Finally SW, a 29

[Fishguy2727]

I had enough extra cash this week to buy a bucket of salt and the hydrometer, so the 29 my pair of discus were in (moved them to the 40high) will be saltwater. Not enough money to go all out with tons of live rock and fancy equipment, so I am using the lace rock I have and getting some base live rock and a couple nice pieces of live rock. Black and white sand, black background. I have not decided on the filtration yet, so far I just have a 300gph powerhead going. I would live to keep it pretty natural (lots of flow and let the live rock do its job, as well as some filter feeders like fanworms and hopefully some sponges).

For the livestock I think I will do a pair of green clown gobies, a pair of percula clowns, and over time slowly add carefully selected inverts.

What do you guys think?

Pics will come as things develop.

[gem]

You need to be careful with that lace rock. It will likely leach phosphates. I wouldn't recommend putting anything other than live rock or dead reef rock in.

[Fishguy2727]

Where did you hear about that? I have not heard that before.

[cocoa_pleco]

i too have heard that lace rock will leach phosphates

if you dont mind getting stuff shipped to you, theres a ebay seller that sells 80lbs of dead rock for $80, would be perfect

[oldhead]

Check Craigs list for rock too. I see alot of people on there selling it from time to time here. And their prices are normally much better than any LFS. Good luck!

[NickFish]

I don't have any advice to give other than what has already be mentioned.

So, good luck! Are you going to make a full tank diary or just give a couple pics now and then?

[Fishguy2727]

Probably just period updates.

My cousin may have some stuff to help me (live rock from his neglected 90 reef, rock I gave him YEARS ago).

I will be shopping around to see what I can get nice and cheap.

[Kuli_Loach]

I use lace rock in my s/w and it is fine. It all depends on the quality you have of it. By the way, welcome to the dark side! With this maybe we can get along and we can start over so no more fighting. I can help you out quite a bit on this. Believe me, it can get VERY expensive if you ain't careful. What type of powerhead are you running? What type of corals do you want? Are you going to run a skimmer? Are you going to have a sump or fuge? Afterset-up we wanna know your pH and such. We want to know all about your tank and the color underwear you are wearing!-sarcasm:thumb:

[Fishguy2727]

It is the same powerhead I had on the goldfish tank, Powerhead 802 on the label, I can't remember what brand. I have been reading about it like crazy and talking to everyone I can, so I don't really need much help. For now I think I am going to go more natural, flow and live rock. I may add either a HOB or canister.

Not planning a skimmer or anything for now.

I am not worried about getting into corals. If all goes well that will be a little down the road still.

I am using Instant Ocean Salt and Proper pH 8.2.

[NickFish]

It is the same powerhead I had on the goldfish tank, Powerhead 802 on the label, I can't remember what brand. I have been reading about it like crazy and talking to everyone I can, so I don't really need much help. For now I think I am going to go more natural, flow and live rock. I may add either a HOB or canister.

Not planning a skimmer or anything for now.

I am not worried about getting into corals. If all goes well that will be a little down the road still.

I am using Instant Ocean Salt and Proper pH 8.2.

IO salt is probably one of the best mixes you can get for a FOWLR, so good choice there. However if you are planning on getting corals later on I recommend switching to Red Sea or reef crystals. Just more nutrients and trace elements in there.

And the 802 would be the old AC 70 powerheads if I'm not mistaken. That's about 400gph of flow. I'd definitely put more on there.

Maybe a Koralia 2, or a strong HOB or canister like you mentioned. The HOB or canister is probably a nessescity if you aren't putting in a sump. You need some place to mix new top-off and water change water in.

[Fishguy2727]

I just don't have any questions. At this point all I can do is get more experience.

I am not doing reef, at least not at this point. With over 10x turnover per hour and probably more filtration on the way I don't think it is an issue unless I do get into some corals.

[Kuli_Loach]

With less flow you are looking at getting more problems such as red slime (cyano) and your fish will have less O2 in the water. For a FOWLR you need a wave maker (powerhead turned upwards) and then about 2 in the tank for a current.

[NickFish]

You do need some help here and there, you can learn a lot from experience but I find it hard to believe you've learned SW overnight.

You will want another powerhead of some kind, preferably a set-up like Prototype mentioned. 10X isn't enough in my opinion, unless that 10X is coming from a very widespread, dynamic wave maker. Your powerhead wouldn't do this. You are not just looking for the total flow here.

You will need more flow than that, especially if you don't have a skimmer. You will need something pointed at the surface our the top of your tank is going to look like pond sludge.

[Fishguy2727]

I have decided the best thing would be to just move the AquaClear 110 over from the 40breeder. This way I get the filtration, flow, surface agitation, etc. I can add something else to the 40breeder.

Without corals a wavemaker is not necessary, and even with corals not all need one. Powerheads and more flow, yes, but not a wavemaker.

