which are not toxic to the fish (at moderate concentrations) but will kill the annoying algae.

I would definitely advise you, though, to be extremely careful when treating cyanobacteria because it is sensitive to antibiotics -it is a bacterium, after all!- but these will also kill the nytrifying bacteria as well...

Or this is what think about it.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

yeah. It just happens that i have BBA in it's many forms and brown diatoms.

the typical green algae on the glass and that's about it right now.

I have the black tuffs of BBA but it also covers my hygrophilla and anubius in black stuff.
Brown diatoms are all over my amazon swords and wood.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Hello Punisher,

I agree with you. In many cases, an algae infestation happen even if the water quality is good. Cases like BBA, or diatoms for example fall in this category. Particularly with BBA and other types of hair algae, I am very much for the treatment with chemicals. In these cases, the algae is not a "symptom" of anything wrong. The tank was just unlucky enough to get the spores from somewhere, and, it being a healthy tank, just allowed it to spread around at will...
Both of these have underlying problems, to say they don't is just not accurate. Something is feeding the BBA, if nothing is feeding it then it won't grow, same with Diatoms. Yes, BBA can be hard to get rid of and sometimes it takes drastic action, but it can be starved without using algae-cides. Diatoms, same thing, they are caused by excess silicates in the tank or excess nutrients, either way, they are a symptom.

PV, you can use the algae-cides if you like but the problem will just keep coming back.

[nwnittany]

Punisher,

I'll go against the crowd a bit on this one. Before I do, I should point out that I'm a beginner (just a year under my belt). And, I respect the opinions of those who've already posted - they know a lot more about this than I do. And, obviously, it would be optimal to treat the root cause.

But, having experienced algae, I know how frustrating it is. And, if you're about to tear down the tank, hell, why not give something like algae-fix a try ? Maybe it will buy you some time to try to sort out what the root cause is and then you can ween the tank off of it. At the end of the day, if it helps you keep your tank up and your fish alive and happy, maybe it isn't so bad after all.

jmho....

[gm72]

Using a chemical indeed fixes the overt signs/symptoms of the problem but the problem remains. You'll be forever using chemicals because the problem won't just go away on it's own.

Analogy: You have to forever take allergy medicine without first determining what is causing your allergy. Just doesn't make sense.

[Fishguy2727]

But if you use chemicals and they kill the algae completely, it won't return until it is re-introduced. I know this has happened to me with greenwater algae and a few other types. If all things are well (nitrate and phosphate are at acceptable concentrations, there is no excessive light, etc.) then there really is not a major problem to be fixed. If there is one of these problems, then yes, fix the problem.

[gm72]

But if you use chemicals and they kill the algae completely, it won't return until it is re-introduced. I know this has happened to me with greenwater algae and a few other types. If all things are well (nitrate and phosphate are at acceptable concentrations, there is no excessive light, etc.) then there really is not a major problem to be fixed. If there is one of these problems, then yes, fix the problem.

Agreed, well said. It has been my experience though that, more often than not, there is indeed an underlying problem and the chemical fix doesn't necessarily do the trick.

[Algenco]

You will havea very difficult time finding the proper balance of light and nutrients due to the shape of your tank. if I remember correctly it is a 110 high, and about 40+" deep

[PUNISHER VETTE]

You will havea very difficult time finding the proper balance of light and nutrients due to the shape of your tank. if I remember correctly it is a 110 high, and about 40+" deep


Yeah. 30in deep. same size as a 90gal just taller.

I haven't done a water change in a week and today all the algae i noticed was brown diatoms. seems like the BBA on my hygrophilla isn't doing much. There are still tuffs of BBA on the wood but i'm pretty sure no matter what i do i'll persist.

I have a feeling I'm close to a ballance by just letting the tank go natural. Add only a few nutrients every so often. no CO2, and the lighting of 260w of CF