Discus Info

[Demjor19]

I am in the process of selling a few fish and moving a few others around in the hopes of turning one of my 75 gallon tanks into a Discus display tank. This is one fish i have always wanted to keep, but haven't kept yet.

My first question is...can some of you give me a little first hand knowledge and advice on keeping these fish? Secondly...does anyone on here breed them or could you suggest any breeders near me (Kent, OH 44240). I would like to aquire them at a fairly small size and raise them myself.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Lady Hobbs]

http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/

Here's a breeder and retailer near Cincinnati. Don't know how far that is from you. Do any of your LFS carry them?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

There is a Sticky on keeping Discus.

[Fishguy2727]

What questions do you have about their care?

[Demjor19]

LFS's here do carry them, but they are almost always adults.

I suppose i don't really have many questions, but wanted to here peoples personal experience with keeping them. How many adults do you think would do best in a 75?

Thanks for the info thus far!

[Fishguy2727]

I would start with a group of 6-8. This provides great odds for at least one pair forming.

I highly recommend planting the tank. It is natural for them and it will help keep the water quality up.

I also recommend sand. Please see the article in my blog for more information on that.

There is also an article in my blog on stocking aquariums.

Are you planning on any tankmates?

[Demjor19]

I would start with a group of 6-8. This provides great odds for at least one pair forming.

I highly recommend planting the tank. It is natural for them and it will help keep the water quality up.

I also recommend sand. Please see the article in my blog for more information on that.

There is also an article in my blog on stocking aquariums.

Are you planning on any tankmates?

I was planning on keeping my Red and Green Severum with them and my school of 5-6 loaches (this may make breeding difficult). None of the tankmates are aggressive though. I'll be sure to check out your article.

Thanks for your help so far!

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I personally wouldn't keep the Sevrums in there. If this is the first time you've ever kept Discus I'd also recommend keeping them in a bare bottom tank. I notice you keep your Rhom in a bare bottom tank and I suspect it's for the same reason, keeping the water quality higher is much easier with no substrate.

[Demjor19]

I personally wouldn't keep the Sevrums in there. If this is the first time you've ever kept Discus I'd also recommend keeping them in a bare bottom tank. I notice you keep your Rhom in a bare bottom tank and I suspect it's for the same reason, keeping the water quality higher is much easier with no substrate.

Water quality is never an issue in any of my tanks. I only have the Rhom in a bare bottom tank because i can never make up my mind on decor and it's nice to get in and out of that tank fairly quickly while cleaning it. I perform about (2-3) 50% waterchanges on all of my community tanks weekly and (1) 50% waterchange per week on my single specimen tanks. All of my waterchanges include cleaning/vacuuming the substrate.

I also feel that the severums would be fine with the Discus...as far as aggression goes. Like i said...they have never even nipped a fin on another fish. If you guys/gals honestly feel that the Severums are not suitable tankmates for the Discus, then i'll scrap the idea and just get a few more severums.

As always...i do appreciate the input.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

The problem with keeping the Sevrums with the Discus is actually with feeding. Discus are not exactly fast fish and when kept with more active fish the more active fish often outcompete the Discus for food. As for the water quality issue, it's not just a matter of having low NO3 levels in your tank with them, it's a matter of having clean water, no extra food particles or poo floating around.

[Demjor19]

The problem with keeping the Sevrums with the Discus is actually with feeding. Discus are not exactly fast fish and when kept with more active fish the more active fish often outcompete the Discus for food. As for the water quality issue, it's not just a matter of having low NO3 levels in your tank with them, it's a matter of having clean water, no extra food particles or poo floating around.

That's exactly what I was talking about. Appropriate feedings, waterchanges, and adequate filtration take all of these factors out of the equation. As far as feeding goes...once the severums have a few of their large NLS pellets they are very satisfied and will almost always just go about their business, leaving all of the other fish to feed freely.

[Demjor19]

After doing a little more reading, i think i'm going to hold off on the Discus for now. I think i will set up a Discus only tank this spring. That will give me plenty of time to get everything figured out. Thanks to all who helped.

[Lady Hobbs]

Very good idea Demjor. Now ya got your thinkin' cap on.

[Demjor19]

Very good idea Demjor. Now ya got your thinkin' cap on.

Thanks! I almost let my impulsive side get the best of me. That happens to the all of us at times.

[Fishguy2727]

Sand as a substrate is just as easy to clean and much more natural.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Having had sand as a substrate, I personally have to disagree. But, that's just my opinion. Everyone will will have their own on that issue.

[Demjor19]

Having had sand as a substrate, I personally have to disagree. But, that's just my opinion. Everyone will will have their own on that issue.