I have not learned it over night. I had one a long time ago so I know what is needed. I have been researching this for years now and have been close many times, but other necessary expenses always came up (car repairs, etc.). I am not turning down any advice, just letting people know I will not be asking tons of questions. I have talked to tons of local people including my cousin who owns a business setting up and maintaining tanks, including marine and reefs. He even asks me about some things sometimes because I do know what I am talking about. I would be running the marine system at work if the owner would just get it running (I can't because it has to be HIS way).

I am going to try what seems to be the best option based on the research I have done. Other things work, but I just have to figure out what works best.

A skimmer may come down the road, but I am hoping to keep the bioload nice and small, with a lot of it being maintenance and cleaning species.

[Fishguy2727]

Moved the AquaClear 110 over. Definitely no lack of flow now. Neither of the species planned are amazing swimmers, may have to cut flow later if it is too stressful for them.

[gem]

It is the same powerhead I had on the goldfish tank, Powerhead 802 on the label, I can't remember what brand. I have been reading about it like crazy and talking to everyone I can, so I don't really need much help. For now I think I am going to go more natural, flow and live rock. I may add either a HOB or canister.

Not planning a skimmer or anything for now.

I am not worried about getting into corals. If all goes well that will be a little down the road still.

I am using Instant Ocean Salt and Proper pH 8.2.

If you're not going to have corals....phosphates aren't that much to worry about. Even with softies, low readings of phosphates aren't too big a deal. But if You go with SPs you want absolute 0 phos. Lace rock, especially if it's already been used in FW will leach phos. It's not a matter of heard so much as a matter of experience. For a FOWLR tank though....go ahead and use the lace rock in addition to the LR and base rock. You can always run Phosban in you filter. Once the tank has been running for quite a while....(6 mos to a year) if you decide to go with corals, the phos in the lace rock really won't be so much an issue.
You may want to up the flow though. Maybe add one more powerhead. A maxjet 1200 (fairly inexpensive) would be ok for a FOWLR. If you ever do go with corals....I highly recommend Koralia PH's. Much better flow disbursement. There are a couple reasons for ample flow and no dead spots in the tank. One it oxegenation. The other is filtration. Without the flow, the lr can't properly filter the water. Another is to avoid pest algaes...etc...such as cyano. Cyano and dinoflagellates (sp?) tend to thrive in low flow areas and dead spots. they also thrive on high phos. levels. (yes...again....not heard....experienced.) :ezpi_wink1:

[Fishguy2727]

Let me re-word this so it is clear. I am not a brand new newbie at this. I will not be on here asking tons of questions about every little thing the way some would who just started a sw tank. I have minimal experience and a lot of research. So you will see very few questions out of me. I just wanted to let you guys know because it seemed like you were ready for a ton of posts with all sorts of questions. Thanks for the offer of tons of help, but I probably will just not be needing too much of it. I am not stuck up about this or anything, it is just that I have asked all the questions before and gotten all the answers. After years of research and talking with many experienced hobbyists, I am at the point where it is all the same information over and over and I just have to figure out which of it is the best, which needs to be done with experience. I did not mean to rudely turn down any advice, just trying to say I am not full of questions.

If you have some experience to share, do so. That is what a forum is all about. If you want to hold it against me because I worded previous posts so the message was not clear or came across wrong that is your choice. But I would prefer it if the information kept flowing and no one make or take anything personally.

gem:
You think a 300gph powerhead and an AquaClear 110 (500gph) is not enough for a 29?

"Lace rock, especially if it's already been used in FW will leach phos."
Why would the lace rock having been in fw make it more likely to leach phosphates? Wouldn't it have leached some if not most while it was in fw?

Anyone have or read the book on Algaes? I can't remember the publisher but I see it a lot (and it doesn't seem like there are a ton of books on algaes). Is it worth a read and helpful or just A LOT of specific information on different algaes that does not really help much in actually dealing with a marine tank?

[NickFish]

I never said wavemakers were nessesary. I said if you are only going to have 10X flow you better have it coming from something dynamic and spread out, not a cheap AC powerhead. 800gph is better, and the HOB should help with oxygenation a WCs.

[GynMonkey1044]

Another is to avoid pest algaes...etc...such as cyano. Cyano and dinoflagellates (sp?) tend to thrive in low flow areas and dead spots. they also thrive on high phos. levels. (yes...again....not heard....experienced.) :ezpi_wink1:[/QUOTE]


Just wanted to make it clear that cyano is not an algae it is a bacteria.

[Fishguy2727]

I am not trying to be confrontational, argumentative, etc. Please ignore past impressions of me and help me start new. PM if you see me post something you think should be different. All I was trying to say here is I am out of the 'just started and have millions of questions!!!' phase and am now in the 'finalizing the plan and getting started' phase.



Sorry NickFish, I misread it.

I think I have more than enough flow now. The AquaClear 110 definitely has the water moving almost too much.

[Lady Hobbs]

I have edited and deleted in this thread a couple posts I found rather harsh and unneccessary.