Oh NO!! My $60 fish!!!! :(

[Glasstapper]

Poor Sal. Have you EVER seen anything like this? It's look the eye is about to pop out of the socket!

The only thing different than before was I raised the temperature from 79 to 84 (gradually) yesterday because I saw a few fish (including Sal) rub against some decorations. I was going to treat for ich today, but I came home to this!

I took the picture in a hurry, but you can see how huge the eye is and it's turned all red. The "iris" of the eye is horizontal slanted. Like a cat's, but horizontal.

I think I'm going to cry. Is it the temperature? I've immediately lowered the heater. What do you think?

[Glasstapper]

a quick test of my water parameters shows 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates (all normal) but for some reason, my pH has jumped to 7.6! It's normally 7.2. How did that happen?

I'm totally freaking out here. I can see tissue poking out from behind the eye. Just give it to me straight....am I going to lose my fish?

[Glasstapper]

ok, after a quick read up on pop eye, I believe (in fact, I'd almost bet on it) that the salvini was chasing Sal and Sal injured his eye. I've read that in most cases, the eye can heal on it's own, but could possibly lose vision in the eye or worst case actually lose the eye. It seems that it's mostly not fatal and can live a normal life with one eye.

I certainly hope this is the case.

[Lady Hobbs]

Pop eye is often caused from infection, as well. This is bad news. He could lose that eye if it gets too bad. Maybe for the price you paid for him, you should take him back?

[Drumachine09]

Pop eye is often caused from infection, as well. This is bad news. He could lose that eye if it gets too bad. Maybe for the price you paid for him, you should take him back?

Yea, i would try to take him back.

[Glasstapper]

I'm afraid to try to catch him. What if he bumps into something again and his eye falls out?

[Drumachine09]

His eye is connected by the optical nerve. Thechances of it falling out are slim to non. Try to catch him very gently. I found an easy way to catch fish easily. Drop some food pellets by the very front of the aquarium. put the net about 2 inches behind him VERY SLOWLY while he is eating. Then give the glass a gentle tap and he will swim right into the net.

[Lady Hobbs]

That injury is very bad. Often fish will go after the eyes of another. I had an angelfish years ago that had his eyes taken by another fish. It's hard to know if this is what happened here or if it got something poked in it or is an infection. You could treat it with Metafix for a while but why start pouring meds into this fish you just got? I'm sorry this has happened.

[jeffs99dime]

sorry to hear about him glasstapper!

[Glasstapper]

I'm almost positive my salvini helped to cause this. When I first put the JD in, he swam around and acted like king of the tank. The salvini then proceeded to totally dominate the JD and since then, the JD has been hiding and running from the salvini and sometimes even running from the barbs. He's become incredibly skittish and wouldn't even come out to eat. I had to drop food especially near him (on the other side of the tank away from everyone) just for him to eat. also, his eye was fine yesterday. An infection would have been gradual, right? I was hoping the JD would stand up for himself and hold his own, but it's not looking that way.

My fish store closes in half an hour and it's on the other side of town. I'll have to wait until tomorrow afternoon to take him back. What really bites is that there is no guarantee on fish (no money back) and the owner did warn me about the salvini's aggression. He may cut me a deal, though, if I try another cichlid.

Maybe I just have a salvini that won't tolerate other cichlids. And here I was worried a convict or jack dempsey would be too aggressive for the salvini. Pfffft!


oh and you should see how my salvini has brightened all of his colors and increased his activity. He's like a whole different fish!

[Abbeys_Mom]

Hope you are able to take him back, or he gets better :)

[Glasstapper]

I'm going to take him back tomorrow. Too bad that's a big bite in my wallet, though. I should have known better than to drop that much money on a fish I had no experience with and put it with a notoriously mean fish.

I definitely learned my lesson here: Don't dive into the deep end of the pool when you only know how to doggy paddle. You'll struggle and learn the hard way.

[jeffs99dime]

I'm going to take him back tomorrow. Too bad that's a big bite in my wallet, though. I should have known better than to drop that much money on a fish I had no experience with and put it with a notoriously mean fish.

I definitely learned my lesson here: Don't dive into the deep end of the pool when you only know how to doggy paddle. You'll struggle and learn the hard way.

that's very true. sometimes it's the only way though. if it wasn't we'd all be perfect. ya know. good luck with him. hope they take him back for you!

[Glasstapper]

I just called the store, and they said they would take him back, but I wouldn't be able to get a store credit or my money back.

With that said, I'm just going to leave the JD in there and see how he fares. I'm losing money either way, so I may as well. Who knows? He might even pull through. Might.

*sigh*

Thanks for the quick responses, guys. I was freaking out for a minute, but you've helped calm me down. I couldn't ask for better internet friends. :)

[Drumachine09]

Good luck poor Sal!

