angel pairing

[MiamiCuse]

I have three angels in one tank, and I had no idea what sexes they are.

Recently one of them laid eggs, so I now know she is female.

The other angel that was swimming with her must be the dad so that must be male right?

So that leaves the third one which always fight with the other male, so would it be safe to assume that must be a male based on that fact?

They are in different areas of the tank so everything is ok. Occasionally one angel will cross over to the other's territory, the male will always be chased out, but the female is allowed to stay, and sometimes do so.

So, does it mean this female may pair with either male?

[eellover87]

Hi I'm vivi
To be honest i don't raise angel fish, i'm more of an eel person. Anyways i know i had a similiar problem before too, when my eels had gotten to big they began to become very territorial. I looked up about the species and found out that i had two males and that they weren't getting along. Anyways~ i found two sites that might help you, i will mention that in every site that i've looked at they say that it's hard to tell the genders apart and that most of the time you'll be able to tell them apart if they pair up. So your theory might be right...Let me know how everything turns out good luck!! thumbs2:

http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=1314&cid=3780&search=

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/f/fishsex.htm

hope these sites help!
ttyl
vivi

[toddnbecka]

In most cases another male will quickly be chased away, another female less quickly. As long as there's enough space and cover that the odd fish isn't stressed (nowhere to escape the pair) it will actually help strengthen the pair-bond between the spawning pair.
IME cichlids sometimes spawn w/2 females, but usually only pair-bond with 1. The 2nd female tends to be "on her own" regarding defending/raising the spawn. The male won't see another female as a threat, but the pair-bonded female certainly won't accept her as a happy little group. Mind you, those are observations from several species of Tanganykian substrate-spawning cichlids, your mileage may vary.

[MiamiCuse]

I don't know what is going on. I thought the two of them paired off, now the female laid eggs and the two ate them all themselves. After a week the female starts to frequent the other male's space all the time. Now the other male is following the female back to the other male's territory, and the two males just had a huge fight, I mean they locked jaws for about 10 seconds, then again and again for like ten times, then the chased and peck at each other in a circular motion. The female tried to break it off, by gently pecking at both of them occasionally, and when the locked jaws she peck at the middle.

Now it seems the intruder has won, and the other male has moved into his opponent's territory. If they don't see each other, no fight, and things would have been ok, but the female is a tramp! She now swims to the loser (original mate) territory and looked at him hidden in a cave, and his now mate follows her. He is respecting his territory and didn't want to cross over, but if the female crosses, he immediately follows her, and if she gets near her original mate, and he sees him, he attacks him like he wants to kill him, even though the fight is over.

So should I isolate the original mate, or the new one following her, or leave it alone?

[Tolley]

So the one the female laid the eggs with she is still with right? you should remove the third one.

[Fishalicious]

My male did this.. he paired up with one female and they had fry...then the females in the tank had a huge fight and he went off with the other winning female...they had fry twice..then all of a sudden he returned to his original female and they have stayed paired up now for the past 6 months much to the other females dismay. I doubt very much he will now move again on to another female...they stay swimming closely together at most times and continue to spawn together.

Mine are in a 120 gallon tank and the spawning pair are not making life very nice for the other two females in the tank...they don't have much of a life actually...

Ah yes.. never a dull day with Angels :hmm3grin2orange: Once you have a definate pair I would remove the other Angel to allow it some life... I will be moving the other 2 left out Angels soon as well.

[MiamiCuse]

Yes the original mate is still there, he is the one who is now being chased by her new love, and went into hiding in a far away cave. His tail fins are now totally messed up and totally stressed. The thing is the female now helps her new love chase and peck at her ex-husband!

Confused. Why would she peck at her ex-husband?

I know I should move one of them out. I just don't know if I should move the loser ex-husband (who she had spawn with once and have eaten all her eggs while she guarded them from others - is this why she's pissed off at him?) or move the new love who she swims with now along side each other more or less, who will not let her out of his sight and the one she help pecking at her ex but they have not spawn together.

So the loser ex or the new love? Who should go? Is there alimony?

[Fishalicious]

Mine did it as well when he paired off with the other female for a little while.... I have no idea why his original female took him back after the batterings he gave her whilst breeding with the other female :c2:

[MiamiCuse]

I have removed her new love to another tank.

OMG half an hour later the female is now laying eggs.

She is moving from bottom to up on a piece of slat tile I left leaning in the tank. She is rubbing her tummy against it slowing going from bottom to top, then the next row...

the weak loser ex-husband is moving along side her, in the same motion, is he fertilizing the eggs?

I am not getting too close for fear of disturbing them.

I have the lights on, should I turn it off or would this startle them?

Should I have left her new love with her? That may be a stronger pair?

Her loser ex is still a little weak and stressed, the fries will be losers?

[Fishalicious]

If the male is going over the eggs she has just laid then yes he is fertilizing them... the ones that are not fertilized will turn white over the next few days and the parents will remove them.

What do you mean by loser fry? In territorial fish there will be one that is a little weaker in the chain...but could grow to dominate the other.... doesn't mean the fry are automatically losers... LOL

It's the same as with humans - 1 man beats up another man - doesn't mean the loser is a sad git...or any babies he may produce with a woman :hmm3grin2orange:

[MiamiCuse]

Yes I figure a loser dad may pass on loser genes to loser fry no?

well she laid a ton of eggs on the slat.

what do I do next? leave it be? she did that once before and both her and her ex ate all the eggs. seems this time she is hovering around and get close to it as it to lay more but actually nothing comes out.

should I pull the slat with eggs to another tank or leave them in there?

I have MELAFIX in the tank to treat the fin damages of the dad, will this affect the eggs?

also I have three mystery gold snails in the tank, should I remove them I wonder if they will eat the eggs if they get onto that surface.

[MiamiCuse]

OK this morning the eggs are still there. Both parents seems to be tending to the eggs. The female is swimming close to the piece of slate and guarding it. The male roams around.

But they both will get close to the slate and then do a jerky motion that I am not sure why?

I have moved the other male angel out.

The only thing I have in there now are the two angels and half a dozen small neon tetras. They are impossible to catch without stirring up the tank and I don't want to startle the angels.

Questions...

Is it ok to keep adding MELAFIX to the tank to try to help with the loser dad's torn fins, will it hurt the eggs?

Should I take the slate out and put it somewhere else?

The slate is now leaning vertically against the wall of the tank. I can flip it so it faces inwards and that will make it very hard for other predators to get to it.

Should I isolate the parents as well?

Help!

[Abbeys_Mom]

I would leave the eggs in. Angel fish fry do better with the parents (something to do with being raised makes the fry better parents?). I read somewhere that angel fish eggs raise without the parents makes them stupid parents when they are older, which is why mass bred angels that you get in chain stores spawn and then egg their eggs and fry. I would hold off on adding anything to the tank unless there is secondary signs of stress (ich, fungus, etc).

[MiamiCuse]

thanks.

two more questions.

should I take out the two big snails I have in the tank will they eat the eggs if they get on the slate?

I noticed the mom is really guarding the eggs I saw her chase off the neon tetras before just to get them out of the areas but just now it seems she is not chasing them off she wants to bite their heads off if they get close, one neon got too close she chased it and it went into a cave she went in after him twisting her body in a horizontal position to fit into the cave she never did that before. I tried to get the neons out of the tank but they were too fast and I did not want to stir up everything and uproot my plants while doing this.

will the parents eat the fry? Should I be sinking moss all over the tank?

[MiamiCuse]

hmmm...the mom is still guarding the eggs, the dad is gone, swimming about and not helping to guard.

[MiamiCuse]

I have done some online reading and decided to isolate the piece of slate with the eggs on it and see if I can get the eggs to hatch in a jar...that will prevent other fish, snails and the parents from eating them.

I half-filled up the jar with aged water, then I siphoned the tank's water to fill it up. I went to get the slate and the female went nuts, she wants to attack me, the male came too, both of them do the head bobbing...and frantically telling me to stay away.

Usually if I take out my fish net all the fish went into hiding...not so, they did not back down this time, totally undeterred. I did not have the heart to split them up, so it's staying in the big tank.