So I just started my first saltwater tank last night. Help??? [Archive]

mxman311

07-30-2008, 10:58 PM

Ok so I finally decided to give it a try. My current aquarium is a 29 gallon. I have the Cascade 1000 canister filter, Crushed corral that came in a bag with salt water in it saying it had all the good bio already in it, and some decor from petsmart. I used treated tap water and instant ocean salt. Filter media is just foam filters with a chemi-pure media bag. I just bought 3 assorted damsels and two crabs today to cycle the tank. Is tap water gonna be a problem? What temp should I keep the tank at? Do you use bubbles in a salt tank to add O2? Anything would help thanks.

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TowBoater

07-30-2008, 11:06 PM

Big no no! You didn't cycle your tank!! Best way to cycle is w/o fish and that is by placing even small amounts as in like 5 lbs of LR in the tank to cycle it.

unleashed

07-30-2008, 11:07 PM

How much research did you do?

What decor do you have? If it is artificial, then it is no use. You need Live Rock or dead base rock. You should not have added fish or crabs into the tanks. The fish are going to fight and 29g is too small for them. What species of crab did you add.

Bubbles in a saltwater tank are bad. You need surface agitation and current created by power heads. Tap water will be ok depending on how clean it is. It is best to use RO/DI water though as this is extremely pure.

Get rid of the foam filters and chemi-cure media bag. These will cause more problems in the long run. Also, get rid of the canister filter and buy a protein skimmer and Live Rock. These will be your filters

OscarFan

07-30-2008, 11:07 PM

You also need a powerhead...

mxman311

07-31-2008, 06:09 AM

Well it seems I didnt do enough research. Although I am making several mistakes I havent had anybody die yet. I went to water and ice today and got two 5 gallon jugs of ro water for my water change i plan on doing sunday. I am thinking if i keep up on water changes I should be ok? I plan to add 20 lbs of Fiji live rock saturday. I will buy the cured rock to try to avoid a bad cycle. The only reason I added fish already is to start the cycle. I am sure I may loose one or two but I had to cycle some how. You dont think I should use the Cascade 1000 canister filter? Why?

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mxman311

07-31-2008, 06:33 AM

What kind of lighting should I run. Cheap!! Like just a lamp replacment.

Kyle

07-31-2008, 06:37 AM

Is that a real anemone in that picture?

Gemstone

07-31-2008, 06:39 AM

ai jai jai jai jai jai jai........poor fish.

mxman311

07-31-2008, 06:47 AM

Yes. I know I shouldnt have bought anything. Too late now though. All I can do is try to save what I have messed up. I need some lighting

Fish4Fun

07-31-2008, 09:02 AM

Gday Mate , Just started myself but had the fortune of an experienced owner to assist. Pics in the gallery.. Mate if you need to add fish I was told to start with Black Mollys ( tropical fish ) as they are hardy enough to survive the Salt. Use a base of Dead rock and add some Live Rock to it and slowly shape the desired outcome ( caves , Bombys etc) have a squiz at some of the gallery set ups to gain ideas. I would remove the fish and critters you have and RTN to pet shop and ask them to hold them for you or ask for a credit. Lighting is not cheap if you want results. E BAy my friend... Halide lamps . About 300 nicker for what you desire. Stuff it reply to my blog mate.. Happy to help....Good luck.. Can anyone else suggest any more ....:14:

unleashed

07-31-2008, 09:41 AM

I would for about 40 lbs of Live Rock. With regards to the canister filter, you do not need it. All you need is a protein skimmer and live rock. The canister filter will most likely leach out nitrite/nitrate which are both not healthy for fish/inverts

If you want corals/anemones, you need AT LEAST 150 watt metal halide (or equivalent in T5HO) lighting. Get rid of the ornaments. They are just going to get covered in algae and look bad.

Also, take the fish back to the store. It is imperative in a tank that size the multiple damsels are not added together as these are highly territorial fish. If that is a real anemone, take that back as well. It will most likely be dead in a month. They need mature tanks which are at least 6 months old and have very good lighting.

You can also cycle the tank with just a piece of shrimp or mussel. This is much better than using fish to cycle. Also, I find it fairly inhumane to treat fish in such as way.

oldhead

07-31-2008, 11:26 AM

Sorry that you had to find out the hard way about all this stuff. Research is key in a hobby like this though, especially in the SW area. What I'm about to say is going to suck but will net you a healthier tank and will make you ultimately happier with your decision to go SW. Now with that being said..... tear it all down and start over, take the fish back to the store and drain the tank. Start fresh with the items that you'll need to truly establish a cycle and purchase the proper items (Live rock, powerheads,test kits, so forth and so on). You can go for a little while without a skimmer but you should get one. We'll all support you in any questions you have, this way you can get it done right. Your tank is currently on the road to disaster, it just hasn't happened yet....

Halelorf

07-31-2008, 12:19 PM

I would follow all the advice given above and I highly suggest you find the book 'The New Marine Aquarium' by Michael Paletta. It will explain why you should use live rock and certain equipment and give you a good run down on how to setup your tank. If you don't i'm afraid that tank is most certainly going to crash sometime soon.

GouramiGal

07-31-2008, 01:36 PM

Keep in mind no one here is calling you a bad person! Everyone makes mistakes and the folks here are just giving you advice on how to set things straight. And they will encourage you every step of the way, really! So keep us posted and let us know how we can help.

Tigerbarb

07-31-2008, 01:53 PM

I would for about 40 lbs of Live Rock. With regards to the canister filter, you do not need it. All you need is a protein skimmer and live rock. The canister filter will most likely leach out nitrite/nitrate which are both not healthy for fish/inverts

20 lbs of fiji live rock will be fine, you might want to add some base rock to make the tank look 'fuller'.

If you want corals/anemones, you need AT LEAST 150 watt metal halide (or equivalent in T5HO) lighting. Get rid of the ornaments. They are just going to get covered in algae and look bad.

I would agree about the ornaments. If you like them alot, I'd look for some pourous dead coral skeletons, as those might become live rock in time, and they look a little more natrual. Do not buy them new, though, as their harvest is opposed by many marine biologists for a reason.

Also, take the fish back to the store. It is imperative in a tank that size the multiple damsels are not added together as these are highly territorial fish. If that is a real anemone, take that back as well. It will most likely be dead in a month. They need mature tanks which are at least 6 months old and have very good lighting.

You could ask your lfs to hold the anemone for you, until you get the lighting you need and the established system you will have in months.

You can also cycle the tank with just a piece of shrimp or mussel. This is much better than using fish to cycle. Also, I find it fairly inhumane to treat fish in such as way.
I agree on it seeming inhumane to cycle a marine tank with fish. Mxman did add live sand, though, which should help. [/quote]

OscarFan

07-31-2008, 04:12 PM

I dont think you need to tear it down completely. Return all of the live stuff(not the sand) and get some LR and equipment mentioned above.

TowBoater

07-31-2008, 04:16 PM

Yea I agree with all the above. You just got hit to late. That is what research is for but we can lecture all we want, what's done is done. The best thing to do is start over, take all your live stock back to the LFS and ask them to keep it or take it back for store credit. Next thing to do is get some powerheads and a protein skimmer. Then get you some LR in there. I recommend Sea Life Inc. You will have hours of fun staring at the hitch hikers you receive and it will cycle your tank. While your waiting for it to cycle try and get you a light. Aqua Traders has some good deals.

oldhead

07-31-2008, 04:25 PM

I don't think that a tear down could hurt though, especially in terms of the water. I'm a fan of RO after dealing with the tap water here and just personally feel that it would be a better idea for him to start out with it as opposed to what may or may not be coming from his tap. There's quite a few things in that tank that he could do without as far as the plastic decorations and the fish anyhow. A simple tear down would just be a route that I'd be inclined to do in my personal opinion. And I'm also wondering how the salt was mixed and in what proportion to the water. Sorry if I'm seeming extreme in my reponses. I'd just perfer to see people be happy with their investment if I can help it.

mxman311

08-01-2008, 07:17 PM

I mixed the water in a 5 gallon water jug. I just measured out 2 1/2 cups instant ocean salt and used my hydrometer to get the salt level at 1.22. From now on when I do water changes I will only use RO water as everybody I talk to says thats the best way. I dont want to take the fish back to the store so I am trying to keep a eye on my ammonia levels. So far it has stayed at 0. I did however buy a small 2 pound live rock. The rock has been curred already and I plan to add more as soon as I feel like spending all that money. I also changed my light to a 50/50 bulb from coral life. Seems to have made everybody happy and cleared up the water a little as well. Some of you say that I should stop using a canister filter? Why? Would it be ok to take the media out of the filter and put small pieces of live rock in there? I dont want to have to spend more money on a power head so I figure I could just use the canister filter to move water around and put the live rock inside to act as the filter media? Will that work? Thanx for the help. I cant seem to say out of the aquarium stores these days! I will post pics of the new live rock when I get home from work today. I plane to buy another 5 pounds on the way home.