[Glasstapper]

maybe Sal said to Jack "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" and it really pissed him off. The more I read about salvinis, the more I'm realizing that he just may not allow any tankmates. I'm hearing some horror stories.

Check this out:
http://forums.waterwolves.com/index.php?showtopic=87596&mode=linear

Looks like I've got myself a tank terror!

[Drumachine09]

Maybe you could give Jack a make over. Then he could be beautiful too!:ezpi_wink1:

[KneeKickLou]

Really sorry to hear about your fish. I was thinking maybe the best thing might be to get Sal his own tank or get a divider until he heals up a little and give him a break from Jack. Maybe after he gets fixed up he might gain some of his confidence back. Just my 2 cents. Hope he pulls through for ya. And what a bummer about the LSF, didnt you say they owner recommened the fish too you, I mean he knows what you had he should be willing to take it back if he was wrong and at least give you store credit thats just not right IMO.

[TehTANK]

I agree about the fish store. I would be going to another fish store if they don't guarentee their fish and wont even take back fish you purchased from them. I have a LFS that will take fish at anytime. They always give store credit and if you bought it there and your water quality is good and return a fish they give you full credit. I mean they are great to have around. I would suggest a new fish store.

Sorry to hear about your fish and I hope he pulls through. Keep us posted!

[jeffs99dime]

maybe Sal said to Jack "Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" and it really pissed him off. The more I read about salvinis, the more I'm realizing that he just may not allow any tankmates. I'm hearing some horror stories.

Check this out:
http://forums.waterwolves.com/index.php?showtopic=87596&mode=linear

Looks like I've got myself a tank terror!

or maybe sal said to jack: "don't hater the player, hate the game!" and maybe jack didn't like his comment too much.

[Glasstapper]

well, I couldn't find Sal this morning. I moved around the decorations and plants and nothing. He was behaving normally last night and even ate a little. It was obvious he couldn't see out of his eye, but otherwise he was the same as always. Can a fish really disappear? Certainly I would find SOMETHING. I don't think Jack ate him. Jack is about 4 inches and Sal was about 2 1/2 inches long.

*perplexed*



about the fish store, it was the only one I could find where their tanks actually looked healthy. I never find a dead fish in the tanks and there are always marking the tanks that are on meds or "new shipment quarantine". I'd rather that than to take home a fish from petsmart that is on it's deathbed. Perhaps I'll continue searching for some more small fish stores

[Severus]

That is weird that you cant find him.... Maybe he jumped out? Hopefully you wont find pieces of him later on...

I hope he is ok and his eye gets straightened out. Good luck with everything!

[AquaQueen]

As for fish vanishing from your tank I have had 3 pelco's just vanish no sign of them ever one was a good size too... never found out what happened to this day. So it is possible.

[Glasstapper]

That is weird that you cant find him.... Maybe he jumped out? Hopefully you wont find pieces of him later on...

I hope he is ok and his eye gets straightened out. Good luck with everything!

I had the lid on last night, so I don't think he could have escaped. I'll check the floor anyway, though. And I would much rather find pieces of him than not finding him at all. At least I would know what really happened, you know?

I even had a dream about him last night. I dreamed that I was peering into the tank to look for him and I when I found him, he had grown a little bigger, and his eye was all better. :)

[Abbeys_Mom]

I hope you find him. Strange for a fish to disappear. It one thing for me to not be able to find a kuhli in a 10g, but to not find a 2 1/2 inch fish?

[Lady Hobbs]

Another one that dreams about her fish!! I do too! And it's always something bad like I have 3000 in one tank and can't find a place to put them.

[AquaQueen]

lol hobbs, do you wake up in a panic afterwards then realize it was all a dream??...lol

[Glasstapper]

Another one that dreams about her fish!! I do too! And it's always something bad like I have 3000 in one tank and can't find a place to put them.

I had a dream once when I first got my tank that when I went to feed my fish, some snake thing would come out of the plants and gobble all of the food before my fish could get any. I was so mad at the snake, but I was afraid of him and didn't want to try to catch him. I dreamed that I would keep putting more and more food in there hoping for my little fish to at least get a bite or two, but the snake kept stealing it and getting bigger and bigger.

Kind of a nightmare, and I was very glad to wake up!
(I would never own an eel because they look too much like snakes)

[Fishguy2727]

When I was researching the electric blues I found they are not as aggressive as the normals at all and should not be in with aggressive fish. The other issue here is size. The bigger and more aggressive fish was in his own territory, and the new smaller and less aggressive guy has no real chance.

Popeye is not in and of itself a disease, it is actually a symptom of a number of diseases. It can be parasitic, fungal, or bacterial. It is the same as dropsy in that the actual disease prevents fluids from being removed from the tissue or cavity and with the water continuously coming in (due to freshwater's osmotic pressure compared to the osmotic pressure of the tissue) the tissue or cavity will swell up. One thing that can contribute to or cause popeye is water quality. What filtration do you have? What water change schedule?

