Got some new shrimp for free...

[Sounguru]

So I'm looking at my 15 gallon critter delux hotel... You know the one the one with the leeches, cherries, 4 types of snails, damsel fly larvae, Planaria, and detritus worms and I'm thinkin what else does this tank need? Bam what do you know this .5 inch thing that looks like a giant flea scuttles across the bottom on my tank.... I'm thinkin aw crap the frontline worked so well on the dogs how am I gonna apply that to every thing in this tank? So off to the internet I go....

So I'm trippin through cyberspace, actually knocked over someones blog sorry about that, lookin for what this darn flea like giant monster might be, and what do I find it isn't a water flea way to big for that it is actually a freshwater shrimp..... It is called Amphipods or scud for short... Good news is as long as it is alive that means my water conditions are spot on because this thing can not live in bad water.

Here is a pic stolen from the net to show what these guys look like.....

http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/951/55073042.JPG

Seems thet they eat mainly debris but I have found one site that says they do eat living things smaller than themselves so we will have to see. They are also reported to be born from eggs fully formed, which they do quite often..... :coffeetime:

[Jacko]

Congrats Sounguru! I've been wanting to get some but I don't have a fishless tank right now and don't plan on having one and these are supposed to make very, very good fish food. :hmm3grin2orange:

[Sounguru]

I have no clue where they came in....

[Halelorf]

They are usually in wild waters like ponds, streams, lakes, etc. I use to look at those all the time in primary school biology. You probably got them from either a very mature fw tank when you added livestock or it piggybacked if you took anything from outside waters. You will have tons of those in no time. They will help eat stuff from the bottom and they are free fish food!

[Gemini]

Thanks for doing my research for me guru!!! I have the same things scurrying quickly around the bottom of my shrimpy tank. I kept getting the turkey baster and trying to suck them out to work what they were. All I thought was they looked like a flea and I was sure they would be detrimental. I had no idea how to get them all out.
Also glad to hear I'm not the only one with a whole bunch of interesting inhabitants in my shrimp tank! Worms, fleas, and god knows what else!!

[toddnbecka]

From what I've gathered they're more of a pest than a pet. They will eat anything that holds still long enough, including pretty much any sort of plants (dead or alive) if there's not enough food to go around. They burrow in the substrate and are somewhere between difficult and impossible to get rid of w/out resorting to extreme measures. Some fish will eat them... if they can catch them.

[Gemini]

Oh. Well thanks for the bubble pop ;). Ok how would we go about getting rid of these things? They move pretty fast - I only have cherry shrimp in the tank so I dont want to poison anything (especially with the price of cherry shrimp here!!). But I think they may be bad, as I think they are eating my babies :(.
Guru - do you add food for your shrimp? Or do they just eat algae?
Also I have some white flat looking worms on the glass that seem to try to eat the babies, what are these things?

Should I just do a large water change and give no food for awhile? They usually just get a piece of Java Moss from the other tank put in there for them. Please help I will cry and cry if my cherries don't have babies!!!!!

[Sounguru]

I have 100 babes or so in my tank now and I see no loss at this time and I have Planaria (possibly your white worms if they have a little arrowhead shaped heads), Leeches, and Scuds in my tank.

From all the information I have found these guys eat detritus and decaying plant matter a lot like snails. I only found one site that mentioned that they might eat things living smaller than they are and it was not an official site in anyway but more of a I heard that they might type sight. Not saying I'm an expert in any form of course.

I think a lot of the critters that people panic over don't really do as much harm as people say it is more of let's cry wolf.... I pulled 7 damsel fly larave out of one tank and they had been in there for at least 3 months. Yes when I removed them I did notice a real spike in the amount of young I had, but I was still seeing an increase although slower when they were still in there.

I feed my invert tanks 1 or 2 veggies a day and once a week a pinch of fish food or alage wafer to get to those inverts that live in among the gravel.

So as I see it it is all a balance, if you can strike that balance you can have a wide variety of critters in a tank. Aquariums by the standards we keep them to day are actually out of whack from the way nature would run the same puddle. We try and control all aspects and God has an amazing way with all the critters he has created to strike that balance naturally.

In my 15 gallon tank I am working towards that balance and here is what I have done so far....

I have gravel in the bottom that I do not vaccum. This is a larger sized gravel so it allows the food particles to reach the bottom thus creating a sludge layer and a nutrient factory for plants. In that gravel layer lives a whole host of things starting with detritus worms that eat that sludge on the bottom, helping them in that are the Planaira, the Scuds, The Snails and maybe the leeches still trying to verify that. Now to keep the snails in check the assassin snails and possibably the leeches are at work. To keep the detritus worms and Planaria in check is I know for sure the leeches and possiably the scuds. To keep the Cherry shrimp population in check might be the leeches and the Scuds but this has not been confirmed. I do know before I removed the damsel fly larvae that were the check before the amount of fry was small but now it is larger but I do not know yet if it is out of control. Now to suck up all the waste I have a sponge filter and live plants. I do not us ferts, CO2 or have I done anything to the lights on this tank.

I have 4 varities of snails in this tank also to help the balance...
MTS: to stir the substrate and eat dead plant matter
Ponds: They breed quick and help with the sludge and alage
Ramshorns: To go after the alage and diatoms
Assassins: To take out the excess snails.

So just looking at the snail each has it's own check and balances by the amount of food or by the amount that they are hunted.

So now that I have rambled on basiaclly what I'm saying is let things balance first and if they don't then remove the unbalancing factor, but you have to monitior your tank daily in detail to do that.

[Sharkman]

you sir have one bright mind. I love hearing everything you have to say about aquatics and your experiences.

[Gemini]

Thanks guru! I feel a bit better now.

My shrimp tank I monitor daily - as in spend hours staring at it! I don't monitor the water with tests much anymore. Haven't really done so since I finished cycling. I change water every cpl of days in the tank about 5-10% as I know cherries like clean water and I'm worried to heck about killing them! The tank is only 21L approx 5.9G.
The substrate in the tank is calcium carbonate. The little white gravelly looking bits. I only feed them a bit of shrimp pellet or sinking wafer maybe once a week. A couple of times a week I drop in a bit of java fern. So I didn't think I was overfeeding them.

The white worms - I don't know if I have two. I see some skinny white worms swimming through the water like little snakes. They seem just round and white. The other worms are on the glass and seem flat. These are the ones that seem to chase the little white specks on the glass.
I haven't actually seen a baby shrimp. I just get these white flickying specks on the glass but haven't seen my population grow. I've had the shrimp now at least 6 weeks. I have two very obviously berried females. When should I expect babies?
The filter on the tank is part of it. It's one of those all in one things with the light and filter. I put sponge on the bottom of the filter intake to stop babies being sucked up. And it's planted fairly well. I thought that the plants would help suck up any excess nutrients and keep the nitrates in check.
I haven't got any white worms of any type in my 2ft or 4ft tanks - though the fish in the tanks would keep anything at bay!
I guess my problem is it took me months to find cherry shrimp here in Aus, and they weren't really cheap so I would really like them to have little babies!!
So Guru (and anyone else) - what would you do? Just keep trying to keep it balanced? Or try the bug catcher thing that fishalicious just wrote a thread about?

[Sounguru]

If you had baby shrimp you would be ablee to see them easily....

White worms in the water are detritus worms probably in you filter and just get kicked into the water column on occassion. The flat ones on the glass are Planaria.

Flying white specks are probably daphina or some other basically plaktonic life form.

How long have you had your shrimp and do any have saddles yet?

[Gemini]

Thanks guru - I thought the little white specks on the glass were babies. So are babies very obvious? As in obviously baby shrimp?
I bought the shrimp in the end of August. I think I've had them maybe 6 weeks max. When I got them there was one big female and about 6-7 males. The big female died, and I had two bigger clear shrimp and maybe 5 smaller ones. Then I saw two growing much redder, I have been watching them and they are extremely red in comparison and I have just noticed over the last 10-14 days a very obvious yellow looking saddle on the two red ones. It wasn't very obvious to start with but now it definately looks like a yellow saddle just behind the head. I assume these are the eggs?
How long will it take for these eggs to do anything? Is there anything I can do to help the babies? When would I see them? Would the planaria or detritus worms be eating the babies? There's a good two softball size clumps of java moss, at least 5 java ferns, and a big red and purple plant in the tank. I have some other plants in my 2ft tank, and some tiny bits of driftwood. Would this help? Sorry for so many questions I guess I'm so concerned because the shrimp are so hard to find here and I really really love watching them!!!

[Gemstone]

you sir have one bright mind. I love hearing everything you have to say about aquatics and your experiences.

I concur...........................

[Sounguru]

Thanks guru - I thought the little white specks on the glass were babies. So are babies very obvious? As in obviously baby shrimp?
I bought the shrimp in the end of August. I think I've had them maybe 6 weeks max. When I got them there was one big female and about 6-7 males. The big female died, and I had two bigger clear shrimp and maybe 5 smaller ones. Then I saw two growing much redder, I have been watching them and they are extremely red in comparison and I have just noticed over the last 10-14 days a very obvious yellow looking saddle on the two red ones. It wasn't very obvious to start with but now it definately looks like a yellow saddle just behind the head. I assume these are the eggs?
How long will it take for these eggs to do anything? Is there anything I can do to help the babies? When would I see them? Would the planaria or detritus worms be eating the babies? There's a good two softball size clumps of java moss, at least 5 java ferns, and a big red and purple plant in the tank. I have some other plants in my 2ft tank, and some tiny bits of driftwood. Would this help? Sorry for so many questions I guess I'm so concerned because the shrimp are so hard to find here and I really really love watching them!!!

Okay the yellow saddled are your females they should molt soon and the eggs will drop to thier back legs. Once they do that 20 to 30 days you should see some very small baby srhimp but they are easily recongized by the human eye as shrimp.

Sounds to me like they are just becoming mature. Planaria are said to eat babies if they can catch them I have never seen this and the baby shrimp are way faster so I bet all reports of them eating babies were babies that were injured or deformed and couldn't get away. Sounds to me that in a month you should have some babes swimming around.

Really nothing you can do but let nature take it's course... You have plenty of hiding spaces and sounds to me like you are doing eveything right.

This is a baby cherry just hours old....
http://www.stopactionphoto.net/Fishpics/babyshrimp1.jpg

[Gemini]

Thank you soooo much Guru!! It sounds like I just have to wait then. I think the planaria are just eating the daphnia as they are definately not little shrimp on the glass. I'm really relieved thank you!!!:19:
I didn't know that the eggs went down to the legs either I"ll keep a watch for this and then start the 30 day countdown to hopefully see some babies.

[Sounguru]

Thank you soooo much Guru!! It sounds like I just have to wait then. I think the planaria are just eating the daphnia as they are definately not little shrimp on the glass. I'm really relieved thank you!!!:19:
I didn't know that the eggs went down to the legs either I"ll keep a watch for this and then start the 30 day countdown to hopefully see some babies.

When the eggs drop it will look like she is carrying a whole bunch of yellow berries under her tail and the correct term for this is berried.....:hmm3grin2orange:

[toddnbecka]

A couple things I found when I was keeping/breeding shrimp:
Too many plants (heavily planted tank or loads of floating plants) aren't good for shrimp. The plants absorb nutrients that would otherwise feed microorganisms that shrimp feed on, particularly baby shrimp that don't have stored energy reserves (fat) between feedings.
Cherry shrimp love to eat dead leaves. I have a pond in the back yard, and would drop dead water lily leaves ito the shrimp tank. The cherry shrimp and snails would literally swarm all over the leaves. Other types of leaves were also eaten, but the dead water lily leaves are softer and loaded with microorganisms as well as the dead/decaying plant material. Just be careful you don't introduce hydra or other unwanted critters with the leaves.

[Sounguru]

A couple things I found when I was keeping/breeding shrimp:
Too many plants (heavily planted tank or loads of floating plants) aren't good for shrimp. The plants absorb nutrients that would otherwise feed microorganisms that shrimp feed on, particularly baby shrimp that don't have stored energy reserves (fat) between feedings.
Cherry shrimp love to eat dead leaves. I have a pond in the back yard, and would drop dead water lily leaves ito the shrimp tank. The cherry shrimp and snails would literally swarm all over the leaves. Other types of leaves were also eaten, but the dead water lily leaves are softer and loaded with microorganisms as well as the dead/decaying plant material. Just be careful you don't introduce hydra or other unwanted critters with the leaves.

Will agree with the leaves part to an extent, but not he heavily planted part.

There are a lot of heavily planted quite sucessful shrimp tanks out there. If plants did as you say then people would be raising shimp in bare to very low plant load tanks and this in general does not seem to be the case. I offer in reverse is the more plants the more plant matter for them to feed on plus a larger sufrace area for biofilm and microorganisims to grow on. Plus the plants removing the nutrients from the water column helps stabilize the tank which is something shrimp like, because they are sensative to high nitrate concentrations. Not to mention the plants add security for the baby shrimp and adults alike.

Now as far as leaves go any type of hardwood leaf works, just take it from an area away from roads and other places it can get chemicals on them. I use Alder mostly up here. Just collect the dead leafs that have fallen and soak them in a jar for a few days until they sink and then add to your tank. I use the same jar over and over and the same water so all the little organisims can thive and grow to culture the leaves.

Now as to water plants they could work to but the chances of adding invaders is great. That is how I got a lot of these fun and cool critters into my tank... Vals I collected in the wild. You cannot dip plants that you plan on putting in a tank for food and I would not add dipped plants to a established shrimp tank without at least a month in another tank to make sure all is well.

But as with any critter there are several schools of thought on how things should or should not be done and everyone is allowed to have their point of view. If you have any questions about what anyone says ask for clarification or do your own research and find what works best for you. Freshwater shrimp keeping in general is a still growing science heck 90% of he species of shrimp in the hobby no one really knows what species they really are and there is a lot of confusion on where they come from what their care requirements are.

So have fun record what works for you or doesn't and share that knowledge....

There is a real good just started forum I can direct you to if you have more questions on shrimp just drop me a PM.

[Gemini]

Thanks again Guru for a fabulous reply! I will keep doing as you say and will look out for the berried females!! I'm excited!!
I've sent you a PM for the forum info to.

[Sounguru]

No problem I enjoy discussing FW inverts even though I am by far a novice...

[Gemstone]

No problem I enjoy discussing FW inverts even though I am by far a novice...


Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllll..Mr Burt....

From one novice to another....you know a damn site more about them than I do........and for around where I live...the hubby and I are the so-called knowleadgeable ones...*as freshwater shrimp have not YET lost their illegal status....and we have them....but the status is going to change by the middle of next year...meaning...we shall be in the pound seats...as the lfs's will not have them in stock...etc...etc...etc... (counting the money....)...

Now...I just KNOW>..you are NOT going to bust us....are you???:hmm3grin2orange:

[Sounguru]

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllll..Mr Burt....

From one novice to another....you know a damn site more about them than I do........and for around where I live...the hubby and I are the so-called knowleadgeable ones...*as freshwater shrimp have not YET lost their illegal status....and we have them....but the status is going to change by the middle of next year...meaning...we shall be in the pound seats...as the lfs's will not have them in stock...etc...etc...etc... (counting the money....)...

Now...I just KNOW>..you are NOT going to bust us....are you???:hmm3grin2orange:

Bust you heck no.........but if I were you I would be importing like there is no tomorrow while you still can.....:hmm3grin2orange:

Oh and dump the Mr. I'm not that old, well compared to rocks anyway....:rolleyes: