can a diatom filter be used on a new tank

[blue fin]

Would it be beneficial for me to put a diatom filter in my tank to rid myself of the excessive algae bloom I have or will I need to wait until my tank has cycled? If there is no negative effects I would like to get a filter asap and be able to see my fish. I have two barbs that have been gesturing and one seems to have a recently shortened dorsal fin. I don't want any aggressive fish in the tank but I can't see far enough into the tank to tell who the aggressor really is.

Thanks

[Lady Hobbs]

I wonder about your filtering and how well it's working. What kind of filters are you using? I also think all that cloudy water may be New Tank Syndrome from too many fish in an uncycled tank. That cloudiness will remain for a couple weeks until enough bacteria is there. I had it, as well, but I kept getting it from trying to over-clean the tank.

I would not use a diatom filter on it for now and would wait for the cycle to end.

[blue fin]

I am using a power filter, I'm not positive what model it is but it uses aquaclear 110 filters. My water isn't just cloudy, it is absolutely green and you can't see clearly into the water more than a few inches. I have filter floss, a mechanical filter, carbon, and bio filters on top, the algae owns my tank for the time being.

[Lady Hobbs]

What you should have for this size tank is a canister filter. Filters can never do all they say they can do and always has to be in conjunction with another. If it says it puts out enough for a 50 gallon tank, you can figure it "might" work on maybe a 30!

For one thing, the HOB is only getting one side of this tank. The other side is sitting in a dead area with no filters going on.

If you can not afford a canister right now, I would get two of the largest Penquin bio-wheels on the market which are probably 350's. They run about $38 each. The Emperor 400 is another good filter and has a lot of power but again, two would be needed.

Your filter is not doing the job for you and not moving that water around and putting enough circulation in the tank for you.

If money is an issue right now, at least get one of these filters right now and the other in a week or two. If money is not an issue, get yourself a good canister fiters.

This will take care of that algae.

[blue fin]

Thanks, I will check out canister filters to see if I can fit one in the budget, do you have a specific recommendation or just any reasonable canister filter?

[Lady Hobbs]

Fuval is often recommend on this site but Eheim has a better rating. I have NO canisters so can't say for myself but I usually try to go with the ratings.

Either will help you immensely! But once again, make sure you get one large enough to handle your tank. Bigger is better. Right now PetSmart has free shipping until Dec 31.
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You can also copy the price in the catolog for both these filters and go to your local PetSmart (if you have one) and most will match the price given for online shopping.

Getting these darned tanks set up is always more money than expected. The fish are the cheapest thing!

[Danny M]

Right. Canisters are the best.
But you are talking about green water, and for this I would recommend:
1. Turn off the lights, for few days. If the tank is in a lighted place, then use something to shadow it.
2. Algae thrive because of nitrates and phosphates. Do you have many fish in your tank? Do you overfeed?
3. Fast growing plants will consume the nutrients, leaving less nutrients for algae to grow. Is planted your tank?

[jeffs99dime]

i recommend large frequent water changes. and eheim is the best canister in my opinion.

[blue fin]

Ok... first, Hobbs... thanks, I'll get the eheim 2215 which is rated to 96 gallons, as to Danny M's questions, the tank is in nearly full shadow all day, today I left the lights off completetly and only let some ambient light in, yes the tank is fully stocked, no, I don't overfeed ( I think ) I try to watch and only give them what they seem very eager for twice a day, small pinch and lastly no, no live plants at this point, maybe sometime in the future.

Jeff;

my tank hasn't cycled yet, will large frequent water changes have a negative effect if I avoid vacuuming the gravel or is this acceptable, I don't mind putting in the effort to make water changes.

Thank you all for your responces.. I'll get this straightened out one day and send some decent pics...

[jeffs99dime]

Ok... first, Hobbs... thanks, I'll get the eheim 2215 which is rated to 96 gallons, as to Danny M's questions, the tank is in nearly full shadow all day, today I left the lights off completetly and only let some ambient light in, yes the tank is fully stocked, no, I don't overfeed ( I think ) I try to watch and only give them what they seem very eager for twice a day, small pinch and lastly no, no live plants at this point, maybe sometime in the future.

Jeff;

my tank hasn't cycled yet, will large frequent water changes have a negative effect if I avoid vacuuming the gravel or is this acceptable, I don't mind putting in the effort to make water changes.

Thank you all for your responces.. I'll get this straightened out one day and send some decent pics...

no. they will not have any negative effect. your beneficial bacteria live in the filter material and in the substrate in your tank. the water column in your tank is only used by the bacteria to "hitch a ride" to their "hosts," if you will. i would however hesitate to vacuume the gravel until the tank is fully cycled. large, frequent, water changes are vital during the cycle to keep your water parameters at bay. (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) i have used this method for years with no ill effects. hope this helps you out. --jeff

also, i would recommend a second filter. one single 2215 is not going to cut it. i also own a 2215. if you're going the "live plants route" i would recommend a second 2215 or a 2217.

[blue fin]

Well, I went to Petsmart, they didn't carry the Eheim, only the Fluval, I didn't print out the online price for the Fluval and left without a filter. I did come back with my complete master water testing kit and just completed the testing, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites all at zero, I will test again to be absolutely sure but I have to wonder if the tank is cycled.... anyhow, safe for the fish, time for a water change.

And for those of you who have used both is the canister really that much better than the biowheels? They have the penguin 350's listed at 43.99 but online they list out at 26 bucks...... great deal.

[jeffs99dime]

for a planted tank an external power filter creates too much current. and canisters, in my opinion are the best. --jeff

[blue fin]

Well, I guess I'll order the canister online.. Petsmart didn't have the Eheim in stock, just the Fluval and it's more expensive. Thanks for the advise. I did a 40% water change last night to clear the water a bit, I think I'll do another in a couple of days.

[kimmers318]

My whole concern here is that you say your readings are 0 for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. There is usually at least a small reading for nitrates. First I would double check that you are following the instructions properly on the testing kit.....sometimes need to do some mixing in between adding different chemicals. My next set of questions pertains to your tank set up. How long ago did you set this tank up? It is a 75 gal correct? You are certainly on the right track with increasing your filtering.....consider if you can adding some type of very fine filtering media to whatever filter you add or your existing filter. It is a good idea to kill the lights for as much time each day as possible to help. It will take some time to overcome, but you will get there. Be forewarned too that you may need to clean out your filter hoses etc once the algae is under control. I had my 65 gal go thru a pretty good algae bloom for "new tank syndrome" and found that there was alot of algae buildup slowing down my flow in the hoses of my canister filter. Mine didn't get as bad as yours though....my water was clear but I had algae constantly growing on the tank sides.

[Lady Hobbs]

Check all the online sites for prices and compare. Sometimes a $20 difference can be found for the same filter.

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Here are 3 others where I shop and many more out there. I was surprised you mentioned Fuval is more expensive. It's more expensive in the store than Eheim is online maybe but generally Fuval is a bit cheaper.

And I agree with Kimmers. It does sound as your tank has not cycled at all. It takes a month at least. If you can squeeze that budget a bit more and add some Bio-Spira, that will get things rolling much faster for you. It's refrigeratored and only sold in pet stores.

[blue fin]

I was very careful to follow the directions on the test kit, I will test again tonight to see if there is any change. I did have algae in the pickup tube for the power filter, It was obsenely difficult to get all of it out due to the 90 degree bend in the tube, I added filter floss, cleaned the primary filter housing but left the filter media together and put it back in after cleaning.
The tank has been at my house for three weeks as of tomorrow but was fully cycled before it was brought here, the substrate and filters were kept wet during transfer to lower new cycle time. Unfortunately, it was in almost full sun at my Stepfather's house and he had an algae problem there, it would have been best for me to have replaced some of the substrate, it was full of particles, I have a feeling he liked feeding the fish often.
Hobbs: thanks for the additional sites to look into, the Fluval was actually listed online for 20 dollars more than the Eheim for the same size tank. I assume that most of the people on this site recommend the Eheim? I don't want to purchase the wrong canister. Oh and by the way, Yes this is a 75 gallon tank, If I can figure out how to post pics I'll take a shot of it and post it this weekend.
Thanks all!

[blue fin]

Ran the tests again and still zero's all 3, ph is around 7.6

???

Maybe I need to give the water time to build up some more waste and see how it is reacting.

[Lady Hobbs]

Well, if you transferred this tank with the same gravel, then I betcha it has cycled then. The bacteria lives in that gravel and moving it should not set it back that much at all.

I did read that a diatom will clear up that algae but those filters run over $100 and are only used now and then. For that money, you may as well shell out a bit more and get a canister filter you can use all the time? Fuvals are used by the folks on this site more than Eheims but both are good filters. I don't believe either to be a bad choice.

I also suspect the gravel had algae from it being at your step dads and it is just continuing to grow. I think cleaning that gravel will help control it and settle it down. If not, you may have to resort to an algae remover but you also don't want to lose your nitrogen cycle.

I tested my water just hours ago and I also show 0 for nitrates. I feed 3 times a day, too, but make sure all is eaten and I do complete gravel cleaning weekly.

The best thing I can think of for now is to keep wiping that glass down and hopefully the filter can remove it.

If money is not that plentiful right now, go ahead and get the bio-wheels. I think two of the better ones should work fine. You can always get the canister later when you have more money.

The Penquin bio-wheel 350 is rated for a 75 gallon tank with gph of 350 and you mentioned you can get it for $29. The Emperor bio-wheel 400 is rated for 30-80 gallons and has a gph of 400. I can't see that much difference in them but there are two considerations for me. (I have both.) The Penquin is much quieter and it's easy to find the refills for the filter. Often the Emperor refills have to also be purchased online if not carried in stock in your stores. The Emperor is also more expensive......at least 10-12 dollars. Of the two, I like the Penquins better.

[kimmers318]

Well, sounds like cycling is not an issue...kudos to you for learning how to safely transport everything to your house! Alot of people would have ditched the gravel and started fresh, cleaning all of the decor and such which would have killed the tank! As previously stated....a new filter should help you loads, whichever one you choose look to see if it has the ability to add a polishing filter or media. My magnum 350 has a fine paper filter that I can pop in and run for an hour or so if needed to filter fine particles out of the water. Some of the other canister types have different compartments and you can pretty much stick in there whatever you want/need, so adding some really fine filtering media will help pull some of the smaller particles out of the water. There are also types of shrimp that filter algae and such out of the water because that is how they eat it....adding some might be a good idea for you. Not sure of the names, I am not real shrimpy knowledgeable, but check out petshrimp.com. Continue to kill the lights as much as possible and keep wiping the algae off the tank sides while you work on all of this. Algae blooms suck and once it gets control it will aggravate you to no end! Since you appear to be cycled do your gravel vac and water changes, watching your water parameters to make sure you don't get any spikes. If you have the space you might even want to add a small pleco. Bristlenoses stay 3-5" and both of mine are awesome algae eaters. I have to feed them regularly now, and my decor from other tanks gets dropped in with my Fugly when it needs cleaned. My 29 gal with Fugly is my decor dishwasherthumbs2: it takes her about a day to completely clean off something for me to put it back where it belongs. There are many types of small plecos, but my research showed that the bristlenoses are awesome algae machines in a small package and seldom give up eating algae as they mature like some do, so that is what I went with.

[blue fin]

I don't mind spending the money to buy a decent filter, my only dilemna is whether to get the Fluval or the Eheim. The Eheim 2215 is cheaper than the Fluval 305 and if used in conjunction with my aquaclear 110 should do the job from what everyone on AC tells me. I will have to order the Eheim, the Fluval I can go to the store and pick up whenever I want. I'm just tired of seeing green. Whichever I decide on I will purchase or order today. I think I'll do another big water change today to clear up the tank again. I'ts frustrating, can't see whats going on in the tank and as a result I couldn't tell you if there were any "problems" in the tank. Oh, by the way, I have 2 common pleco's and 3 catfish, they vacuum the gravel for me, I got a great shot of one of the catfish, if I can figure out how to post the pics I'll add the link. Kimmer and Hobbs, thanks for sticking with my on my quest to rid myself of the green water.

[jeffs99dime]

eheim is the "lamborghini" of canisters. you will be glad you have one.

[blue fin]

Alright.. I'm going to bite the bullet... Think I'll order it htis morning. I just can't stand waiting, It could take 4 days to get the filter in, ... another week or more to clense the water properly and get some good bacteria going. By the way, do any of you recommend I use some starter bacteria in the new canister when I get it or should I just let it start on it's own? I could also take some bio out of the filter I have and put it in the canister to get things started... any suggestions?

[kimmers318]

Run your new filter alongside your old filter for a week or so and see if things start clearing up. Once you are satisfied you can start removing the old filter because there should be plenty of bacteria built up in the new filter to sustain your tank. Or you can stay with 2 filters on your tank. Overfiltering is not an issue...underfiltering is.

[blue fin]

Thanks... If noise isn't an issue I'll probably leave both running. Can't hurt, and I can keep filter floss in the present filter

[Lady Hobbs]

Good for you and for your decision making process! Decisions, decisions. Enough to drive you bonkers. Altho the fuval is often recommended on this site, you can hit other sites and the Eheim is the one recommended. When I pick a canister, I will go with the Eheim simply because I like how the ratings are. 5 stars out of 5 stars on all counts does it for me.

Running both filters will never let you down. I would put the HOB on the opposite end of the tank to give better filtration on both ends.

And speaking of algae.........sheesh.........I have a bit going today myself. I messed with the pH yesterday a bit and apparently my water wanted to be where it was. :)