[pumkin54]

I too have had dreams about my fish, where I'm a bad mom and keep forgetting to feed them. I can see them looking for food and starving and my real self is yelling at my dream self, 'Omg, pay attention!' Then one day I suddenly remember them and run to look and they're all dead.

I also had a fish disappear from my 10g tank once. I had an algae eater (http://tropicalfishgallery.com/species-gallery/cyprinid/aymonieri.html) as a kid. He started out as a cute little 1 inch baby thing. I loved to watch him suck on the glass. I had him for about 5 years. Eventually all the other fish in the tank died off and he was the only one left. He kept getting bigger and bigger till he was about 6 inches long. He'd hide in this little cave of rocks I made for him and only come out at night. I was kinda creeped out by him, this big lurking night creature. One day, I looked, and the little cave was empty. No big scary fish anywhere, not even on the floor. So creepy. I was scared to put on my house slippers cuz I started imagining I'd find him in there.

Anyway, sorry to divert from the main topic. I hope you find your fish and that everything ends well.

[Glasstapper]

When I was researching the electric blues I found they are not as aggressive as the normals at all and should not be in with aggressive fish. The other issue here is size. The bigger and more aggressive fish was in his own territory, and the new smaller and less aggressive guy has no real chance.

Popeye is not in and of itself a disease, it is actually a symptom of a number of diseases. It can be parasitic, fungal, or bacterial. It is the same as dropsy in that the actual disease prevents fluids from being removed from the tissue or cavity and with the water continuously coming in (due to freshwater's osmotic pressure compared to the osmotic pressure of the tissue) the tissue or cavity will swell up. One thing that can contribute to or cause popeye is water quality. What filtration do you have? What water change schedule?

Well, I admit I do need another filter (that addition is coming soon). Currently I only have a whisper 60, but I am siphoning the gravel with twice weekly water changes totalling to 60% changed out a week (30% each time). And I make sure to get the gravel UNDER the decorations as well. I'm hoping this will be fine until I get my second filter (which will be another whisper 60), and I will continue my 60% a week water changes.


In other news today.... Sal's ALIVE!!!! :) I just got home and the little guy was swimming around. Bless his little heart, he even went right in front of the salvini and grapped him some food. His eye still looks the same, but it's definitely not any worse, and it doesn't seem to bother him any. He obviously can't see out of it, but it's like he doesn't care much about that.


***oh, and I will keep a close eye on those two. It looks like the salvini just chases him, but I haven't seen any nipped fins or body injuries (other than that eye, of course), but no bite marks or missing scales. I also read up all day on the EBJD's (not much work today) and it also seems that they have a high mortality rate due to weak immune systems. I'll give him a chance. He's obviously excellent at hiding, so if he can live to be just a few inches longer, I'll see if I can't find him a suitable home. Possibly, he may even get his own tank. I just found out I had an additional $400 in my account that I had "hidden" from myself. Yay!!!

[Drumachine09]

Well at least Sal is alive!

[Glasstapper]

yes, and he will have the entire tank all to himself. I'm going to go get a 30 gallon tank this weekend and start cycling it for Jack the salvini (fishless cycle, of course). I would put Sal in it, but he's more delicate and may fare better in a more mature tank with some tiger barb dithers and, eventually, a much more calm and smaller cichlid tankmate.

Oh, this weekend will be fun.

[Drumachine09]

Look on the bright side, at least you wont be bored!

[Abbeys_Mom]

Glad to hear he's alive.

I always dream that my fish start swimming out of the tank and float around the room. I run around wildly trying to net them, but it's like catching butterflies. I have had the same dream since I was 9 or so. Really weird.

[Drumachine09]

Anyone ever have the same dream, like 5 or 6 nights in a row, but it ends differently? I do atleast once a month. They are very amusing. One time i was chased down a mountain by a mountain goat, made out of mountain dew cans, untill i drank him all.

[Fishguy2727]

Drugs are bad.

What size tank is it again? Try adding more hides, especially ones that only the EBJD can fit in. I am a huge fan of PVC pipes, cheap, very effective, and they love them. They get algae in no time so it doesn't look that bad.

[Glasstapper]

well, I did have one small cave just for him, but the salvini squeezes his butt in there and starts moving the gravel outside to make himself some more room. I'll build another cave just for him near his favorite spot so he'll have his own "safehouse" for the time being (a PVC pipe sounds perfect) The EBJD likes to stay hidden in the bunches of plants for now. Hell, sometimes I can't even find him he's hiding so well. I have tons of plants all along the back of the tank (tall and medium) and big bunches of amazon swords and other tall plants on either side of the tank. all plastic and silk.