I agree with you. I had black sand in my Rhom tank and it was a total pain in the butt. It ruined one of my AC 110's and was always getting sucked out during water changes. It looks beautiful, but seems to be higher maintenance than gravel IMO.

[Fishguy2727]

Definitely not higher maintenance than gravel. Different types of sand may be an issue. I only use Estes' Marine Sand. It sinks quickly when disturbed (no issues with filters). It keeps all the debris on top so vacuuming just means holding the vacuum above the debris for a second. I have enough flow in all my tanks so that the debris keeps moving until the filters grab it (literally no vacuuming now). I have had both bare bottom and sand and there is no difference between the two two as far as maintenance goes with the Estes'.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Definitely not higher maintenance than gravel. Different types of sand may be an issue. I only use Estes' Marine Sand. It sinks quickly when disturbed (no issues with filters). It keeps all the debris on top so vacuuming just means holding the vacuum above the debris for a second. I have enough flow in all my tanks so that the debris keeps moving until the filters grab it (literally no vacuuming now). I have had both bare bottom and sand and there is no difference between the two two as far as maintenance goes with the Estes'. Fishguy, can you not leave things alone. We both stated our opinions, and that is what they are, opinions and we are entitled to them just as you are entitled to yours. You've stated yours, we've stated ours and it doesn't need to be debated. Learn to agree to disagree would you!

[Fishguy2727]

I am sharing more information. For example: many people may be happy to know that just because some sands can cuase problems does not mean they all will. This person had issues with filters and cleaning. I explained why in my experience with the sand I happen to use those do not seem like they should be issues. Maybe he just happened to use a sand that does not work well in aquariums. Maybe someone reading this will by happy to see there is more than just 'yes it is fine',and 'no it is not'. There is nothing wrong with more information and more details. In my experience there is no issue with keeping a tank with sand clean. So yes, when someone says you should have bare bottom to keep it cleaner and that goes against every single case I have ever seen with the sand I use, I will bring it up and explain it. It does not mean I want to argue. It does not mean I want to prove anyone wrong. It does not mean that I have to always be right. It means that there is more information available for anyone making this decision besides 'yes it is fine' and 'no it is not'. As a forum, together we are here to share all relevant information to allow people to make the most well-informed decisions about their tanks. Basic, unsupported, and unexpanded exclamations do not help anyone.

[William]

Let's not allow this to get any further or turn into a fight. Whether gravel or sand is to be preferred is simply a question of opinion and which one a person think require more maintenance say more about the aquarist and his conditions than about any type of perceived truth on the matter

Personally I think sand is actually easier to maintain than gravel but that is just my opinion and it might be because I don't care if I remove a little sand each time I clean and have to new sand once in a while. But that say more about my conditions where a little sand in the waste water isn't a problem, if for example you have to take care not to clog the drain in an house were the drain easily gets clogged that might be a large problem that makes gravel much easier to keep. That is just one example of a factor that can affect which one perceives as associated with more work- There are many more. In other words: There is no truth and everyone is entitled to their opinion, their preference.

[gm72]

There was nothing wrong with the response by Fishguy specific to the use of sand. He is elaborating on what he believes to be an easy-to-clean substrate. There was nothing inflammatory or controversial in his response. Very good information from his personal experience.

Myself I have both gravel and sand tanks. I find both easy to work with and really don't have much of a preference.

[Demjor19]

I wasnt offended by anybody's post on this thread. Maybe the two of us just used the wrong sand (i forget what brand it was, but it was bought at a fish store)? Maybe i'll try the Estes sand in my Rhom's tank next time i decide to re-aquascape it.

[Fishguy2727]

That is exactly why I mentioined the exact type of sand I use. Everyone likes to save money and many buy sands not made for aquarium use and then many of those people have problems of various types. I use the one I use exclusively, and for a reason. I have never had any of the issues so many cite as reasons for not using sand and I try and clarify things up to show why some had and why I haven't. This way others reading can see it is not just sand in general, and those posting may get an idea of why they had issues.

[Red]

I use the Estes in all my 10 gal tank and smaller which is 5 tanks and its great! Its pretty cheap too and a lot of times its buy one get one free. I find eco complete a pain in the but to clean buts thats just me :)

[Fishguy2727]

That's what I have heard almost across the board when I have asked. This is why I have not used it. I was looking into some of the sands made for planted tanks for one we are doing at my work, but it seems they are just so messy, so I will be sticking with the Estes'.

[Demjor19]

The sand i was using was made for the home aquaria, but it must have been too light. Everytime the fish would swim you could hear the sand grinding in the filter motor. Like i said...i'll give the Estes a whirl and see what gives. I think the Rhom would look pretty nice on white sand. I'll get some pics up when i do it.