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unleashed

08-01-2008, 08:40 PM

that anemone will most likely die as your tank is still too young and lighting is not powerful enough.

The main thing with canister filters is that they can do more harm than good. Even with LR rubble inside.

Simple plan:

1. Take all livestock back
2. Get rid of all of the ornaments are replace with 30-50 lbs of live rock
3. Get rid of the canister filter and replace with a protein skimmer and powers heads. These are essential for the health of your animals
3. But all the necessary test kits (ammonia, pH, nitrite, nitrate, alkalinity and magnesium and calcium if you want corals
4. Test water daily for a week. If water is fine, add ONE small fish (preferably not a damsel as these will get very aggressive in that size tank)
5. Start to plan your future additions very carefully.
6. RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH - three things that you can never do enough of.

Also, I would invest in a refractometer as these a very accurate in telling you your salinity level

Fishguy2727

08-01-2008, 10:42 PM

I started with and suggest starting with "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums". After you have read it cover to cover go on to more advanced books.

You do not need metal halides on such a small tank. They would burn up most corals and will heat the water up severely. T5s will do the job no problem.

A protien skimmer and flow are the best options.

Anyone notice only two of those are damsels, the other is a clownfish?

If you find live rock that is truly pre-cured and tranport it home submerged it will still be good. If you transport it home just moist the way most places pack it for you it will de-cure/un-cure (?) on the way home because of the lack of water (these are aquatic animals after all).

Some tapwater is fine, you don't necessarily need to use RO. Mine has 0 phosphates and without adding any calcium, the calcium level in the tank is 450 with a very high KH.

TowBoater

08-01-2008, 11:05 PM

You act as if you don't care what we say, you are going to do it your way. We are worried about your livestock! They are not in very good of conditions right now and will most likely die. I hate to sound rude but I am just telling you the facts. I am done on trying to help you if you won't listen to us. We are trying to help.

mxman311

08-02-2008, 03:35 AM

All my livestock is going to a friends house Saturday. As for the canister I am going to take all the media out of if and just use it to move the water around the tank. I bought 3 pieces of live rock today that I am going to use to cycle the tank instead of fish. I am going to drain the tank in the morning after my friend picks up my fish. I dont have the money for a new powerhead right now so the canister will just have to do for now. I will be filling the tank with RO water this time. Here are a couple pics of the new live rock I got today. Two of them are dead corals that they said will work just like live rock. They are both all purple on the bottom. I thought they would look nice in the tank as well.

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mxman311

08-02-2008, 03:39 AM

What power head should I be looking at for this tank?

mxman311

08-02-2008, 04:01 AM

Hope he isnt dead.

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spudbuds

08-02-2008, 06:46 AM

What power head should I be looking at for this tank?
Maxi-Jets are good and reliable. Hydor Koralia's are also good. A little more expensive, but provide a more powerful dispersed flow. The amount of flow you need will be determined by the types of coral you want to keep. For now, just get one in there while the tank is cycling. The water needs to be flowing around the rock for the filtration to work best.

Good to see you are taking the advice you are getting. Take it slow and keep learning and you'll have a nice tank in the end. Keep the questions coming.

- Bill

oldhead

08-02-2008, 01:03 PM

Good choice to start over with everything, I have no doubt that you'll be happier with the tank in the long run. Just take your time and ask as many questions as you need to to get things right. And as mentioned earlier, research and then research some more. There's an old addage that most people here live by and that is, "Nothing good happens fast in a SW tank.". Keep that in mind as you go along making decisions with the tank. As far as getting rid of the canister filter right away some are for it I personally am not. Canister filters can be beneficial to the tank so long as they are kept up on. Meaning you have to make sure the media is changed regurlarly and often. I run a canister on mine and have no detectable issues with it, I test my water almost daily. And I'm sure to change the media frequently. Anyways, good luck with the set up and welcome to the forums here. We're all here to help and share with eachother so let us know how things go. :c3:

mxman311

08-02-2008, 08:09 PM

Ok so im ready to start the tear down. What do I do with the live sand? Should I leave a little water in the tank so It doesnt die? Same question for the live rock? I currently have the api 5 in one test strips, and the api ammon test kit. I will use this to monitor the cycle. Where do I want my PH levels?

