really really bad luck.

[graceluvsplatys]

i had a neon gourami to start, my favorite fish ever, and i thought he looked lonely, all alone with platys. so, when i upgraded, i added a flame dwarf gourami, and it worked great. they seemed to really like each other. then, about 5 days later, my fave gourami passed on :(
i was super sad, but the flame became my new favorite. soon, i bought him a friend, a neon. about a week later, my flame passed on.
am i not capable of having two gouramis?
the resident gourami was the more dominant of the two in both instances, but really they got along so well.
I really dont want to lose another fish, it broke my heart the first two times. in the end, i really want a flame, a powder, and a neon.
i dont want to lose pico the third, but i love gouramis.
what should i do? is this a horrible coincedence, or whta?
during this time, my tank was spot on in its readings.

[Lady Hobbs]

Male gourami's don't go well together due to aggression. If you have a male, you should have twice as many females. Problem being that the males are the most colorful and the ones you see in the stores as they sell better. It's not easy to find the females.

[graceluvsplatys]

oh yes lady, i heard about that, but i was told by several people that dwarf gourami males are not as aggressive, and can coexist. this worked for me, as i saw no aggression. However, nnext time i get a gourami, i will surely get a female.

[C-Dub]

I can only speak from my experience with keeping gourami.
I would try 2 female dwarfs as the males tend to chase other gourami(M or F) around a bit. Still not sure myself if they are just playing or this is a territory thing, I would imagine a little of both. It's weird though because the females are never the instigators. 2 females can share the chasing better than one. It is difficult to find female dwarfs but not impossible, 2 on the same day may be tough depending where you live though. I love Gourami and when you get a good M to F ratio and healthy fish they are a lot of fun to watch.

[graceluvsplatys]

yeah i know, but i dont know why they die?! i dont think it has to do wiuth the m/f ratio.

[fishymommy]

I'm having similar trouble with my dwarf gouramis. I had four to start, first a male flame dwarf died due to what we thought was constipation, then two weeks later the female became lethargic and just randomly died, no other signs of disease, two weeks later again another flame dwarf died with a slightly swoollen body. My last normal dwarf gourami is still alive and well. I tried to buy another flame dwarf but he just died today, I had bought him on sat.. Anybody have any idea why these guys are dying?

[Ryuu]

Thats seems to be quite odd, what store do you get them from, and what are your water parameters

[graceluvsplatys]

I got them from petco and petsmart ( both surviving and dead)
those are the only paces in my area.
my water is 0 amm, 0 nit, and i just did a water change so pretty low nitrates always. my temp is 77 degrees, with moderate hardness ( PH 7.5)

[Ryuu]

Wow thats really really odd... Do you use de clorectinizer?

[graceluvsplatys]

yes, i used amquel and novaqua. its the best, even if it stinks.
however, i had something weird going on in my tank ( not only gouramies died)

[Ryuu]

Yeah hmmm, its really odd, did your water company add anything to there water recently, or did you switch WC

[graceluvsplatys]

I have no idea. i'ma teenager.

[Ryuu]

lol same here know how that goes, well, hmmmmm, um not sure sorry =( I really wished I could have helped

[fishymommy]

any idea with my fish? I got them at a nearby store that is just a single store, not like petco or petsmart. Their fish always seem very healthy. My parameters are close to cycled.. Somedays there is ammonia.. some days not. And my pH keeps changing and I don't know enough about it to understand why or what to do to keep it normal.. However, the pH is still in the gourami safe zone. None of my other fish are having this trouble but I did buy a pineapple swordtail the same day I bought the most recent dead gourami and she died a few days ago with the same symptoms of laying on the floor...

[graceluvsplatys]

yeah, all my gouramis became lethargic, then laid on the floor, then died.

[fishymommy]

YEAH!! What is going on???

[graceluvsplatys]

what did you feed yours?

[fishymommy]

Their main is/was Omega One: Natural Protein Formula.. they're flakes. Then, I have my pleco, frog, n snail that eat a mix of zucchini, shrimp pellets, and algae wafers that they sometimes would nibble on. Also, I have dried/frozen brine shrimp for treats... U?

[graceluvsplatys]

i feed a mix of flakes, bettamin, freeze dried tubifex worms, bloodworms, sinking bottom feeder pellets, the occasional siking cichlid pellet, and tadpole bites.
and, in the begginner freshwater forum, it sounds like someone else had unexplained deaths ( not gouramis tho) with great water, but they still died. others have had this too.
i told the person ( the post is under 'Why?') to do some large water changes, cause thats how i stopped my fish from dieing.

[Ryuu]

Large water changes help alot in an establshed tank, unfortunatly, they dont very much in a new one

[fishymommy]

hmm... so did u do the water changes before or after u introduced new fish? I work at a vet and though the doctor isn't specialized in fish, he says that sickness that seems to follow a pattern like our fish sounds like some sort of bacteria. He suggested somehow trying to get rid of the bacteria and large water changes would certainly cut down the population..

[graceluvsplatys]

ok, well, i do weekly anyways, but i did the change after my 2nd gourami died, and i found what to do.

[fishymommy]

Ok. I do weekly also. When u did the special change, how much did you change? Maybe I should do it also..

[graceluvsplatys]

i did about 50 percent, and then did another 20 percent a few days after. no looses since.

[fishymommy]

ok. I'll try that out and then try again. This really sucks :P

[graceluvsplatys]

OMG fordforever is having the same problem!!!

[funnyfish]

Yea Grace you did give me a tip to do a WC I did about a 30% yesterday after I talked to you all and all is well today so far... Thank you all and I am so sorry to hear the bad news you all have had also Its sad to not know why its happening..... Thank you all for your advice by the way all I have several platy fry and a few are diff sizes and they are doing well though I can not catch them....

[graceluvsplatys]

oh good, glad to hear it!
yeah those platy fry are tricky il devils!

[fishymommy]

So, any news on any breakthroughs? I havn't done the water change yet.. I think I will tomorrow morning. My existing fish are all doing fine still. How about yours grace?

[abaigael04]

Didn't someone say they were ALMOST done with a cycle? Ammonia is toxic... And for a new tank (especially one cycling WITH fish) you MUST do large water changes to keep the ammo & trIte levels as low as possible... as far as the established tanks go - I have no idea! I have had 3 corydoras die for now real reason (it is why I only have 2 now) and I have come to the conclusion they were bad fish as no other fish have died and my water is spot on. before I buy any other fish I am getting a Q tank set up, too as that might be something to look into, too if they are dying after a new fish is introduced. None of my fish can be treated with meds for Ich, so I have decided to do the right thing and start my Q tank! (which reminds me I need to get my stupid filter working to cycle it) Aso - PH constantly changing CAN be a problem - depending on WHY it is fluctuating... I would look into that, too - what is your PH from the tap? In the tank? Is there a huge difference? Is yur PH changing at night? When is it changing? How hard/soft is your water? (Water below a certain point may not hold a stable PH). That is what I would look into for now... You can buy a gh/kh test (I need one of those, too!)

[graceluvsplatys]

my tank was established, for over 6 months.

[abaigael04]

I don't believe it was you - I think this is fishymommys tank I am refering to, though I could be wrong. :) Edit - just read fishymommys ammo levels were good first... I would still look in to PH.

[fishymommy]

Yeah, I agree with you.. Its just.. they did fine for the past few months (its taken me a while to understand how to cycle a tank) and once it actually started to finish cycling.. they died? Could they have been use to ammonia and the lack of it messed them up? Or could, after months of being with it (I mean when I would test, it was off the chart) it finnally started to get to them? But then why didn't my last gourami die and why did the one I buy after it was cycled die? Ugh...

[abaigael04]

I think Lady hobbs might be right - ammo drops down trItes shoot up, didn't even think of that.... Also - when your tank was cycling (I think we all make that mistake at first!) did you do large water changes to keep the levels as low as possible??? Do you have any idea / pattern to your PH problems?

[fishymommy]

no idea on the pattern but that is why it took so long for it to cycle. I didn't understand at first that I needed to just let it go and do medium water changes once a week... once i started doing it properly though, it went by pretty quickly.. And all of the gouramies were members of my tank when I was being stupid and when I started cycling properly.. How do you find pH patterns? I dont' know much about pH other than like what the numbers mean from chemistry.. idk how/why it changes or how to control it..

[abaigael04]

Well I'm no expert on PH, either but I do know it can change at night if you have plants or anything and that is not generally harmful, but it can change from other things as well - have you tested straight from the water you are doing water changes at first? then from the tank? If they are way different then that is something to consider also. this is WAY technical but if you go to loaches.com and look up in the loach forum for a thread called TDS - this may help. I am eventually going to get one of these meters but running way short on $ right now!

[fishymommy]

No, I havn't yet but I plan to as soon as I get a chance after we figure things out or after work.. so, if it is different? how do you fix it?

[abaigael04]

I edited my above post ! LOL well there might be something in your tank that is changing it. besides that - I don't know... maybe someone with more experience can help ya out on that one! this may not be the problem at all but just a thought...

[fishymommy]

ok, sounds good