I will be getting another tank this weekend to separate the two because it seems Sal is not aggressive enough for a life with a salvini. I'm still slightly undecided on which one I should remove from the main tank into the solitary tank. Hopefully my fishless cycle on the new tank will be a speedy one.

[pumkin54]

Glad to hear you found your fish! I hope his eye gets better and he turns out alright. Are you gonna add other fish to the new 30g too?

[Fishguy2727]

If you get a Whisper 60 for the new tank you could just remove the Bio-Bags out of the 45, then instead of getting rid of the water from a water change on the 45, use it to fill the 30. That way the tank will be almost instantly cycled. I would move the EBJD to the smaller tank. He is smaller and will probably do better than the salvini by himself (or with a couple small maintenance fish). It also means smaller doses (less money) for meds.

[Lady Hobbs]

Glad you found your fish and will be getting another tank for him. This fish of yours is getting to your purse strings pretty well. LOL Another tank, new gravel and decorations and now meds? :) I call my Angelfish my Million Dollar Man. Cost me $7.50 for the fish but another $40 in treatments for him to get him well.

There is one med out there I found that treats fungal, bacterial and internal problems called Lifeguard. It's supposed to do it all. Whether it does all it's claimed to do or not I don't know but I used it for my angel.

[Severus]

Glad to hear you found him as well. I think putting the EBJD in the new tank would be the smart thing to do as well. Hopefully your little guy gets through this and you can enjoy your $60 fish!

[Glasstapper]

Well, I do have the extra money, so I don't mind spending it on the little guy. Also, it's a great excuse to get another tank!

I believe I'm going to order some of that Lifeguard stuff and keep it on hand. I spotted Sal this morning, but he was still sleeping. (I wish I could have slept in, too!) I'll keep you guys updated on his health.

[AquaQueen]

I am glad your fish didn't disappear....I think you will be doing the right thing to get him(Jack) a new home..he will live much happier as the king of the tank. I like the LifeGuard Medication it covers everything but internal parasites it works very well at least has for me. I found it in my Dr's Foster and Smith catalog not sure if my LPS carries it but I imagine they would. Good Luck with Jack. I hope he heals up and is back to himself in no time.

[Fishguy2727]

Are you planning on putting anything in the 30 when the EBJD goes in? I would keep it bare bottom, at least while he is recovering.

[Glasstapper]

reptileguy, I bought the 29 gallon today. I was considering leaving it bare bottom, as well, but how will that affect the cycling? Should I install a sponge filter just for that purpose? (on top of the HOB filter with media, of course) And then I can always add the pea pebbles later?

[Fishguy2727]

It won't affect your cycling. Are you going to use the Bio-Bags from the setup tank to kickstart the cycle?

[Glasstapper]

yep. I'm also going to use quite a bit of the gravel from my main tank put in some pantyhose so I can remove it easily later on.

My main priority is just to get a sort of sanitized tank running and ready for Sal. I can do all the "decorating" part later. he'll just be getting a couple of hiding places and a black background for now.

[cocoa_pleco]

fish with popeye are not necessarily doomed. losing one eye isnt painful, and the only drawback is the fish has bad depth perception, limiting eating and agility skills. botheyes limits the fish alot, but isnt deadly. i had a auloncara albino that had popeye, and he started to get better. i couldnt figure out why he got sick, and it was because of septicemia.:4:

[jeffs99dime]

fish with popeye are not necessarily doomed. losing one eye isnt painful, and the only drawback is the fish has bad depth perception, limiting eating and agility skills. botheyes limits the fish alot, but isnt deadly. i had a auloncara albino that had popeye, and he started to get better. i couldnt figure out why he got sick, and it was because of septicemia.:4:

losing one eye ISN'T PAINFUL? lol --sorry, couldn't resist! lol

[Glasstapper]

I thought you guys would want an update on Sal. It's been four days, and he's doing much better, actually. I thought for sure I was going to lose him, but check out the photos. The very first photo was the day I found him with the injury (it's also on the first page of the thread). The second photo is of the same eye today. The third photo is of his good eye for comparison. He's still blind in his eye and sometimes misses the food he's trying to eat, but he does get some food after a few tries. He came out for a little dinner, but once in a while I drop some food near him, and he swims close enough up to my hand to take the food. He won't come right up to my hand, but he comes to check out what the hand has! He's such a little sweetheart. :)

[cocoa_pleco]

actually, losing their eye doesnt often hurt. some cichlids dont have have much pain nerve in their eyes apparently. The liquid that causes the popeye just causes the eye to pop out from pressure.

[Glasstapper]

that's a relief. I would wince everytime I saw him bump his eye on a decoration. I'm glad it didn't hurt him.

[Drumachine09]

Hope it heals:thumb: