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Fishguy2727
10-08-2008, 01:59 AM
There seems to be a lot od bad information and bad ways of thinking about stocking an aquarium.

Most common mistake and assumption: 'X many gallons can handle Y number of fish'.

There are MANY things that effect the maximum bioload (amount of fish plus food) that an aquarium can handle. The two most important are volume and water change schedule. The volume basically sets a general range for the maximum amount of fish. The most important is water change schedule.

Really the water change schedule in general dictates water quality, which is really the most important aspect. Without water changes Tons of filtration on a 300 gallon tank can't handle even a school of tetras. Massive water changes on a smaller tank with adequate filtration can allow for a larger bioload than the average water change schedule on the same size tank.

There are mistakes being made on both sides when stocking is being discussed. The person simply asking 'How many fish can go in my 29' is assuming that stocking level is based just on volume, and they are not taking into account the water change schedule and other factors. More at fault are all of those who simply start answering the question without asking 'what is the water change schedule?' or even 'What filtration do you have?'. The person asking may simply not be advanced enough to realize they need to be aware of these other issues, but they are asking for help. The others are neglecting to fully address the issue at hand and allowing others to keep looking at stocking in the wrong way.

Filtration does not just clean X many gallons the way the packaging suggests. Filters clean up after fish. A 75 with a school of full grown fancy goldfish needs a lot more filtration than if it was heavily planted with a few low-waste producing fish. Part of stocking an aquarium is providing the filtration to deal with those fish. Filtration can limit stocking. More filtration is never a bad thing. Barely meeting the minimal filtration needs of a certain setup is risking problems down the road. When the only or one of the filters stops running and you can't replace it for another week, if you only had the minimal to start with you are now faced with an under-filtered/overstocked tank.

In general the best measure of water quality is nitrate concentration. Nitrate is in general the end of the nitrogen cycle in an aquarium. In freshwater there are two main ways to remove nitrate, water changes and plants. With plants there has to be a very small bioload for that tank size and A LOT of plants. This is rarely the case and even then small water changes are needed. So in effect water changes are the only way to remove nitrate from the system. Nitrate itself will build in concentration over time. This can stress the fish, cause stunting, and can lead to illness and death. In addition, there are many other things that can build up over time. Growth inhibiting hormones are given off by many species of fish which can stunt conspecifics and cause the same problems as nitrate. There are also dissolved organic compounds and other things that slowly build up over time, causing stress, illness, and possibly death. Even if extremes such as illness and death are not caused, a general failure to thrive can occur. This means that even though the fish seem fine, they would be doing EVEN better (sometimes much better) if water quality was improved. In general these chemicals will not build up if adequate water changes are done. Although we cannot test for these other harmful chemcials, they do tend to correlate with nitrate concentration which is easily tested for. It is generally recommended to keep nitrate concentration under 20ppm.

So a more appropriate answer to 'How many fish can I put in my X gallon tank?' without asking any questions would be: 'However many you can have with your water change schedule and keep the nitrate concentration under 20ppm'.

This brings us to another important aspect, the upper limits of aquariums and large fish. Even if you can keep the nitrate concentration down (water quality up), there is still an upper limit to the stocking density. I tried this with a 40high. I did massive weekly water changes and the water quality was in ideal range. However, at a certain point it is simply so crowded that the fish are stressed not by water quality, but by the simple presence of so many other fish in the tank. This became apparent at about 80 fish in my situation in the 40high. At about that population mystery deaths started to occur as well as other signs that the fish were not thriving. I cut down the population and a happier, healthier community resulted. I do not suggest this and it is much better to prevent issues than treat them (don't fill your tank until they start dying to figure out the maximum population).

In addition to simply being crowded, we come to the topic of big fish and their minimal tank sizes. Water quality is still most important. But with big fish and schooling fish, you face a minimum in addition to that of maintaining water quality. In general, the tank should be at least as wide as the longest fish is long. So a cichlid that is 15" long should be in a tank at least 15" wide, to allow for an arguably comfortable turnaround. There are a few exceptions to this. Fish that are very long and extremely flexible do not require the turnaround width like bulkier fish do. These would be fish like ropefish, bichirs, and eels. These fish can be 18" long and turn around comfortably in a 12" wide tank. This does not mean you can crowd a bunch into a 55, but that the minimum width rule is not really in effect. Schooling fish also require larger than expected tanks. For example: giant danios generally only get to about 4" or so, but since they are so active and do like to school (a school is generally considered at least 6 fish) they should be in something like a 30long at minimum, some would even say a 55. Goldfish are another example. Many suggest 20 gallons for one and an additional ten gallons for each additional goldfish. This is a good guide, but since they do school this means that in order to have fancy goldfish you should really have at least a 75 gallon aquarium. For the more active, and larger, long-bodied goldfish it is generally recommended to have at least a 125.

