high level of Ammonia

[Sin]

Alrighty. . for the past several days my tank has had a high level of ammonia.. the reading was 4ppm...Nitrite levels were oppm and Nitrate levels were 0ppm. . i had done a 30% water change on thursday... ammonia level was still 4ppm i couldnt understand it and it bothered me so i went to the LFS and got ammo lock to relieve the fish from ammonia.....and today i did a 60% water change cleaned out all the gravel and such , did a reading and it still came up ammonia level 4ppm....im sitting there wondering what the heck can be wrong and so i opened the cabinet and was checking the valves for the water pressure on my filter....i turned it off for a few seconds and turned it back on....and i noticed because of the water flow jetting out flake food was released out of the darn plants i have bunched up in the tank....the flake food was causeing the high levels of ammonia and i had not even thought to take plants out and clean them off , usually when i do water changes i didnt take them out and washed them off...sooo i have taken all the plants out the tank for the moment and just now i did a reading , it says ammonia level is 2ppm...i will do a reading tomorrow afternoon and hopefully it will drop back down to 0ppm...maybe this was a novice mistake...but from now on i will clean off the plants throughly everytime i notice ammonia going up along with the water changes because the darn flake food will just sit in the plants and not even know it .. maybe someone can learn from my mistake

[blue fin]

You shouldn't need to clean your plants at all, your fish will generally take care of this.. if your ammonia is high and nitrite and nitrate are zero your tank hasn't cycled... avoid cleaning your gravel until your tank has cycled. What method of testing are you using? test strips or a proper liquid ammonia test? and more importantly, you said you tested at 4ppm and after removing plants it dropped to 2.. was there a water change in there? if not the testing is erratic or just can't be trusted.... poor quality plants can cause problems but the food on the plants is not likely to cause that dramatic of a change unless the whole tank is full of them.

[Sin]

thats pretty weird , the tanks been up and running for several months and i have not had a problem. . .i do not use test strips , but do individual water tests for Nitrite ammonia and nitrate . . the PH went off wack also , it is 6.2 right now ....i will def. check it out tomorrow and run the tests again...and the fish did not eat the food since the flakes were visible after the water flow disturbed them and they were in the water , and had came off the plants

[Sin]

i must say i added a third arrowana into my tank and that might have added on the ammonia also...but i also had gotten another 2217 filter for added filteration beforehand...maybe thats the cause? but the filter should have been able to prevent the ammonia....its been running for a week now

[blue fin]

You also said you changed all the gravel? did you save any of it to get the new gravel started on a cycle before you took it out? It all does sound strange, if your ph is off you should also test the water you are putting into the tank for ph, the plants can have negative effects on the Ph.

[Sin]

the gravel is the same..all i did was clean it out when i did the water change with the sphyon ..i removed all the debries out....i am keeping the fake plants out the tank untill i see whats going on

[blue fin]

Good Idea.. I doubt the filter caused the problem, did you leave the old filter running while the new one is building up it's bacteria? I doubt that one more fish caused the issue.

[kimmers318]

If you removed the old filter and replaced it with new and did not use some of the old filter media you could be experiencing a mini cycle, although that is an awfully high ammonia reading for a mini cycle. Alot of your good bacteria is on decor, in gravel and in your filter media. I am not 100% positive on this, but I believe those "ammolock" products that make the ammonia not harmful to fish does not get rid of the ammonia. It detoxifies it, but it is still there and will frequently show up on your tests. That is one of the reasons a lot of people don't recommend using that method to lower your ammonia levels because since you can't get a true read you don't know what the fish are actually living in.
As for the extra food in your plants.....if you have extra food laying around you are feeding way too much! Many fish will scavenge around all day looking for small morsels to eat and you really shouldn't be finding a bunch of flake food hiding in plant leaves. The fish may not be eating well due to the high ammonia levels. I suggest you don't feed for a few days until you get to the bottom of the problem and get it solved. That will help keep extra food from laying around, and will also keep from adding to the ammonia levels when the food starts to decay.

[Sin]

i didnt mess with the filter at all . .. i checked this Am..ammonia level is still 2ppm...im not feeding any fish untill i see levels drop back down....the dude at the fish store told me to add Cycle along with the ammo lock this way i would be adding benificial bacteria . . all i did before the water change was add the ammo lock....should i add these things again after the water change?

