trying to lower pH in a cycled tank...help

[ichimuj]

Hi, I have a 29 gallon tank with just 2 guppies and 2 oto's, some plants, and driftwood. It has been up and running for about a month. Ammonia and nitrites are 0 (yay!), but pH is 7.5. I'm trying to lower the pH so I can get some tetras (probably 5) and eventually a pair of rams (which apparently like a pH of around 6.5). I've been using the Seachem "discus buffer" and "neutral regulator" together, one scoop (that comes with the bottle) of each dissolved in tank water and slowly dripped into the tank, as suggested by the guy at my LFS. I was hoping the driftwood would also help to lower pH...any suggestions? Does this just take time? I also changed 25% of the water last weekend. I have been adding fish SLOWLY, and I'm patiently waiting to get my rams...:12:

[teach]

From my experience I havent been able to lower my pH mine runs about 7.6 and all my fish have been fine but I dont know enought about rams to tell you that they will be ok. but my tetras do just fine.

[FishDude13]

Hi, I have a 29 gallon tank with just 2 guppies and 2 oto's, some plants, and driftwood. It has been up and running for about a month. Ammonia and nitrites are 0 (yay!), but pH is 7.5. I'm trying to lower the pH so I can get some tetras (probably 5) and eventually a pair of rams (which apparently like a pH of around 6.5). I've been using the Seachem "discus buffer" and "neutral regulator" together, one scoop (that comes with the bottle) of each dissolved in tank water and slowly dripped into the tank, as suggested by the guy at my LFS. I was hoping the driftwood would also help to lower pH...any suggestions? Does this just take time? I also changed 25% of the water last weekend. I have been adding fish SLOWLY, and I'm patiently waiting to get my rams...:12:


Just FYI if you add a decreaser or increaser for your PH make sure to do it alittle at a time cause .02 could actually shock your fishes, PH is not really a big deal as long as its in the range of safe like mines safe from 7.0 and 8.4

[Gemini]

Is the PH out of your tap high? If so you'll be always battling it, you'll be better off letting the fish adapt to that PH. They are ok as long as the PH is kept stable.
i have 6 neons in a PH of 8 and they are fine.

[ichimuj]

just checked my tap...its my target pH at 6.5. I have been dissolving the buffer/neutralizer in a large tumbler of water from the tank and letting it drip slowly back in (the guy at my LFS rigged a drip with a little airline tubing onto the huge tumbler...pretty cool idea)...one tumbler full per day and it has been 3 days now. My pH was at 7.0 2 weeks ago. I wouldn't be so concerned if I wasn't interested in rams...just trying to get the pH a little lower...any other ideas? Should I do a water change?

[james481]

Do you know why your tank's pH is so high? It seems that barring outside influence (calcium or argonite substrate, bleached dead coral, certain types of stone), your pH should stay just about what your tap water comes out at (minus dissolved gasses in the water that will come out after a few hours, which can alter it a little).

[smaug]

7.5 is fine for the fish you want to keep.Unless you are willing to really dedicate to keeping it artificially that low I dont recomend it.Only when ph reaches above 7.7 or so is there any real value to adjusting it.

[MrDrums]

IMO, it is just an unnecessary hassle to mess with your ph. If you want tetras or rams, you'll do just fine with the ph you have. I have well water and my ph is about 7.8. For years I never even thought about ph, never even knew what it was really or that it mattered to the fish. I only know what it is now because I tested it once when I cycled the tank. I have no problem keeping just about any type of fish.

online sources will say that a fish likes this ph or that ph, but in reality most live in waters that vary greatly in oh due to currents, run-off, fish traveling from one area to another, etc... They are highly adaptable. Besides that, every time you do a water change, you will be changing your ph again and again. That is worse for the fish than anything else.

[ichimuj]

I don't have any coral, substrate is fluorite and small aquarium gravel. I'm going to go with the above suggestions...let it be. Sometimes we can research stuff too much. The last thing I need is to fuss over small pH changes in addition to all of the regular fussing the tank requires. Thank you everybody for all of the awesome tips...this is a wonderful forum!:19:

[james481]

This still sounds odd too me. Sorry to harp on about it, but my thinking goes like this: Your tap water is 6.5, but your tank is 7.5. Obviously we've established that your goal should be consistency in your pH. This leads me to two conclusions, something is raising your pH over time (you said it was 7.0 two weeks ago), which is an undesirable fluctuation. Further, every time you change water in the tank, you're putting 6.5 pH water in, causing further fluctuations. Perhaps you should try leaving some tap water out for a day or so, then testing to see if the pH has changed, but I doubt dissolved gasses in the water would cause a jump from 6.5 to 7.5.

[tanks4thememories]

This still sounds odd too me. Sorry to harp on about it, but my thinking goes like this: Your tap water is 6.5, but your tank is 7.5. Obviously we've established that your goal should be consistency in your pH. This leads me to two conclusions, something is raising your pH over time (you said it was 7.0 two weeks ago), which is an undesirable fluctuation. Further, every time you change water in the tank, you're putting 6.5 pH water in, causing further fluctuations. Perhaps you should try leaving some tap water out for a day or so, then testing to see if the pH has changed, but I doubt dissolved gasses in the water would cause a jump from 6.5 to 7.5.

I agree, Keep in mind moderately high or low PH is not as much of an issue as unstable PH. Fish can get used to almost any PH with in reason. What kills fish is sudden drops or increases in PH.

[CAllain]

Do you know exactly what the buffer you're adding to the water is? Some buffers may raise pH which could explain the difference.

I'd recommend leaving some tap water to sit for 24 hours, then testing pH and KH. If the KH is too low you may need some kind of buffer to avoid fluctuations, but if not then you may be able to slowly reduce the amount of buffer you're adding to the tank, and eventually just add the dechlorinated tap water.

[artemisblossom]

The ph coming out of my tap is 7.0 but after sitting overnight it goes up to 8. I was very worried about this but took all the good advice from people here and left it alone. I have 4 little butterfly rams and they are very healthy and happy. Someone said you only need to worry about dropping the ph if you are intending on breeding the rams

[james481]

What sort of test kit are you using? From the results you're posting, I'm guessing that you must be using strips (which are horribly inaccurate), because you're posting numbers that are swinging all over the place. Does your tap water come out at 6.5, or 7.0? Is your tank at 7.0, or 7.5? Frankly, I'm thinking that your pH may not actually be fluctuating, but your testing method may be faulty. Try an API liquid test kit and see what it says.

[smaug]

The real deal with trying to keep ph at the proper level for whatever fish is this.If you want them to have the best coloration,the longest life,and reach there potential size then a proper ph for the species will accomplish that.I do adjust mine and I have the routine down pat where I have no fluctuations at all.I am a rapid comparator of fish and I find that in most instances my fish look better and live longer then fish that are not kept in there ideal range.Its a personal choice to take the step to tampering with your water,I do it because it adds an extra level to the hobby for me and I see the results in my fish.

[tanks4thememories]

The real deal with trying to keep ph at the proper level for whatever fish is this.If you want them to have the best coloration,the longest life,and reach there potential size then a proper ph for the species will accomplish that.I do adjust mine and I have the routine down pat where I have no fluctuations at all.I am a rapid comparator of fish and I find that in most instances my fish look better and live longer then fish that are not kept in there ideal range.Its a personal choice to take the step to tampering with your water,I do it because it adds an extra level to the hobby for me and I see the results in my fish.

I hear ya:hmm3grin2orange:

[ichimuj]

Good idea...I'm going to let some tap water sit and test it again...I didn't realize the pH could rise this way. I think this is all kinda odd too, especially since I have never really had pH issues before...always around 7.0. I even added driftwood with the intention of slightly lowering the pH, but it hasn't helped at all. The guy at my LFS said that rams should be OK in 7.5, and I agree with Smaug...no need for extra fussing, and the last thing I want is to fiddle with the pH. BTW, I used Seachem's Discus Buffer combined with Seachem's Neutral Regulator as directed on the bottles (dissolved each in tank water and slowly dripped back into tank), but I'm going to stop that...I'm due for my weekly water change tonight, so I'll see how that goes. I won't add fish until later next week. You guys are awesome...thanks for the advice.

[ichimuj]

oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that I am using "Nutrafin pH test" (4 drops in the test tube)...no strips...going to test again now just to check...

[smaug]

That buffer you used contains phosphate.Do not be surprised to see a big algae bloom .It will go away over time and water change,I just wanted to give you a heads up.

[gm72]

Smaug has some good points, and he is one of our members who I would say is advanced in the pH area of the hobby. For the vast majority of fish keepers it is unnecessary to adjust the pH.

Smaug, I'm not saying you are wrong to do it, just that it is unnecessary for most of the rest of us.

An analogy (perhaps a not-so-good one but an analogy nevertheless) would be keeping hard to grow plants such as Madagascar Lace instead of plants like java ferns. Not wrong to do it, just not necessary for most of us.

That's a bad analogy. Never mind, I'll just go back to my cup of coffee here. :c2:

[tanks4thememories]

Smaug has some good points, and he is one of our members who I would say is advanced in the pH area of the hobby. For the vast majority of fish keepers it is unnecessary to adjust the pH.

Smaug, I'm not saying you are wrong to do it, just that it is unnecessary for most of the rest of us.

An analogy (perhaps a not-so-good one but an analogy nevertheless) would be keeping hard to grow plants such as Madagascar Lace instead of plants like java ferns. Not wrong to do it, just not necessary for most of us.

That's a bad analogy. Never mind, I'll just go back to my cup of coffee here. :c2:

With an advanced understanding of the principles at work in an aquarium a lot of the "Guides", "Best Practices" and the like can be bent and/or Broken.

Personally I avoid having to mess with PH. However some fish and some water quality in places that people live demand it.

[ichimuj]

This is the best forum...I've learned WAY more here than at any fish stores (I get different advice at each store). PH is still at 7.5 this morning, and I'm good with that. You are right, fish can adjust...I seem to be in the normal range. Too bad I bought those buffers/neutralizers, though! Could have used the $$ for a fishy! :c2:

[smaug]

This is the best forum...I've learned WAY more here than at any fish stores (I get different advice at each store). PH is still at 7.5 this morning, and I'm good with that. You are right, fish can adjust...I seem to be in the normal range. Too bad I bought those buffers/neutralizers, though! Could have used the $$ for a fishy! :c2:
live and learn.

[johnpeezy]

(I get different advice at each store)

the diffrence here is you get diffrent input presented to you all at once.

You still get diffrent advice from diffrent people here too, alot DOES overlap. And your probably dealing with lots and lots of petstore workers right here on this very forum.

There are just more brains to pick here. Your right forums are great.

[xximanoobxx]

How bout driftwood????? THat would lower ur PH and soften the water