cocoa_pleco

08-02-2008, 08:28 PM

you want your PH at bare minimum 7.9, and ideally 8.2ish. you can leave the live sand and rock in a bucket with a powerhead and small light.

mxman311

08-03-2008, 11:10 PM

Ok I think that I have all my cycle problems handled. My friend that came and got my fish decided to help me out. He gave me 30 pounds of live rock that is all purple and healthy that has been in a 800 gallon reef tank for 5 years. It looks really good. He also gave me 50 gallons right out of his tank and he uses only ro water. I drained my tank cleaned my cascade 1000 and removed all the filter media. except the sponge. I put all the live rock and water from his tank in mine. He also gave me my fish back!! We tasted my water today and it is perfect!!! Here are some pics of what it looks like now. What do you think?

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coachfraley

08-04-2008, 12:15 AM

Well that looks 1000 times better!

I have never tasted my water...I usually use a test kit, but whatever works for you, lol.

I still think you might need to adjust your stocking though. Those damsels might cause you trouble. I would also get a powerhead and a skimmer when you can afford them.

But overall, great job.

TowBoater

08-04-2008, 12:27 AM

Now that you got the big part out of the way, what you need now is better lighting, a protein skimmer, and a couple powerheads.

oldhead

08-04-2008, 01:25 AM

Nice going and the tank looks 100 times better IMO. Definitely look into some power heads and a skimmer. You're well on your way!!:19:

Tigerbarb

08-04-2008, 01:48 AM

That tank looks ALOT better, now! Some times, it really pays off to start again from the ground up.

greatXpectations

08-04-2008, 02:29 AM

the tank is looking a lot better! I am collecting parts to build my SW tank, and threads like these are full of good information. I surf a lot of aquatic forums and this seems to be the only one that wont bash a person, but will help them out instead.

mxman311

08-04-2008, 03:20 AM

I love how it turned out. Everybody helped me out alot! This is the most up to date picture. I just took the pic as I am writing this thread. So now is the big decision of what fish I would like to put in here? I want something that nobody has ever seen before. Something that will amaze people. I was thinking a fuzzy dwarf lion fish, blue tang, and the clown? What do you guys think? Oh ya I will be buying a red sea prizm protein skimmer this week. As for lighting I dont think I will be making any changes anytime soon.

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Halelorf

08-04-2008, 03:39 AM

Blue tangs get way too big for your setup, you would need atleast a 70gallon tank to house just one. The fuzzy lion might also eat the clown when it gets bigger so I personally wouldn't risk it. As for the skimmer most reviews i've seen of them are pretty negative. You really don't want to go low with your skimmer. The most expense with setting up a saltwater tank is mostly with liverock, lighting, and skimmers. You really get what you pay for in skimmers. I would highly recommend a AquaC Remora skimmer and i'm sure some other members can suggest many more that will be better the the prizm.

greatXpectations

08-04-2008, 06:06 AM

AquaC Remora

Thats what im saving up for. Good reviews all over the web!

unleashed

08-04-2008, 07:12 AM

mxman311

08-04-2008, 07:23 AM

good stuff mxman.

glad to see you have taken our advice. It also looks far more natural. However, with the tank being new and with the amount of livestock you have, check the parameters daily for at least a fortnight.

Also, watch that anemone daily. It probably won't live for too long due to the age of your tank and insufficient lighting.

All in all, a damn good job

Its been acting weird since I got it. Sometimes its out and others it looks like this? Havent figured out why yet. LFS says that it sleeps like that?

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unleashed

08-04-2008, 07:58 AM

that's true about them sleeping like that

However, anemones don't sleep during the day ;)

If they get any worse, chuck them as when they die, the toxins they release will kill everything in your tank

cocoa_pleco

08-04-2008, 04:59 PM

yep. like unleashed said, if he balls up for good chuck him, he will release a fully fatal toxin

mxman311

08-05-2008, 04:46 AM

yep. like unleashed said, if he balls up for good chuck him, he will release a fully fatal toxin

If he dies how do I save the rest of the fish? Water change????? Will it kill my live rock and crabs too?

cocoa_pleco

08-05-2008, 04:50 AM

If he dies how do I save the rest of the fish? Water change????? Will it kill my live rock and crabs too?

the creatures on the rock will die. if he looks tiny and extremely deflated, it would be best to remove him

