New to Dwarfs

[kaianuanu]

hi, i have a 20 gallon(not long version), i was considering dwarfs. i was specifically interested in german blue rams, Bolivian rams, or cockatoos. Especially cockatoos, could i keep like 4 cockatoos in a 20? I know virtually nothing about dwarfs.

[kaianuanu]

i forgot to add that i also am interested in dwarf pike cichlds.

[kaianuanu]

i once saw a small 2" fish in an LFS that i think was a pike it was bright yellow like an electric yellow lab. does anyone know what i may have saw? And has everyone gone to sleep?

[Dave66]

I am near completion on a dwarf cichlid post with thumbnails of several species that will help educate you on the needs of particular dwarf cichlid fishes. In the mean time, if you hunt up my Geophagan post, it has an entry on Rams (specifically Mikrogeophagus ramerezi) that will help you make appropriate choices with them.

Dave

[johnpeezy]

A really nice guy from another forum gave me this link when I was trying to start up a breeder tank with dwarfs.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I read up on this site and actually sent him a few E-mails
he was really helpful and so were his sites.


A note on apistogramma cackatauidies

They operate in a harem,

the male defends a large territory with several females contained in it.

so fi you were going to get more then one get one male the rest females.

two males would not get along

[kaianuanu]

are they like large cichlids just smaller? im about to go to that link

[kaianuanu]

I want do do german blue rams or cockatoos. Is one of these species more expensive to buy as another? how many do you reccomend i put in a 20 gal tall? 1 male and __ females.

[NickFish]

are they like large cichlids just smaller? im about to go to that link

No, not really.
They have a tenth the agression of african cichlids, and will not rip up plants like larger cichlids. They are not destructive, very rarely kill one another (that doesn't mean they can't inflict damage though), and will not injure other tank mates, except during breeding time. You couldn't put neon tetras in with africans or large south american cichlids, but they are an idea tank mate for apisto cacatuoides or a ram.

want do do german blue rams or cockatoos. Is one of these species more expensive to buy as another? how many do you reccomend i put in a 20 gal tall? 1 male and __ females.
I think that the cacauoides is more expensive in pet stores, but if you want a good quality german blue ram you probably aren't going to find one at your lfs. See the dozens of "asian bred" threads in this section for more info on that subject...

You couldn't put that many. With dwarfs its all about footprint....and I believe a 20g is only 24" long. Not a ton of footprint.

I think you could put a pair of one, or maybe a trio at most. Say a german blue ram pair and a single male apisto.

That and some dither fish.

Anyways, if you want a more accurate/in depth look at dwarf cichlids, you'll want to talk to Jess of Dave. They're the real experts on the topic, I've found.

Looking forward to your write-up Dave!

[johnpeezy]

It depends more on your tank setup rather then your footprint man. I would reccomend you go after a Apistogramma aggazizi then either one of those.

They are smaller and just seems healthier in general.

If your tank has lots of caves (clay flower pots 3") and plants (things to break line of site). Then you can house a few(2 or 3) female agazizi's with 1 and only 1 male just make sure there are more caves then fish, the same goes for the caucatoidies. Get some duck weed growing in your tank and let it coat the top for cover, it makes both apistogramma species more active they like there heads covered up.

You can even go so far as to set up a blackwater style tank for them but its more hessle then what its worth.

at my store we sell the GBR's and apistogramma caucatoidies for around 10-12 dollars. I paid 13.99 each for my apistogramma aggazizi when I got them from a diffrent petstore.

as far as GBR's go, I know they pair off and thats about all I know, oh that and for about every 20 we get in the store 10 die off within a day or two.

[NickFish]

It depends more on your tank setup rather then your footprint man.

Then you can house a few(2 or 3) female agazizi's with 1 and only 1 male just make sure there are more caves then fish, the same goes for the caucatoidies.

OK, so you pretty much agreed with what I said and recommended a trio. Isn't that what I said?

I agree that the set-up is important, but I have found the footprint to be more so. If you keep them in, say, a 10g, you can have the entire tank full of caves, but there will always be agression. Where as if you were to keep them in a 55g you can have no caves at all, only plants, and have very little agression.

