Snakeheads

[JZ1276]

I'm new here and know that these are illegal (at least here in NY they are). Does anyone own any? These used to be my favorie fish. I once had a 9" snakehead in the same tank as an electric catfish that would actually give me a shock whenever I touched it. Anyway, I actually witnessed the catfish "shocking" the snakehead one day and ever since the bottom half of it seemed to be paralyzed.
Are these illegal everywhere ?

[Fishguy2727]

I'm not sure if any federal laws were passed, I would be surprised if they none were. If you like the look of the snakeheads you may want to look in to pike cichlids.

[jeffs99dime]

snakeheads are illegal in some states because "people" let them go when the get too big into lakes and rivers. being the predators that they are, they destroy the local stocks of fish in lakes and rivers.

[Severus]

snakeheads are illegal in some states because "people" let them go when the get too big into lakes and rivers. being the predators that they are, they destroy the local stocks of fish in lakes and rivers.

And have the ability to move to a completely different water source

[JZ1276]

I kniw they are illegal ... i still want 1 (or 3). It's impossible to get them?

[jeffs99dime]

I kniw they are illegal ... i still want 1 (or 3). It's impossible to get them?

i saw that you knew they were illegal. i was posting that for the other members that may not know that.:thumb:

[Wallyfish]

snakeheads are illegal in some states because "people" let them go when the get too big into lakes and rivers. being the predators that they are, they destroy the local stocks of fish in lakes and rivers.


Actually I think they were originally kept in ponds as food by people of asian culture. Unfortunately they have the ability to travel across land to find new sources of water. ooooopppps

[Severus]

Unfortunately they have the ability to travel across land to find new sources of water. ooooopppps

That is the main reason they are illegal

[Fishguy2727]

As you can see there is usually a reason things are illegal, and getting them anyway is not going to help anyone, and in most cases it can lead to huge fines and/or jail time.

[jeffs99dime]

As you can see there is usually a reason things are illegal, and getting them anyway is not going to help anyone, and in most cases it can lead to huge fines and/or jail time.

exactly. i guess some are willing to take the risk huh?

[Severus]

It seems like he is willing. I think a snakehead is just too big and powerful to be kept in a home aquarium. It is almost inevitable that it will get out of its tank at some point

[Fishguy2727]

I have heard of them starting at one end of the tank, going full speed, and busting the other end of the tank. Not fit for home aquariums.

[jeffs99dime]

yeah. they're one of the species best not kept in the home aquarium. another one would be the malawi eyebiter.

[Fishguy2727]

Why not the Malawi Eye-Biter (Dimidiochromis compressiceps)? They hit about 10" (manageable size), the chemistry is easily replicable, granted they shoudl not be kept with their natural prey species (mbunas) so they need their own tank, or at best a tank of only utakas. But they should be an acceptable species for home aquariums when done right, unless their is some aspect to them that I am not aware of.

[jeffs99dime]

i read that they get their name because the bite the eyes out of other fish

[Fishguy2727]

They do, but only stuff like mbunas. And in captivity they are a lot less likely to need to do that when fed pellets. I have not seen them do it, or even heard of people having problems with these guys related to that.

[jeffs99dime]

okay. i take back the statement i made about the eye biter. i guess i was misinformed

[Nautilus291]

Just imagine comming back to your tank and all of your other fish are swimming around with know eyes:help: (that is if they live through it). That would be a sight to see, well unless you get sick easily.;)

[jeffs99dime]

they'd be like blind cave fish, except they would have skin pigment, unless they themselves are albinos

[JZ1276]

so does this mean that it is impossible to get snakeheads b/c no one answered my question. I don't know why everyone is saying how dangerous they are and how they do not belong in home aquariums. Hasnt anyone ever had one before? Ive had at least 5 (when they were legal) for many years and never had a problem with them jumping out of the tank, etc. And as for the poster who brought up going to jail / being fines...that's ridiculous

[kimmers318]

Going to jail or being fined isn't ridiculous if you get caught trying to keep a pet that is considered illegal in your state.....I think that was meant as fair warning that it could cost you dearly to explore the idea of keeping them now:14: . You mentioned that you had kept them before they were illegal...may I ask how long you had them, what size they reached, and what you did with them that you no longer have them? Admittedly I have NO clue about any types of snakeheads other than the ones kept in an aquarium at a store I visit....no idea what type, but these guys are HUGE. I do know though that if you try to keep a pet that is illegal, you CAN be fined or thrown into jail. When I moved to Georgia many years ago I had 2 ferrets, didn't know they were illegal. When I found out I was told I could be fined, jailed, or both. I had no desire to risk it so the next trip back to Ohio we brought them back with us and gave them away. Unfortunately, most laws are made because people do stuff like letting pets go into the wild that is not their natural habitat and they end up creating chaos.

[Fishguy2727]

It is by no means rediculous. There are fines and jailtime given to illegal pets. For example: Federal law states that it is illegal to sell turtles under 4" as pets. The fine is $10,000 and I am not sure how bad the jail time is. There have been people who decide to sell them anyways at reptile expos. They forgot to put out the sign saying 'for scientific or educational purposes only'. Because of that they have gotten that $10,000 fine. With species like snakeheads that can have horendous environmental consequences (something not taken lightly these days) I would not even risk it. This is besides the fact that almost no one can actually deal with these things full grown. I would be very surprised if there is no federal regulation against these, and I would be very surprised if it was not a very bad penalty. It is not worth the risk to your future or the environment, but I guess that is really your decision. They are in the river systems near me, and breeding, destroying the local ecology. They hit three feet. Can you actually deal with a 3 foot carnivorous fish?

[Severus]

If you are REALLY that serious about getting a snakehead you should consult your local or state government (fish and game) and figure things out. I just think it is a big mistake. But that is just me

[Fishguy2727]

It's not just you.

[jeffs99dime]

that makes four of us!! it just isn't right. it is sort of like keeping a lion in your house and then one day he escapes and starts killing every thing. just my opinion.

[Severus]

i figured everyone would have the same opinion.

[jeffs99dime]

okay. well i guess i didn't have to say it's my opinion since i'm the one that typed it. lol

[Wallyfish]

Most people would be embarrassed to do jail time for a fish. Since there really isn't a good market for illegal pet fish as it is not worth the penalty, I'd have to say you're best way to get a snakehead would be by taking a trip south and trapping or fishing one out of the potomac river and quickly transporting it back to your home. You would need a relatively large vehicle for that. :1:

[JZ1276]

Going to jail or being fined isn't ridiculous if you get caught trying to keep a pet that is considered illegal in your state.....I think that was meant as fair warning that it could cost you dearly to explore the idea of keeping them now:14: . You mentioned that you had kept them before they were illegal...may I ask how long you had them, what size they reached, and what you did with them that you no longer have them? Admittedly I have NO clue about any types of snakeheads other than the ones kept in an aquarium at a store I visit....no idea what type, but these guys are HUGE. I do know though that if you try to keep a pet that is illegal, you CAN be fined or thrown into jail. When I moved to Georgia many years ago I had 2 ferrets, didn't know they were illegal. When I found out I was told I could be fined, jailed, or both. I had no desire to risk it so the next trip back to Ohio we brought them back with us and gave them away. Unfortunately, most laws are made because people do stuff like letting pets go into the wild that is not their natural habitat and they end up creating chaos.

The snakeheads that I've had years ago just ended up dying eventually. The one that grew the most got up to about 7 inches long. That one actually ended up dying b/c my electric catfish (name?) shocked it. After that it swam around the tank, the last half of it paralyzed, and ended up dying. I also have a friend that had one that grew to about 6 inches. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that someone could get in trouble by the law for owning one...but cmon now what are the chances of law enforcement finding out?

[JZ1276]

It is by no means rediculous. There are fines and jailtime given to illegal pets. For example: Federal law states that it is illegal to sell turtles under 4" as pets. The fine is $10,000 and I am not sure how bad the jail time is. There have been people who decide to sell them anyways at reptile expos. They forgot to put out the sign saying 'for scientific or educational purposes only'. Because of that they have gotten that $10,000 fine. With species like snakeheads that can have horendous environmental consequences (something not taken lightly these days) I would not even risk it. This is besides the fact that almost no one can actually deal with these things full grown. I would be very surprised if there is no federal regulation against these, and I would be very surprised if it was not a very bad penalty. It is not worth the risk to your future or the environment, but I guess that is really your decision. They are in the river systems near me, and breeding, destroying the local ecology. They hit three feet. Can you actually deal with a 3 foot carnivorous fish?

NO... and I would NOt want to deal with a 3ft snakehead either. However there is no way one can grow anywhere near that size keeping it in a tank under 55 gallons

[JZ1276]

that makes four of us!! it just isn't right. it is sort of like keeping a lion in your house and then one day he escapes and starts killing every thing. just my opinion.


Now how can you compare a lion with a snakhead?

[kimmers318]

Why do you think a snakehead couldn't grow to that size in a 55 gal tank? Would you have stopped growing if your mom had kept you locked in a small cabinet but continued to feed you? The snakeheads I spoke of at the petshop near me are in maybe a 6ft tank....by no means large enough for them and you can see they have problems turning around, but it hasn't stopped them from growing. The store has to keep a large clay turtle decoration on the small lid that they open to feed because these guys HAVE bumped it open. They also stand back and throw feeder fish in because they can jump so high to get the food they are afraid they will get their hands! They are not in an ideal tank for them by far but I have no control over what they do with their tanks obviously. I have to go to Akron today to take my dad to the oncologist so I will take my camera and stop in and get pics of them if the shop says it is okay so you can see what these monsters look like if they grow to 3 ft! Honestly, I wouldn't risk it. Granted, the police are not likely to come knocking on your door about the fish in your tank, unless maybe a neighbor gets peeved at you and turns you in, but if you start trying to order something like that from somewhere and get told they are illegal it might raise a red flag to a law abiding supplier who WOULD say something to the authorities. With all of the interest lately in our environment and the fact that people still continue to release animals in areas not native to them, then said animals destroy the environment that isn't suited to them, I have heard alot of concern and follow ups about authorities trying to control these issues so I can foresee that they WILL start busting people. Look at how stray dogs/cats used to be handled.....now you see animal control police in some cities who can and will prosecute people that don't properly care for or keep animals they aren't licensed to keep. I don't think I would risk it.

[Fishguy2727]

Fish do not just grow to the size of their tank. IF their growth is slowed, it is extremely unhealthy for the fish and considered animal cruelty to many. Fish outgrow tanks all the time. And I guess maybe you're right, it may not outgrow the tank if it ends up like your other ones. Did you notice I said they have been known to bust tanks? So once it does ougrow the tank that means you end up with a 15" monster in a 55, he busts it, and you have to explain to the landlord or whoever what broke your tank and why there are no fish in site because you knew you had to get rid of it fast.

THIS IS NOT A SPECIES OF FISH FOR HOME AQUARIUMS.

[Severus]

Look at how stray dogs/cats used to be handled.....now you see animal control police in some cities who can and will prosecute people that don't properly care for or keep animals they aren't licensed to keep. I don't think I would risk it.

I think that is how it should be. If someone doesnt have the finances/ability/time/ or just outright neglects an animal they shouldnt have it. The same goes for a snakehead, a fish that should have stayed in its natural habitat.

[minabird]

JZ1276-


Are these illegal everywhere ?

I know several states have banned importing snakeheads. Some have even banned owning them.
In Maryland, “a person may not import, transport, or introduce into the State any live fish or viable eggs of snakehead fish of the Family Channidae, … [lists specific species].” (Code of Maryland Regulations, Title 8, Subtitle 2, Ch. 19, .06)

It is considered a misdemeanor plus fines of $500 and up to $1500 per fish for the first violation. Subsequent violations, fined $1000 and/or imprisonment up to 1 year, and additionally fined $2500 per fish. (Maryland from the Annotated Code of Maryland, Natural Resources Article, Title 4 Fish and Fisheries, Subtitle 12. Penalties and Fines, Searches, Seizures and Forfeitures. http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_statutes.exe?gnr&4-1201 ).


I'm not sure if any federal laws were passed, I would be surprised if they none were.
In Jan., 2005, “felony violations of unlawful smuggling of wildlife and unlawful commercialization of smuggled wildlife” were handed down to a California man who was smuggling snakeheads. Here’s the article: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/news05/05009.html
So, in answer to your question, there are broad catch-all laws for illegal wildlife. See below.