TowBoater

08-05-2008, 03:51 PM

That is why I recommended higher lighting. Anemones need high lighting. Aqua traders has cheap lighting. You can get T5 at 36" (what I have on my 20gL) for 80$ plus shipping. Will make you able to keep about w/e corals and stuff you want. If you want a lionfish, go for like a fu manchu lionfish. Also if you do get one, you won't be able to keep ornamental shrimp. I run a Sea Clone protein skimmer. It is cheap but does a good job on my tank. I run a Sea Clone 100 on a 20gL.

cocoa_pleco

08-05-2008, 04:50 PM

Also if you do get one, you won't be able to keep ornamental shrimp.

really depends on the personality, ive got a coral banded and cleaner with my volitan lion and they get along

Tigerbarb

08-05-2008, 06:08 PM

spudbuds

08-05-2008, 06:47 PM

As for lighting, I think I found a cheap solution:
A metal halide screw-socket bulb: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13325&pcatid=13325

And a light fixture that can support up to 250 watts: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6513

That will save you LOTS of money, and it will work just as well as a fancy metal halide fixture. You might want to come up with something to cover the bulb, so it doesn't make contact with any water.
That fixture is for incandescent bulbs, not metal halide. You will need a ballast that matches the wattage and type of the metal halide bulb as well as a usable reflector. There are retrofit kids you can buy with all the parts to build it yourself and they can be cheaper then buying the entire fixture.

- Bill

oldhead

08-05-2008, 10:22 PM

Stay away from the Prizm skimmer, had one for 3 days and it went back. Trust me you can find better stuff to spend your money on. The Aqua C is a good skimmer from what I hear so you might look into one of those. I run an Octopus on mine you can find some good deals on those now too. I love mine and I see very few complaints on it.

mxman311

08-07-2008, 02:36 AM

Just tested ammonia levels and Im at .25 ppm. Time for a water change or should I wait and see if it drops on its own?

greatXpectations

08-07-2008, 02:52 AM

i could be wrong but i think you just need to wait it out. let nature take its course

unleashed

08-07-2008, 04:07 AM

In your sized tabk I would do a 50% water change due to radical changes over the last week

coachfraley

08-07-2008, 04:33 AM

agree with unleashed

mxman311

08-07-2008, 04:44 AM

You dont think I could run into problems changing that much water? Wont that shock the fish? I have some RO water in a 5 gallon jug that is at the same temp as my tank so I could keep the temp the same. Just seems like a big water change.
PS.
The tank today.

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In your sized tabk I would do a 50% water change due to radical changes over the last week

spudbuds

08-07-2008, 04:51 AM

The fish is already stressed by the ammonia. A water change is only going to help.

Also, you need to keep pre-mixed water available through this process. It should be mixed and aerated for at least 24 hours prior to use. Freshly mixed water can cause damage to the fish (burned gills if I remember correctly). However, I'd suggest using freshly mixed water over avoiding the water change all together.

If you are really concerned about the 50%, do a 25% now and another 25% in an hour or so. Try to make the temp and pH match the tank and you should be fine. But don't wait any longer, just get it done.

- Bill

mxman311

08-19-2008, 07:11 PM

I just got a hydor koralia #2 powerhead today. Wondering how to use it? Do I point it right at the live rock or point in down or towards the front? Also do I place it at the top of the tank or bottom? Any pics or where you placed yours?

unleashed

08-19-2008, 09:31 PM

Just have it pointed into the water column. Water circulation is what you are after.

spudbuds

08-20-2008, 05:07 AM

Agreed, just point it into the water column. It's probably not best to pound the rock with constant flow anyway if you plan on having any coral.

-Bill

mxman311

08-22-2008, 02:42 AM

Agreed, just point it into the water column. It's probably not best to pound the rock with constant flow anyway if you plan on having any coral.

-Bill
What do you mean point at the water column? Where is that?

spudbuds

08-22-2008, 03:04 AM

Point it in the middle of the tank and not directly at any rock or other stuff.

mxman311

09-02-2008, 05:26 AM

So here is a update on my tank. Everything is just fine and ballanced right now so I will see how long that last! Just got a bunch of sps corals and a bubble tip for the clowns. Here are the current pics.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7523/dsc02874nz0.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3396/dsc02875nn7.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2069/dsc02876sb8.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4702/dsc02877vo1.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

mxman311

09-02-2008, 05:27 AM

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8457/dsc02878sz6.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5313/dsc02879vz4.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4651/dsc02834tq3.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2135/dsc02882au4.jpg
Shot with DSC-N2 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N2&make=SONY) at 2008-09-01