[Fishguy2727]

I have watched mine with it, it was a huge concern at first. Fast swimmers will stir it up for a second, but it very quickly settles down. Other fish that like to sift through like cichlids and goldfish will grab some in their mouth and swim around with and discharge it out of their gills. Even in these cases it sinks very quickly. I keep all my intakes in the upper half of the tank, not down low. This is just extra back up. The only issues I could imagine are really big fish that swim and take off quickly (like a big 18" catfish at feeding time). They may kick up too much. The other would be something like a cichlid that has decided it is fun to spit sand into the intakes, which I have heard of once or twice. But overall it should not be an issue.

I am surprised so many have issues with keeping it clean. Since I switched all my tanks to sand there is literally no vacuuming to be done. The sand keeps debris on top and the flow keeps debris moving until the filters grab it. My Python has a net rubberbanded to the end (to prevent fish from being sucked up while I am not watching) and I never have to take it off to vacuum. The only exception may be small amounts of debris collecting around decor that slows flow. So around rocks, plants, and wood there may be a little debris buildup. For any debris that does collect all you have to do is hold the Python above it and the debris will lift up. I think this is much eaiser than vacuuming an entire gravel bed every week to keep the tank clean.

It may be annoying at first to get it to settle, which is why they suggest pre-soaking the sand (no cleaning required at all). After that it is so worth it and I hope it works out as well for you and anyone else who tries it as it did for me.

[Demjor19]

How thick do you normally make your sand? Is a 1/2" to 3/4" ok?

[Fishguy2727]

That's fine. Thicker makes it more likely to develop toxic anoxic pockets. To prevent this just add some malaysian trumpet snails. They will keep the sand bed healthy. I have actually never had issues with toxic anoxic pockets nor heard of anyone having this issue, but apparently it does happen rarely with some sands.

I don't think any of mine are deeper than one inch.

[Demjor19]

That's fine. Thicker makes it more likely to develop toxic anoxic pockets. To prevent this just add some malaysian trumpet snails. They will keep the sand bed healthy. I have actually never had issues with toxic anoxic pockets nor heard of anyone having this issue, but apparently it does happen rarely with some sands.

I don't think any of mine are deeper than one inch.

The snails are definitely not an option in that tank! That also happens to be my Clown Loach tank and they LOVE snails! I'll just lightly stir the sand every once in a while to avoid any pockets. I should be adding the sand this week (hopefully tonight). I'm not sure if i'm going to do my Rhom's tank or my Severum/Loach tank.

Thanks for all the help.

[Demjor19]

Well, i switched the tank over to Estes sand last night and it seems awesome so far! Here's a link to my tank thread...in case you would like to check it out. There is still much work to be done, but the gravel is out and sand is in!

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=31616

Sorry...this no longer pertains to Discus.

[LORENZO]

hellooooo fish nutters anyone have any idea as to what kind of substrate for babies. i do not want to do a bare tank because i want plants in this new 75. HOw fine a sand can i use with plants? i am used to the clay like red seachem flourite.But too sharp i guess for the babies.

[Fishguy2727]

Regular sized sand is fine for plants, ideal for most.

[LORENZO]

Regular sized sand is fine for plants, ideal for most.
:8: i will try to use small print. now i have heard that too fine a sand is not good for plant roots. i have a fine gravel .... but i know fine sand will compact nicely for a fry tank. Loaches would love it. How fine a sand is the question.

[Lady Hobbs]

The argument here was not over sand versus gravel but rather bare bottom versus substrate (of any kind.)

Discus, in my opinion, are really beautiful in a planted tank but are moved to bare bottom tanks for spawning and the fry also kept in bare bottom for ease of cleaning and the constant water changes that are needed. Fry is also feed much more often than adults and their tanks can get dirty if not kept very clean and vacuumed daily.

I can also understand people who wish to have bare bottoms in all their Discus tanks especially if the parents will be raising the fry for a few weeks. Certainly makes for cleaner tanks and easier to net those babies when plants are not in the way.

I am not opposed to bare bottom tanks at all especially if you've added a few potted plants to the tank. Then you have the best of both worlds....bare bottom and plants.

[Lady Hobbs]

:8: i will try to use small print. now i have heard that too fine a sand is not good for plant roots. i have a fine gravel .... but i know fine sand will compact nicely for a fry tank. Loaches would love it. How fine a sand is the question.

My last sand purchase was wayyyyyyyyyy wrong! I got the fine sand and it packs down way too easily. I ended up mixing some gravel with it and that does not help as the rocks come to the top, anyway, and it's impossibly to vac without filling my sink full of sand. Believe me, you do NOT want a fine sand but something more coarse that your gravel vac will not pick up.

[Fishguy2727]

I use Estes' Marine Sand. It has been the perfect size for every tank so far.