I kniw they are illegal ... i still want 1 (or 3). It's impossible to get them?
“In October 2002, Snakeheads were added by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to the List of Injurious Wildlife Species (http://www.fws.gov/contaminants/otherdocuments/injuriouswildlifelist.htm). All 28 species of the Snakehead family were included, without any exceptions. By doing this, they effectively banned all importation into or transportation between the continental United States , the District of Columbia , Hawaii , the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico , or any territory or possession of the United States . Those who wish to import live Snakehead fishes or viable eggs today have to apply for a certain permit, and permits are only given for scientific, medical, educational, or zoological purposes. Federal agencies can still import without a permit, but only exclusively for their own use. If you already possess a living Snakehead or viable eggs inside the U.S. , any interstate transportation of them will also require a permit.” (http://www.snakehead.info/environment.php)



NO... and I would NOt want to deal with a 3ft snakehead either. However there is no way one can grow anywhere near that size keeping it in a tank under 55 gallons
“The giant snakehead, or Channa micropeltes, is commonly known as the red or redline snakehead at the juvenile stage of life and is called a giant snakehead as an adult. This species is native to Asia, and sold in the aquarium trade, although it is not recommended for most private collectors since it can grow up to 40 inches.” (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/dnrnews/pressrelease2002/091002.html)

“A Maryland man brought two of the sharp-toothed, torpedo-shaped snakeheads home from New York to keep as pets. That he did, until the exotic predators outgrew his home aquarium and he dumped them into the Crofton pond, officials said.” (Baltimore Sun, July 12, 2002) (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/outdoors/bal-te.md.snakehead12jul12,0,4126824.story?coll=bal-sports-outdoors)


Here’s a link about the snakehead with additional links to other resources .

http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/aquatics/snakehead.shtml


Before you buy another snakehead, you may want to check your state’s laws concerning them. You may also want to look into the laws where you purchase the fish. Even if it is legal to import/own snakeheads in your state or where you are purchasing them from, if the fish crosses state lines into a state where they are banned, it may be considered a federal offense.

[jeffs99dime]

Now how can you compare a lion with a snakhead?

i wasn't "comparing" a lion to a snakehead! i was merely stating a point. thanks

[JZ1276]

I understand all of this that everyone is telling me ... that they are illegal, can be dangerous, etc. I dont care. Ive never had a problem with one before and if I can get my hands on one i will definitely buy it. I came here asking if anyone knows where I can get one originally, still, no one has told me.

[Fishguy2727]

You can't and hopefully won't be given the opportunity.

You have not had problems because you have not had a REAL snakehead, you have had babies. Most hard to deal with animals start out as easily manageable babies. There is a huge difference between a little 8" eating machine with an additude and a 2-3' tankbuster.

If you do get them please post pics and post your address.

[jeffs99dime]

i'm pretty sure that no one here is going to give you an answer about where to purchase snakeheads because they are illegal. things that are illegal are not condoned here

[Wallyfish]

I understand all of this that everyone is telling me ... that they are illegal, can be dangerous, etc. I dont care. Ive never had a problem with one before and if I can get my hands on one i will definitely buy it. I came here asking if anyone knows where I can get one originally, still, no one has told me.

I told you. :1:

I think this whole thread is :spam:

[jman]

I'm not sure if any federal laws were passed, I would be surprised if they none were. If you like the look of the snakeheads you may want to look in to pike cichlids.

if you need info. because you want to try them i posted some under the links forum.

[kimmers318]

Here are some pics of the snakeheads I mentioned. They are in a 180 gal tank, which in my opinion is way too small, they are about 1/2 as long as the tank, and as you can see....being in too small of a tank certainly didn't stop these guys from growing too big! Admittedly, they are impressive looking fish, but they should not be in a home aquarium.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/kimmers318/100_2241.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/kimmers318/100_2242.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/kimmers318/100_2236.jpg

And, to answer your question about where to obtain them...sorry, I have no clue!

[JZ1276]

Here are some pics of the snakeheads I mentioned. They are in a 180 gal tank, which in my opinion is way too small, they are about 1/2 as long as the tank, and as you can see....being in too small of a tank certainly didn't stop these guys from growing too big! Admittedly, they are impressive looking fish, but they should not be in a home aquarium.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/kimmers318/100_2241.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/kimmers318/100_2242.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h216/kimmers318/100_2236.jpg

And, to answer your question about where to obtain them...sorry, I have no clue!

ok those fish are awesome how could you NOT want to have one in your aquarium?

[JZ1276]

I told you. :1:

I think this whole thread is :spam:
you think this thread is spam? wtf are you talking about

[Fishguy2727]

They are a very interesting fish, but then common sense and reality should click in and you should realize, "Wait, I can't really deal with 3 foot tankbusters that are illegal." There are lots of fish that I would love to have: arowanas, arapaimas, huge fw rays, S.A. redtail cats, tiger shovelnose, peacock bass, the huge species of bichirs, etc. But all of these are unsuitable for the home aquarium, hence you do not see me running out and buying any of these.

Why don't you get the tank first. They need, what you guys think, 3'x9'x2' absolute minimum? That sounds right for a minimum. Get that, then we will talk about where you can get them.

[Wallyfish]

you think this thread is spam? wtf are you talking about

I'm talking about the posts you've made here are about buying illegal fish, and not caring about the consequences or impact just because they are cool, keeping fish in poor cramped living conditions and fish that are incompatable like the electric eel that you paired with the baby snakehead which eventually killed it. You're either not interested in the welfare of your fish or you're trolling the forum. I think the latter is more likely.

[JZ1276]

I'm talking about the posts you've made here are about buying illegal fish, and not caring about the consequences or impact just because they are cool, keeping fish in poor cramped living conditions and fish that are incompatable like the electric eel that you paired with the baby snakehead which eventually killed it. You're either not interested in the welfare of your fish or you're trolling the forum. I think the latter is more likely.

I think youre a douche. I've had aquariums for the last 15 years. At the time I did not know you couldnt pair a snakehead (BTW, wasnt a baby....it was years old and between 7-8 inches) with an elec catfish (not an eel, pay attention). Anyway, I m curious as to how many people here actually owned snakehads and never had a problem with them before they were illegal. Probably mostly everyone. Now that they are illegal , they are suddenly dangerous and everyone says to stay away from them.

[Fishguy2727]

Actually I have never owned them because I had heard how much of a problem they were, and that was well before they were illegal. Again, you have not even had good experiences with them because you killed them as babies (and although they were not new borns, 7" is a baby to a 3' adult).

[jeffs99dime]

I think youre a douche. I've had aquariums for the last 15 years. At the time I did not know you couldnt pair a snakehead (BTW, wasnt a baby....it was years old and between 7-8 inches) with an elec catfish (not an eel, pay attention). Anyway, I m curious as to how many people here actually owned snakehads and never had a problem with them before they were illegal. Probably mostly everyone. Now that they are illegal , they are suddenly dangerous and everyone says to stay away from them.

is name calling really neccessary? no one here is a douche

[William]

Please everyone. Try to keep from calling eachother names. Some time people has different opinions and a discussion can get heated but lets try to be tolerant and forgiving towards eachother none the less. it will make the forum a nice place for everyone.

[jman]

Chill out guys it is not that serious opinions should not go that far this forum is for friends to help one another not put each other down. It's all cool we all make mistakes the real problem here is that we don't want to realize who is really getting hurt hear... the fish!

[JZ1276]

is name calling really neccessary? no one here is a douche

Yeah it's necessary this guy called me a troll in another thread

[JZ1276]

Please everyone. Try to keep from calling eachother names. Some time people has different opinions and a discussion can get heated but lets try to be tolerant and forgiving towards eachother none the less. it will make the forum a nice place for everyone.
agreed ...

[jeffs99dime]

Yeah it's necessary this guy called me a troll in another thread

well he's wrong and so are you. disputes should be taken care of through private messaging or email. this reflects negatively on the rest of the members, and the forum itself. there could be children on the forum too- how's that look to them if they see a bunch of adults acting "the fool"--jeff
someone please correct me if i'm wrong. this is nothing personal, i'm just stating the right way to conduct "business" when on the forum.thumbs2:

[Severus]

Your doing a fine job jeff. lol

[jeffs99dime]

thank you !!!