[jeffs99dime]

i would do a larger water change to bring your levels down more.

[Lady Hobbs]

I'm wondering how you cleaned your gravel. If you cleaned it too well or cleaned it in bleach, you have set your cycle back. If you can get some bio-spira for your local fish store, grab some of that to get your cycle re-established and clean nothing else now until you get 0 ammonia and nitrites again.

[Sin]

I'm wondering how you cleaned your gravel. If you cleaned it too well or cleaned it in bleach, you have set your cycle back. If you can get some bio-spira for your local fish store, grab some of that to get your cycle re-established and clean nothing else now until you get 0 ammonia and nitrites again.
Hobbs...i am really worried about doing another water change again for the reason you just stated , it might set the cycle back...and that is not what i want , for the time being i have added some ammo lock for my fishes and raised the Ph up a bit , removed all plants out the tank , i will grab some Biospira tomorrow and then do a 75% water change then add the biospira ..this is the most fusterating part of fish ownership...when something is out of your control and it renders you helpless:confused:

[Sin]

okay...i just had a friend of mine come by and take a look at my tank and i explained to him my problem with the ammonia....and he takes one look at my pacus and says that they are the problem....they are causeing the ammonia since they are known to be dirty fish......they will go to the botom of the tank and eat anything they can find , then spit it right back out....oscars are known to do this as well and some other people told me that they were dirty fish in that respect as well...hence why i didnt get them...now i am having second thoughts about my pacus since they were eating everything my arrowanas were eating , but they are probably making more of a mess....as stated before my arrowans are my main priority and they come first....i was also told not to do drastic water changes as it might be harmfull to the fishes....all i will probably end up doing is get Biospira tomorrow and call my friend to come pick up the pacus , if they are the culprit they will be happy with my friend as he deals with pacus only and this way hopefully i can get things back in order with the water parameters and maintain the fish i have. .. i sure hope i am doing the right thing

[kimmers318]

Glad to see you are getting closer to solving the problem. If the tank itself wasn't overstocked with the pacus, you might want to consider your filtration and maintenance schedule as needing some upgrading. All of your larger fish, and esp. carnivores, will dirty a tank much quicker than large batches of small fish. Increased filtration and water maintenance is a must usually.
As for water changes and not wanting to clean gravel too much.....just syphon water out, don't stick the vac down into the gravel and stir the debris up. If all you are wanting to do is dilute toxins in the water that is fine.
Good luck

[Sin]

kimmer , my 3 pacus have grown considerably , they are looking huge even tho the biggest are about 7 - 8 inches they are fat and healthy ...that means they must be producing alot of waste as well , they are beautiful fish to have and my original plans were to keep them untill i couldnt , but that isnt the case now..they will tear pieces of food apart not like the arowanas who just swallow their foods whole , soo the pacu is a messy eater....im just worried i cleaned the gravel out too well the last time i did the water change and i did add the ammo lock after i did the water change , do you think the benificial bacteria in Biospira will be killed off because of the ammock lock i used? as far as my filteration goes i have two 2217's in the tank....isnt that enough? as far as the water changes i might switch to doing two smaller changes twice a week as apposed to doing a huge change once a week..just for piece of mind so that i dont end up stressing the fish with a huge water change.....the thing is many ways work for many people and you cant say that they are right , at the same time you cant say they are wrong because it produces the right results for them....where does that leave me tho ? lol :confused: yep confused

[Lady Hobbs]

Doing water changes will not harm your biological factor as much as messing with the gravel. The water itself doesn't have much there but the gravel is storing all that bacteria for you. Disturbing that will mess you up good.

I believe between cleaning the gravel as you did and then adding those fish was a set back for you and you will have to watch your ammonia levels again so you won't lose those fish. Let your ammonia levels decide how much your water change should be. Very high would = a large water change and not so high should = less.

If you rinsed your gravel in tap water (chlorinated) then you have just set your cycle back.

Fish tanks are very touchy for about 3-4 months and it doesn't take much to end up with a mini-cycle again.

[Sin]

ohh goodness Hobbs....you are soooo right. ..i just hope i didnt screw the cycle process up with the gravel cleaning. .:confused:

[jeffs99dime]

ohh goodness Hobbs....you are soooo right. ..i just hope i didnt screw the cycle process up with the gravel cleaning. .:confused:

yeah. don't clean the gravel until the cycle is complete. once it is, clean only part of the gravel at a time so you don't disturb all of your nitrifying bacteria.