Fish behavior also needs to be taken into account. An active species needs more space than a less active species of the exact same size. So things like danios, although small, need a larger tank one-because they are so active, and two-because they school. Aggressive species need special attention as well. Although they can turnaround in a 125 and you may maintain the water quality, five oscars in a 125 will end up most likely killing each other, there is simply not enough room for all of them. This is especially true of cichlids when they pair off, they will become extremely aggressive and may lay claim to the entire tank as their territory. These fish were not made to be in aquariums. Many of them have territories in the wild larger than almost any aquarium they are kept in. So when they pair off they are not required to obey your feeling that there is enough room for everyone.

Another commonly overlooked aspect is nocturnal fish. They hide away unseen during the day, but can be VERY active at night when the lights are out and the fishkeeper is not watching. As far as the keeper knows it is a medium fish that hides all the time and is very lazy. Only they do not realize that at night that fish is all over the place, possibly stressing out the diurnal fish that are now trying to rest. This can even cause things like mystery disappearances of fish. People see healthy fish and yet they keep disappearing. The culprit may be that otherwise very lazy catfish that at night goes after the sleeping fish the keeper has seen disappearing.

An increase in tank size does not mean the keeper can now become lazy about water quality. Yes, a larger tank does mean that water quality will stay a little higher, but that does not allow any laziness on the part of the keeper. Since many upgrades are made for a growing fish, the water quality will still need to be maintained and water changes schould remain just as often and as large.

Fishguy2727
10-08-2008, 02:00 AM
Any fishkeeper needs to occasionally check the nitrate concentration to ensure that water quality is actually being maintained. Many have a tendency to get in the habit of a water change schedule but fail to adjust it to the fish growing. In addition, what seemed like a great water change schedule at first, may actually just mean that the nitrate concentration will rise much slower than usual, not actually maintain the ideal level of no more than 20ppm. If the tank is being under-maintained in other ways there could also be a significant increase in nitrate concentration. If debris is trapped in the gravel and not being removed it will eventually break down and be converted into nitrate. Many or probably most keepers tend to not maintain their filters often enough. This can cause the same problem. The debris they collected will eventually break down and cause nitrate problems. To help prevent these issues and catch them early it is important to check nitrate concentration on a regular basis (for example, once a month) even on tanks that are doing amazingly well.

Many keepers feel it should 'not be fixed if it is not broken'. Unfortunately this can mean that problems that are slowly developing but not causing any major problems immediately are overlooked and develop to the point where they cannot be fixed and the result is harm to the fish, either by stunting, severe stress, or death.

Stocking is far from a very over-simplified quick rule of thumb like 'one inch per gallon', 'one inch of fish per inch of tank length', and other 'rules'. It is very complex and everything from fish behavior to your ability to properly maintain water quality needs to be considered.

Northernguy
10-08-2008, 02:14 AM
Very well written.Very informative and should answer a lot of questions.
I hope this gets stickied! :c3:


Are your fingers sore yet!

Red
10-08-2008, 02:14 AM
IMO that was great... thats what i follow when trying to help someone with a thread...
STICKY!

gourami*girl
10-08-2008, 11:05 AM
Very nice tread Fishguy2727, I agree, STICKY! :19:

Here's a question, though. You said that schooling fish need more room than the same number/length/bioload of non-schooling fish. I had understood this to be the other way around. (Because schooling fish tend to stay in groups each individual fish needs less room b/c it doesn't mind being close to its neighbors). I agree your danio suggestion for a larger tank is correct, but I thought that was simply b/c danios are so active and need lots of room to swim around. Would it be true for a less active schooling fish, also?

Maybe I'm just confused, but I could have sworn I read that in one of the fish books I picked up when starting my tank.

Fishguy2727
10-08-2008, 11:50 AM
You may have, but I can't think of a single book that is perfect.

The biggest reason is because the school as a whole needs more room. One neon tetra doesn't need as much space as six, but that shouldn't matter because they should always be in a school. One fantail goldfish can fit in a 30, but it is naturally a schooling fish and should not be left alone. So in order to properly care for these species you need to provide a school and therefore a tank large enough to handle that school.

gourami*girl
10-08-2008, 12:32 PM
You may have, but I can't think of a single book that is perfect.

The biggest reason is because the school as a whole needs more room. One neon tetra doesn't need as much space as six, but that shouldn't matter because they should always be in a school. One fantail goldfish can fit in a 30, but it is naturally a schooling fish and should not be left alone. So in order to properly care for these species you need to provide a school and therefore a tank large enough to handle that school.

Oh, OK, I see what you are saying... schooling fish need a larger tank b/c they should never be left by themselves. I thought you were saying that each individual fish needs more room b/c they are a schooling variety.

Thanks for the clarification! :11:

bushwhacker
10-08-2008, 10:10 PM
great write up thanks

mrs fishpatrick
10-08-2008, 10:22 PM
very usefull info, :19: :19:

Veloth
10-09-2008, 10:32 AM
Very nicely written. I agree with the others, it needs to be a sticky.
Mike

CAllain
10-09-2008, 10:44 AM
Good write up :) The activity factor is why I think kuhli loaches need at least a 20 gallon but no one agrees with me :(

I think it should be a sticky, too many people still use the inch per gallon rule.

ILuvMyGoldBarb
10-09-2008, 11:49 AM
Good write up :) The activity factor is why I think kuhli loaches need at least a 20 gallon but no one agrees with me :(

You might be surprised to find out just how many do agree with you.:c1:

Fishguy2727
10-09-2008, 11:51 AM
They also school. Quite a site to see six kuhlii loaches piled up in the same little crevice.

CAllain
10-09-2008, 12:02 PM
We used to have 6 in a 120L and they'd use the whole length of the tank when they came out... then I hear people recommend them for a 40L because they just hide most of the time, they don't tend to listen much when I mention that even though they do hide a lot, when they are active, they're VERY active.

Lady Hobbs
10-09-2008, 12:13 PM
I stickied it but sometimes the stickies tend to be ignored. Maybe they should have flashing lights and arrows pointing to them. LOL

Agree with all you've written. Fish that are territoral like their space and just because 8 might fit in a 55 gallon, it doesn't mean they will get along. The bosses of the tank will keep the smaller and weaker ones near the top of the tank and not allow them to have a territory of their own.

teach
10-10-2008, 12:13 AM
Very good write up. Even after keeping fish this long I have learned alot too. We should recommend this to every new person who joins the sight.

Fishguy2727
10-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Most importantly are all of those replying to threads started by beginners. They need to understand how to properly deal with those questions. It seems like 95% of the time when someone asks about stocking it is basic volume and fish, no mentioning of filtration or water changes. That is what has to definitely change.

ILuvMyGoldBarb
10-10-2008, 02:11 AM
Most importantly are all of those replying to threads started by beginners. They need to understand how to properly deal with those questions. It seems like 95% of the time when someone asks about stocking it is basic volume and fish, no mentioning of filtration or water changes. That is what has to definitely change.

Couldn't agree more. Well written.

paulo64
11-06-2008, 10:47 PM
i agree with you 100 percent! very well writtenn and good detail you should write books!

Fishguy2727
11-21-2009, 02:44 AM
Open your own thread.

tetra
11-21-2009, 02:53 AM
Thanks this helped me clearify a few things that i was concerend about setting up my 60 gallon.

Rue
12-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Hi! You'll have better luck if you ask your question under 'fish diseases'.

Do you have pictures of the ulcer? That would help you get a useful answer as well.

missjessicafaye
04-23-2012, 07:48 AM
Very helpful thank you!

Kerrilynn80
06-08-2012, 06:58 AM
I have 4 tetra in a 20 gallon tank and added 2 mollies yesterday and one is very aggresive and stressing out the tetra any ides??

steeler58
08-28-2012, 06:52 PM
You may have, but I can't think of a single book that is perfect.

The biggest reason is because the school as a whole needs more room. One neon tetra doesn't need as much space as six, but that shouldn't matter because they should always be in a school. One fantail goldfish can fit in a 30, but it is naturally a schooling fish and should not be left alone. So in order to properly care for these species you need to provide a school and therefore a tank large enough to handle that school.

I remember my first Innes book (1969), he had so many fish shoved into aquriums just by his theory of using more aeriation, he also did not recommend water changes, just siphon and strain than reuse, WOW!

steeler58
08-28-2012, 06:56 PM
I have 4 tetra in a 20 gallon tank and added 2 mollies yesterday and one is very aggresive and stressing out the tetra any ides??

Add more neons at least four but I would go with six, the neons will fill more secure and the molly won't be able to single out an individule or replace the molly. Mollies at least in the past had a reputation as potential bullies.

MrJim
01-13-2013, 12:06 PM
http://aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php?AqVolUnit=gUS&AqTempUnit=F&AqLengthUnit=inch

This site is helpful for stocking~you have to enter tank size and filters, they have menus for selecting brand/size of filters and room for two filter entries and the fish are specific species not simply family and they have helpful footnotes when you enter regarding recommended school size.

Mollymouse
01-04-2014, 07:37 AM
Hello! I hope this is the right place to ask this question. I have been trying for several years to get a long term, happy ten gallon tank. I am aware that this is a somewhat small tank so fish stocking has to be thought out very carefully. The last tank I had was going quite well until one of my fish became aggressive and soon was the only fish left. I have been thinking of a few different fish to put in my new tank but I wanted some thoughts. I like dwarf gouramis, but if I have them I could probably only have those two fish, a male and female, and perhaps one small algea eater if I can find one that is small and can tolerate solidarity. My other thought was a small school, that is five maybe six, neon tetras, also with one small algae eater. The final hope would be to have the gouramis with the neons and the algae ester, but I suspect the tank could not handle this. What are your thoughts?

Hockey nut
02-07-2017, 07:21 PM
i think Lady Hobbs is right, stickies tend to get ignored by new comers. I have been a member for 5 days know and just started looking at the stickies. I think It my have to do with the knowledge of some of your members. I did my introduction post and there were 4 or 5 who did more then casual welcome. Then I started a journal and those same 4 or 5 were right there posting again. I figured if they kept posting I would just pick their brains.
Any new comer or anyone who has a question about stocking, NEEDS to read this. Even with all the help I have received this stickY cleared up a lot for me.:thankyouyellow: