What am I doing wrong?

[flutterbye75]

Okay, I have been trying to fishless cycle my 55g tank now for 3 weeks now. I have added plants and all the decor, plus used a couple of squeezes from a sponge from an established tank........and still nothing......??? I am doing the add ammonia and wait method.
ammonia 5
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
pH 7.5

What am I doing wrong. I should at least have trace nitrite readings by now right?

[Alfcea]

Did you add live plants? Do the ammonia readings go down (to zero) after a few hours of having added it? If the (live) plants are growing, they are probably using the ammonia you add as a nutrient... in that case you don't need to cycle and it would be safe to add fish....

[flutterbye75]

Did you add live plants? Do the ammonia readings go down (to zero) after a few hours of having added it? If the (live) plants are growing, they are probably using the ammonia you add as a nutrient... in that case you don't need to cycle and it would be safe to add fish....

Yes, I added live plants.....and no, they dont go down. I am using a no name brand of ammonia that has no additives. I have tested the water everyday and the ammonia does not decrease. There is no readings for nitrites or nitrates either.

I am so confused as to what to do. I have read every article imaginable, and thought I was finally ready to attempt a fishless cycle. Just a bit frustrated that I have seen no progress yet.

[fins_n_fur]

Two questions:
1. What's your heater set to? Get it up to 86 or so.
2. Where did you put the "squeezings" from the established filter? If you just put in the tank, it's not going to be of much help. Better to get the "squeezings" into your filter material.

Still, you need to have some patience, but you should be seeing some results soon.

Edit: One more question--what sort of test kit are using? Strips or drops?

[flutterbye75]

Two questions:
1. What's your heater set to? Get it up to 86 or so.
2. Where did you put the "squeezings" from the established filter? If you just put in the tank, it's not going to be of much help. Better to get the "squeezings" into your filter material.

Still, you need to have some patience, but you should be seeing some results soon.

My heater is about 82. I put the squeezings into my filter. Behind the filter to be exact. I have a whisper 60 filter.

I will raise the temperature tonight when I test the water again. Do you have a preference on what method to use for a fishless cycle? I have read that you can either put enough ammonia in for a reading of 5, and then do tests everyday until you have a reading of nitrites, then add more ammonia to bring the readings back up. Or, add ammonia everyday until nitrite reads and then cut the ammonia in half?

[Alfcea]

Another question... how much ammonia are you adding every time? I agree with fins. A higher temperature will make it easier for the bacteria to get established and patience is something everybody needs while cycling a new tank...

[flutterbye75]

That is one of my concerns. My ammonia reading has not changed from 5ppm. Do I continue to add ammonia every day even though my reading doesnt change from 5ppm, or wait until there is a change in the ammonia level and then add more?

[fins_n_fur]

My heater is about 82. I put the squeezings into my filter. Behind the filter to be exact. I have a whisper 60 filter.

I will raise the temperature tonight when I test the water again. Do you have a preference on what method to use for a fishless cycle? I have read that you can either put enough ammonia in for a reading of 5, and then do tests everyday until you have a reading of nitrites, then add more ammonia to bring the readings back up. Or, add ammonia everyday until nitrite reads and then cut the ammonia in half?
I would add enough ammonia every day to keep the readings at about 4-5 ppm. This ensures a constant, steady source of "food" for the first set of bacteria. Once you have a nitrite spike, you should continue to add ammonia to keep to about 2-3 ppm until you have your nitrate spike.

Also running an air stone or ensuring the surface of the water is agitated enough encourages oxygen exchange which helps speed the cycle.

Another thing you could do, assuming you have access to the cycled tank, is bring some of your filter material over and mix and mash it into any "gunk" of the other filter. Put your filter material in a sealable container with tank water, dash home, and put this in your filter.

[flutterbye75]

I would add enough ammonia every day to keep the readings at about 4-5 ppm. This ensures a constant, steady source of "food" for the first set of bacteria. Once you have a nitrite spike, you should continue to add ammonia to keep to about 2-3 ppm.

Also running an air stone or ensuring the surface of the water is agitiated enough encourages oxygen exchange which also helps with the cycle.

Another thing you could do, assuming you have access to the cycled tank, is bring some of your filter material over and mix and mash it into any "gunk" of the other filter. Put your filter material in a sealable container with tank water, dash home, and put this in your filter.


Is it possible that my test kit is not working right. I have had it for a while. Do they 'go bad'?

I have an air stone in the opposite corner of the filter.

I also have already added 'gunk' to the filter in hopes that it will jump start the process.

I really dont know what else to do. I will bring a sample of my water to the lfs today just to compare readings with my test kit.

[travie]

Is it possible that my test kit is not working right. I have had it for a while. Do they 'go bad'?

I have an air stone in the opposite corner of the filter.

I also have already added 'gunk' to the filter in hopes that it will jump start the process.

I really dont know what else to do. I will bring a sample of my water to the lfs today just to compare readings with my test kit.


If it is a liquid test kit, yes, it can go bad. You would be better off leaving the the filter media in your tank and let it stay in the tank then just swishing it around the filter for a couple seconds. The bacteria isn't free floating, it clings to objects. So the gunk is mainly gunk with hardly benefits except more ammonia.

[fins_n_fur]

Test kits don't last forever, for sure. Most have an expiry date on them. We'll see what's up once get your water tested at the LFS and what they say.

[flutterbye75]

I will post later tonight after I visit. Maybe I will purchase a new test kit just in case.

[fins_n_fur]

I should have asked this earlier, but just dawned on me now. Are you using any water conditioning product? If you are, that might be skewing your test results.

[flutterbye75]

no, I filled the tank with tap water.......I did not see the need for a water conditioner since I was not adding fish right away. I let the tank sit for 2 days before I started the cycle process to allow for any chlorine to evaporate. I also have not added any water to the tank since then

[fins_n_fur]

Okay, right thing to do. Let's see what your LFS says.

[gourami*girl]

no, I filled the tank with tap water.......I did not see the need for a water conditioner since I was not adding fish right away. I let the tank sit for 2 days before I started the cycle process to allow for any chlorine to evaporate. I also have not added any water to the tank since then

Are you sure your water is only treated with chlorine and not chloramine? If there is chloramine in the water I have read that it won't neutralize by sitting for several days like chorine will and it could prevent the growth of your bacteria. For this reason I have added water conditioner to my tank while fishless cycling. Not sure if I'm right about all this, but it's a thought. Maybe more expierenced users could comment.

[Alfcea]

no, I filled the tank with tap water.......I did not see the need for a water conditioner since I was not adding fish right away.

If your water is treated with chloramines, then that is the reason why you are not growing any bacteria. Chloramines do not go away easily. you need to add a chmeical to remove them... and, of course, they completely inhibit the growth of all types of bacteria, good and bad.....

[flutterbye75]

If your water is treated with chloramines, then that is the reason why you are not growing any bacteria. Chloramines do not go away easily. you need to add a chmeical to remove them... and, of course, they completely inhibit the growth of all types of bacteria, good and bad.....

what water conditioner do you recommend for this?

[gourami*girl]

I don't know how much of a difference there is between brands...the one I use is Tetra Aquasafe.

[Alfcea]

Actually, all of them are pretty much the same. They all have the same active principle: "methanal sulfoxylate", also known as "hydroxymethyl sulfinate" [HO-CH2-SO2-]... so the coice is up to you...

[flutterbye75]

Well, I got home finally, and tested my water again.......and I have nitrates. I never had nitrates before, but my ammonia is still high though. My readings are as follows

Ammonia 3.0 ppm
Nitrites 0 ppm
Nitrates between 5-10 ppm

What next?

[concretephil]

k, my first thought was that you needed to turn down the temp a little bit (say around 78), and just go get 2 or 3 danios (they're very hardy and they make great cycling fish). but I honestly couldn't tell you if they're hardy enough to survive 3ppm NH4. what should have happened if your tank was cycling in a stable manner was first an NH4 spike then NO2 spike with NH4 dropping, then NO3 spike with NH4 and NO2 at 0ppm. IMO the best thing you could do is stop adding NH4 source material until it drops back down to 0ppm, then find 1,2, or 3 at the most, very hardy fish and place them in. this will give your tank a little more consistent conditions in which to cycle and stabilize. after that, add fish gradually ( 1 per week, safe side) until you have all the fish you want. and make sure the temp requirements of the fish you want, 82 is a little on the high side for a lot of species and even if they can tolerate it, the higher heat will cause them to produce more waste, making your tank a little harder to manage in the long run (even after it's established)

[concretephil]

P.S. if you turn down the heat, do it gradually so as not to shock and kill the plants

[flutterbye75]

k, my first thought was that you needed to turn down the temp a little bit (say around 78), and just go get 2 or 3 danios (they're very hardy and they make great cycling fish). but I honestly couldn't tell you if they're hardy enough to survive 3ppm NH4. what should have happened if your tank was cycling in a stable manner was first an NH4 spike then NO2 spike with NH4 dropping, then NO3 spike with NH4 and NO2 at 0ppm. IMO the best thing you could do is stop adding NH4 source material until it drops back down to 0ppm, then find 1,2, or 3 at the most, very hardy fish and place them in. this will give your tank a little more consistent conditions in which to cycle and stabilize. after that, add fish gradually ( 1 per week, safe side) until you have all the fish you want. and make sure the temp requirements of the fish you want, 82 is a little on the high side for a lot of species and even if they can tolerate it, the higher heat will cause them to produce more waste, making your tank a little harder to manage in the long run (even after it's established)

Okay, first, adding fish misses the whole point of doing a fishless cycle.

Second, turning the heat down contradicts the advice that was previously given in this thread to raise the temp to about 86.

Third, I have not added anymore ammonia to the tank, because the ammonia was still at 5ppm.

So, I am back to what next?

[concretephil]

sorry, just tryin to help, not sure how I'm missed the part about you wanting to do a fishless cycle, but I did.... anyway on that note, if you want to do it quick, use the cycle in a bottle stuff, and use them as directed so that you can be sure that you're dosing the tank consistently ( you don't want your tank on an ammonia roller coaster) and they usually contain water conditioners also. other than that, it's probably gonna take awhile, I've only done it once, where all I used was a piece of drift wood that had been intended as reptile furniture (it worked by the way, the tank now supports a breeding pair of kribs) but it took about two months. as for the heat thing, that's just my opinion as was it just the opinion of others that you should turn it up. and again, sorry for missing the point on the fishless part. good luck :)

[flutterbye75]

I am wondering if I should add more ammonia today, and is it normal to have ammonia and nitrates without nitrites?

[Alfcea]

Even if you see nitrates, the fact that you still see ammonia means that your tank is not cycled.

I don't think it would be a good idea to stop adding ammonia now. Keep adding it so as to keep feeding the nitrosomonas that are establishing... by the way, have you tried adding some of the "bacteria in a bottle" that are sold in pet shops? That might help...

Anyways, I think you should keep adding your ammonia until you can get it to decrease to zero and you actually see nitrites building up. After they too decrease to zero then you will have successfully cycled... Patience, again....

[flutterbye75]

Well, I took some water to my lfs just to check to see if they read the same things I do, and low and behold, they were the same readings.....so the kit is fine. Im not going to worry about it anymore. I will continue to add ammonia and wait. Thanks and if I run into some more trouble, I will call upon the greater powers in this forum once again.

[flutterbye75]

:confused: So, I tested my water again this morning to find that my Nitrates have gone up some more about, 10ppm more. I still have no Nitrites reading though. My ammonia is still high as well, about 4ppm. Should I not have a nitrite spike at some point? Is it possible that I missed the spike? Should I still have ammonia readings?