[Lady Hobbs]

ohh goodness Hobbs....you are soooo right. ..i just hope i didnt screw the cycle process up with the gravel cleaning. .:confused:

Bad, Bad girl!

[Sin]

yeah. don't clean the gravel until the cycle is complete. once it is, clean only part of the gravel at a time so you don't disturb all of your nitrifying bacteria.
jeff..im gonna get the biospira and add it into my tank this AM. . . do you think the ammo lock will disturb the benificial bacteria? and the tanks been cycled already , altho it is still a new tank only several months old

[Sin]

Bad, Bad girl!
HOBBS YOU GO GIRL! :thumb:

[Sin]

just to let all the folks that helped me out on this issue know...i have given the 3 pacus away to a friend and i asked around with other knowledgeable people and they all told me the same thing.....the pacus were causeing the ammonia to spike up like that since they ate EVERYTHING my arowanas ate and i probably was overfeeding as well since i have other fishes in the tank and they ate the flake foods also....i went to fish town this afternoon and brought enough Biospira for my 125 gallon tank....now its just a waiting game to see if it helps with this very important issue ..
the people at fish town told me my 2217's are enough filteration for my tank and when i do a water change just to clean some of the gravel out , the benificial bacteria lives in there and its not a good idea to disturb majority of it. . i will do water checks tomorrow and post the results. . Thanks for all that helped me out. . and especially hobbs :thumb:

[Sin]

water readings still indicate ammonia , but the fish look much better , not looking stressed out at all. . . only problem i had was that i didnt feed my fishes due to the ammonia.....and after the Biospira was added my arrowanas must of felt better and were hungry..... i cant seem to find one of my tinfoil barbs! One of the bigger arrow's must of had a feast :14: they NEVER did that before , but they are predatory fish and hungry ones at that...so it is to be expected....i hope they dont get a taste for it...once i realized one of the tinfolis was missing i had to feed them....two of the arrowanas ate the silversides and the biggest one just looked at them....so she was the one that had the feast....i have added the plants back into the tank for any fish to get cover....and i pray they start growing fast...lol its no biggy tho all my fishes in the tank i had them for months and were healthy and quaranteed

[blue fin]

Great news.. hope the trend continues....

[Sin]

i wonder how long it takes for the ammonia to go away? after the biospira was added? the good folks at fish town told me it doesnt matter if i added ammo lock before it wont mess with the biospira......and the readings still indicate ammonia , but when will it go away??

[blue fin]

That depends on how far your cycle was set back, I would be patient and expect a week or two to see substantial changes, just keep testing and perform water changes as needed to keep your fish healthy.....you've already got a great start and the changes may occur quickly.

[Sin]

blue fin , i sure do hope your right. .hopefully the ammonia goes away in a few days :::Fingers Crossed:::: thanks!!!

[blue fin]

I'll cross mine for you after I shut off the computer... I went through a similar problem cycling my tank...

[Severus]

I had a similar problem myself recently. Hopefully you get back to normal soon

[Sin]

blue fin and 100GW , in my case i have no choice but to feed them , since they will start to let nature take over and start looking at the smaller fishes as food......so am i helping the problem or causeing it? im just gonna make sure the arrows have something in their tummys ...such are the fusterations i tell ya . .GEEZ! this is why i hope things fall back into place SOOON!

[Sin]

just got done talking to my boy ray , and he tells me the fact that i added another 2217 in my tank was the reason the ammonia spiked up since that filter needs time to build up benificial bacteria...also the pacus didnt help much either...but my new filter can also be the cause! he tells me the best bet is if i added a wet and dry , and to never touch that one as the benificial bacteria shouldnt be touched or bothered

[jeffs99dime]

just got done talking to my boy ray , and he tells me the fact that i added another 2217 in my tank was the reason the ammonia spiked up since that filter needs time to build up benificial bacteria...also the pacus didnt help much either...but my new filter can also be the cause! he tells me the best bet is if i added a wet and dry , and to never touch that one as the benificial bacteria shouldnt be touched or bothered

that's not true. adding another filter will most certainly not increase your ammonia levels!