[johnpeezy]

OK, so you pretty much agreed with what I said and recommended a trio. Isn't that what I said?

I agree that the set-up is important, but I have found the footprint to be more so. If you keep them in, say, a 10g, you can have the entire tank full of caves, but there will always be agression. Where as if you were to keep them in a 55g you can have no caves at all, only plants, and have very little agression.

kind of. I would not reccomend housing a pair of GBR and 1 male apistogramma of anytype together, you would just be setting up that male apistogramma for a miserable life due to aggression. Then you would need a large tank.

if you create a species specific tank with a harem of apistogramma agazizi or caucatoides. you can have a much smaller footprint with more females and one male. The male claims a territory which in this case would be a 20 gallon tank that has several females in it.

At the time the females are ready to breed thats when aggression will start between the females, they will begin to chase the other females away from the male and try to coax him into a spawning cave. When the male fianlly decides who is going to be his mate for the time being that temporary PAIR will begin to chase the other females away from all the spawning locations in the territory. After breeding and wigglers are present (before if you can tell wether the eggs are viable), it is usually reccomended that you remove all fish except the mother since she will become so aggressive she has the potential of killing everyone in the tank even her mate.

(NOTE: some forms of apistogramma will share there fry with other females to increase chances of survival, but you have to monitor them very closley at the first sign of agression remove the other female from the tank)

The apistogramma mentioned above aren't aggressive all the time infact when nobody is trying to breed in the tank, there very peacful amongst each other. Female apistogramma aggression isn't associated with there territory, the males are. Females base there aggression on breeding. So if you have more breeding locations then fish you should be fine up to the point of having wigglers in your tank, then everything goes out the window.

but until that point you could house I would say 3 females 1 male apistogramma caucatoidie or agazizi.

Read up on them there an interesting fish, and very fun to keep. I have both an agazizi and caucatoide tanks setup as breeders. One twenty long and one twenty standard.

20 long contains:
2 dwarf red graumies (breeding), 2 female caucatoide and one male (breeding with both females) gold nugget pleco, flat flyer pleco, 2 zebra botia (which I need to get them out of there) and a otocicilus

20 standard contains: this tank setup is still in the works may add more fish
2 female agazizi and one male (there new still only about 2 months old)
and one giant royal pleco

[NickFish]

The apistogramma mentioned above aren't aggressive all the time infact when nobody is trying to breed in the tank, there very peacful amongst each other.


Not exactly model citizens, but yes, they do not do any harm to the other fish. Which is why one male would be an ok candidate.

Also, you could reconsider the stocking in those tanks. You have probably already heard this a million times, but just in case. The otocinclus should be in schools of at least 5, the plecos need much bigger tanks.

[johnpeezy]

The apistogramma WILL do harm to other fish during breeding just like most other cichlids, for example if you have a pair of german blue rams attempting to pair off, and you have one male apistogramma in the tank, who do you think is going to get the snot beat out of them, get it now?

I mean sheesh, you suggested to me that I rethink the stocking issues in my tank and you say that? those twenty gallons are fine thanks, in the event I do have the freakishly large species of gold nugget pleco I can stick him in one of my other 15 tanks.

everyone else stays small enough for there spaces, and the otto was a rescue.

[NickFish]

The apistogramma WILL do harm to other fish during breeding just like most other cichlids, for example if you have a pair of german blue rams attempting to pair off, and you have one male apistogramma in the tank, who do you think is going to get the snot beat out of them, get it now?

I mean sheesh, you suggested to me that I rethink the stocking issues in my tank and you say that? those twenty gallons are fine thanks, in the event I do have the freakishly large species of gold nugget pleco I can stick him in one of my other 15 tanks.

everyone else stays small enough for there spaces, and the otto was a rescue.

There is plenty of room if a GBR pair wants to breed. Especially if you provide them both with their own caves.

When my dwarf cichlids spawn in my community tank, there is barely any agression at all. They take about a 4" circle around the spot and thats it. If I piece of food falls in their circle and anther fish goes for it, then you have trouble. But other than that, my other dwarfs don't go near them.