I read somewhere that if there is too much ammonia for the filter to process, the levels wont go down without a water change. :confused:

[fins_n_fur]

Well, good that the LFS confirmed that your test kit apparently is okay. Not that this will be a comfort, but I'm struggling to understand how you have nitrates, but not nitrites--it almost defies logic and the basic principles of the universe :hmm3grin2orange: . Or you have them, and they are just not registering on the test kit yet. Let's give it a few more days and see what happens. Keep with it...this is the part that is the most frustating and agonizing. Have you done your fish research? What are you wanting to stock the tank with <badly veiled attempt to keep your mind off of the cycling>>?

[flutterbye75]

Well, good that the LFS confirmed that your test kit apparently is okay. Not that this will be a comfort, but I'm struggling to understand how you have nitrates, but not nitrites--it almost defies logic and the basic principles of the universe :hmm3grin2orange: . Or you have them, and they are just not registering on the test kit yet. Let's give it a few more days and see what happens. Keep with it...this is the part that is the most frustating and agonizing. Have you done your fish research? What are you wanting to stock the tank with <badly veiled attempt to keep your mind off of the cycling>>?

:hmm3grin2orange: Thanks for the attempt to keep my mind on to other stuff. I have done quite a bit research on what I would like to see in my tank. I think I will keep a species tank (I like species tanks). I have narrowed it down to either german blue rams, appistos (I am also liking the dwarfs), or keyholes. The only problem that I forsee with this is finding the little creatures. They are not easy to locate. I will keep my eyes peeled though.

[Alfcea]

Hmmm, I wonder...

You said you seeded your filter with media from an established tank, right? Have you, at any point, seen some cloudiness in the water?

I think what's going on is that, for some reason, the squeezes that you got from the established tank seeded more nitrobacter than nitrosomonas... (they may be stronger, I'm not sure) and therefore, as soon as some nitrite is being formed, it is immediately consumed and transformed into nitrate. That's why you have never seen a nitrite build-up. However, because you don't yet have enough nitrosomonas not all the ammonia is being metabolized... If you haven't seen any cloudiness (bacterial bloom), that would support my idea...

If you keep your temperature high and keep adding a steady source of ammonia, you should see those colonies of nitrosomonas grow quickly... after all, they are there already! I think you are almost there... Just a few more days, I am sure!

[flutterbye75]

I have not seen any cloudiness. I was thinking the same thing (after much research why I have nitrates and no nitrites). I am continuing to add ammonia, but do I add the daily dose, or should I cut it in half?

[Alfcea]

I would keep adding the daily dose...

[flutterbye75]

Finally!

I took my readings this morning and to my surprise.......:19: I have nitrites:19:!

My readings are as follows:

Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrites: .25ppm (not much but at least they are registering)
Nitrates: 40+ppm

This is very exciting for me.

I added the daily ammonia and hopefully tomorrow there will be more results.

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

[fins_n_fur]

Ah! Progress! How cool is that! You must be very excited!

[flutterbye75]

Ah! Progress! How cool is that! You must be very excited!

Considering this is my first fishless cycle......I am very excited!

Thank you for your help!

[flutterbye75]

Well I got up today to do my daily readings.......and my readings are as follows.....

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 80+ppm

:19:Could it be that my cycle is finished?:19:

[fins_n_fur]

It certainly looks that way! Nothing like a bit of filter gunge to speed things a long! Well done and congratulations...Just need a huge water change and then you can get fish. You want those nitrates at 40 or less.

[flutterbye75]

:19: I just did my big water change..........nitrates are at 10ppm now. Look out lfs......here I come!!!:19:

:hmm3grin2orange:

[Commodore 64]

Get those fish in there ASAP, you don't want your bacteria to starve.

[fins_n_fur]

Get those fish in there ASAP, you don't want your bacteria to starve.
She's got a beautiful pair of German blue rams in there :19:

[Sir Tristen]

Congrats on finishing the cycle! My patience is being tried by a cycle right now too.

[flutterbye75]

Do you think that the 2 German rams will be enough to continue to feed the bacteria? Should I get some tetras to add to the tank?