Strange fish symptoms.. Please help!

[fishymommy]

I have a very bloated neon tetra that has been like so for the past 3-4 days. I stopped feeding them so it wouldn't get worse but it hasn't gone down at all. Now the fish is having slight swimming problems where it will randomly go in a vertical position (head down, tail up) and then fix itself. Also, there are two small patches along the tail, about the size of a ball point pen head, that have lost all color. Very strange in a bright neon tetra. Does anybody know what is going on and how I can help it?

TIA fishymommy

[travie]

It is either dropsy or neon tetra disease. Dropsy is curable, and neon tetra disease is not curable. Maracyn-Two ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) will help cure it if its dropsy. Neon tetra disease can spread to all other tetras except cardinal tetras. There is a small chance neons can survive NTD, but its very unlikely.

The bloat in the fish sounds like dropsy. The discoloration sounds like NTD.

[fishymommy]

does it help you diagnose if i've had similar problems with bloating before which lead to death?? not just in neons either, over the past 3-4 months i've lost four dwarf gouramis to bloating and one swordtail.

Also, will this medication harm invertibrates? I have a mystery snail that I do not intend to kill when treating my fish. Also, will it harm a frog? I have a dwarf frog in the tank as well and I don't have anywhere else to keep the frog or snail during medication

[travie]

The discoloration makes the Neon Tetra Disease the most likely culprit. Dropsy or swim bladder disease was the probably cause for your other fish to bloat then pass away.

If you go to the link, click on more information, it says that the medicine is suppose to be non-toxic to inverts.

[fishymommy]

so do i treat for dropsy or remove the fish? I don't have anywhere to put the sick fish other than this tank..

[travie]

You could treat for dropsy, and if that doesn't work to help the neon, it is most likely NTD and there won't really be anything you can do.

[fishymommy]

Ok. Do you know how the fish get NTD? I have had these tetras for almost six months so they haven't been exposed to any sick fish with NTD. Also, I haven't fed them any live food unless i cultivated it myself. Those are the ways given in the Aquaticcommunity tetra page.. are there any others that in the future I can avoid?

[travie]

It could have laid dormant in your tank. Then possibly your neon became stressed, and then received the disease. That is all speculation by me. Neons just aren't as hardy as they use to be. I will probably not get neons for my tank anymore. I use to have around 11 and now am down to 2.

[fishymommy]

yeah i had 7 and i'm down to four.. two babies dissappeared and one adult died over night out of nowhere. i wish there was some way to find healthy ones

[travie]

Pretty much have to get lucky enough to find a reliable local breeder to get healthy neons.

[fishymommy]

hmm.. ok. any tips on how to tell a healthy neon tetra stock vs an unhealthy one??

[Alfcea]

I think your fish are fine. Mine are like that often too...

The bloating should go away if you feed them some veggies such as boiled pea. The lack of colour is usually due to them being tired. At night or early in the morning, the colour goes away, but it comes back later in the day. An the fact that sometimes they are head down, tail up means that they are resting (or sleeping!). Do not worry about them that much. If you try to fix a problem that does not exist, you might end up doing more harm than good...

[tanks4thememories]

If other fish got bloated and died IMO something is going on there. It sounds like dropsy and once fish get one infection it is not uncommon for them to get secondary ones as well. As far as how they get it. Just like humans they are around these bacterium & Viri every day it is just their immune system that keeps these things from becoming infections. Also a sick fish often becomes a "Sickness factory" spewing pathogen all around the tank as the pathogen multiplies to further infect the original host. Then healthy fish can get sick because the bacterium and/or Viral load is too strong for thier normal imune system. (its like if you throw 1 marble at a tiny hole from accross the room it is very unlikley that it will go in. But if you throw 1 million marbles at one time there is a much bettewr chance that at least 1 will get through. For these reasons I strongly recommend that people have a 5 or 10 gal sick tank with aeration and a heater minimum. Place it in a quiet dark place and poof you have a hospital tank. Treating your whole tank with Maracyn or any antibiotic can wipe out your beneficial bacteria so special care should be taken when you take such measures. It is often easier just to move the sick fish to a hospital tank and treat him.

[fishymommy]

ok.. I'll just wait a few more days then to see if it gets any better. I have spirulina flakes that I'm told are good with digestion. Would those be a good supliment for vegies? There is almost always a hunk of cucumber or zucchini in there for my pleco that they can nibble on.

Also, if it doesn't go away, and i resort to treating for dropsy, is Maracyn safe for invertibrates and frogs? I have a mystery snail and frog who i don't want to be hurt/killed by treating a little neon tetra.

(btw, i live in a dorm and though i would LOVE to have a little hospital tank, i'm not allowed more than one in my dorm room)

[tanks4thememories]

ok.. I'll just wait a few more days then to see if it gets any better. I have spirulina flakes that I'm told are good with digestion. Would those be a good supliment for vegies? There is almost always a hunk of cucumber or zucchini in there for my pleco that they can nibble on.

Also, if it doesn't go away, and i resort to treating for dropsy, is Maracyn safe for invertibrates and frogs? I have a mystery snail and frog who i don't want to be hurt/killed by treating a little neon tetra.

(btw, i live in a dorm and though i would LOVE to have a little hospital tank, i'm not allowed more than one in my dorm room)

Ok well if you look up maracyn II you can see if it affects inverts , I do not think it does. As far as treating your tank it will be tricky to keep your beneficial bacteria alive (avoiding having to cycle your tank all over again) What kind of filter do you have? Please list your complete setup?

PS a 5 gallon bucket that you just happen to use for your sick fish(ahem..ahem) even though it has a heater and a air stone stuck on it...is still not a fish tank...lol...(ahem..ahem)..We never had this conversation in case the RA is listening...lol

[fishymommy]

the maracyn II is safe for fish and other ornamental organisms.. does that mean snails and frogs??

[fishymommy]

Ok.. maybe i'll hide something under my desk :P haha

[tanks4thememories]

the maracyn II is safe for fish and other ornamental organisms.. does that mean snails and frogs??

Usually it specifically says do not use with invertebrates if it is bad for them.

[tanks4thememories]

Ok.. maybe i'll hide something under my desk :P haha

Oh hi Mrs RA....ummm...uhhhh...what were we talking about? .....lol

[Alfcea]

the maracyn II is safe for fish and other ornamental organisms.. does that mean snails and frogs??
Yes, it is. Minocycline, the active ingredient of Maracyn II, is harmless to most organisms other than bacteria.

[fishymommy]

Oh hi Mrs RA....ummm...uhhhh...what were we talking about? .....lol

Haha exactly. She has fish too, just not as many and not as large a tank so I'm sure she'd be fine if she found it. I've never had her come and check down here for anything anyway :P

[fishymommy]

So just an update on my fat fishie.. still fat.. still swimming in one spot.. seems like more color might be back but then again i just woke her up so who knows.. She doesn't appreciate the bubbles in the back.. sometimes gets sucked towards them but never goes for a ride... so if there's anything else that comes to mind on what i should do, feel free to suggest :o)

[tanks4thememories]

So just an update on my fat fishie.. still fat.. still swimming in one spot.. seems like more color might be back but then again i just woke her up so who knows.. She doesn't appreciate the bubbles in the back.. sometimes gets sucked towards them but never goes for a ride... so if there's anything else that comes to mind on what i should do, feel free to suggest :o)


Like Alfcea said:

I think your fish are fine. Mine are like that often too...

The bloating should go away if you feed them some veggies such as boiled pea. The lack of colour is usually due to them being tired. At night or early in the morning, the colour goes away, but it comes back later in the day. An the fact that sometimes they are head down, tail up means that they are resting (or sleeping!). Do not worry about them that much. If you try to fix a problem that does not exist, you might end up doing more harm than good...

Sooner or later you may need to address the dropsy issue if it kills your fish on a regular basis. For now however from what Alfcea is saying (and they actually have these fish too) Give it a while and see what happens if it seems to worsen then take additional action.

[fishymommy]

Spiffy.. I'll try and find some peas at a grocery store or maybe take them from the cafeteria.. would human food peas be ok?? they don't have any seasoning on them

[abaigael04]

I use the CHEAPO frozen ones that are on sale for like $1.... Cook 'em up ( micro for about 30 seconds in water) pop off the skins and pop 'em in the tank...

[fishymommy]

ok spiffy. That will work fine then. I have to get some groceries soon anyway :o) thanks for all the tips everyone!!

[fishymommy]

Sorry to tell you but I found the fish almost dead after class this morning and had to put her out of her misery. I assume this means that it must be along the lines of dropsy if I keep losing fish like this once every few weeks or so.. I know bacteria likes to run with a pattern and all the symptoms match dropsy. If you have any tips or ideas that can help me out, please tell me. Also, if there is anything i can do to maybe avoid a mini cycle because of the maracyn II that would be awesome to know.

I really hope this works because i'm really bummed about having lost six fish to this mysterious disease :'(