Need help diagnosing fish!

[fishymommy]

Hello, first.. here are my stats...
Ammonia level = 0-.25ppm
Nitrites level = .25ppm
Nitrates level = 10-20ppm
Water hardness = ? don't know how to test this
Water pH = had been 7.0 for a while and rose to 7.6 over the last couple of weeks
Volume of tank = 20 Long
Size of tank = 12.5 X 30.. i think
Filtration system = External filter with filter cartrige/carbon and sponge
Temperature = 75-80 F
Age of tank setup = cycled within the last month
If a new tank when was it cycled and how? = about a month the lvls have read normal
Number and amount of water changes weekly = one a week with abt 25% water change
Age of fish <if known> = sick fish is less than one year.. bought early this year
Any recent changes = other fish have acted same and died

Ok, I have two remaining dwarf gouramis. I originally had four but one died due to constipation and after he died, my only female became very inactive only eating once in a while and resorted to swimming low around one of my plants mainly hidden. I know some of the time it was due to her hiding from the other males that would pester her when she came out but they had always bugged her and she never hid like that. A week or two later, she died during the night. That was about a week ago today and another of my dwarf gourami's is acting strange like that. He is a bigger male dwarf flame gourami who usually dances/fights with my other male. They never have done any harm to each other, they usually just flap their fins at each other while spinning in circles and eventually resort to just chasing each other. However, now, the sick fish in question won't engage when his friend comes to dance and has resorted to moving just enough to stay in a general area near the top and in the back left corner of my tank. He hasn't eaten for two days but doesn't look at all constipated like my last male. He doesn't have any noticeable wounds or fungus or worms or anything.. he just kinda slowly hovers in the same spot.

Is there anything that I can do that you can think of that may help me?

[Fishalicious]

I hate to say it but your tank is not cycled yet as you are showing ammonia & nitrites these should both read 0...or you stocked your tank too quickly with too many fish. I suspect stress from the quarrels and on top of it the ammonia & nitrites further weakening the fish

Do 50% waterchanges everyday until they both read 0 to help the fish

[james481]

Hmm, it's hard to say for sure from your description. Do the fish appear to be breathing heavily? If so, I would say it's probably nitrite poisoning. You should try and figure out why you have ammonia and nitrite in the water, as these should always be 0 in a properly cycled and maintained tank. Long term exposure to these substances can leave your fish susceptible to diseases and infection, if it doesn't just kill them immediately.

However, after looking again, I would recommend that you also try and figure out why your pH is rising (have you tried testing your tap water?), and mess with your heater / home thermostat until you can get the temperature to stay constant within a degree. Most fish can get used to a large variety of water conditions, but sudden changes in the water can overstress and kill them.

[DragonGoby]

Sorry for your loss, it's always hard...

I've another question: do they have other notable thing? change in the shape of the body, scale lifted (they look like pine cone)? coloration change? it's important because it can help the diagnosis.

To me it seems like a case of bloating. If it's the case you can try epsom salt or giving them peas or stop feeding them, here's a limk to another thread on this forum :
bloated ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.])

One problem is that you still have ammonia and nitrites in your tank. And if so, your tank is not cycle... And it's certainly stressing them... So you need to lower your levels of ammonia and nitrites... You can do other water change to help...

Hope it gives you some help. Keep us informed and good luck.

[Billythefish]

I hate to say it but your tank is not cycled yet as you are showing ammonia & nitrites these should both read 0...or you stocked your tank too quickly with too many fish. I suspect stress from the quarrels and on top of it the ammonia & nitrites further weakening the fish

Do 50% waterchanges everyday until they both read 0 to help the fish
I would agree with what jess has posted, i'd also add some tetra nitrate minus to help speed up your good bactira growth

[fishymommy]

Ok. I've had my tank since February of this year and they've all been in there since the beginning. I had the four gourami's but now only two, I have still three neon tetras, four rasboras, a dwarf frog, pleco, and recently bought a gold mystery snail. I can test again quick to find out what my lvls are, those were from yesterday. He doesn't have any standing fins to suggest dropsy and no worms. As for color, idk if I'm just being a paranoid fish keeper but it seems that as I've had my gourami's for longer, where they should be silver has begun to look almost dirty.. Its not shiny like it was when I bought them. Now it looks like they have just a lil bit of dirt over the top of the silver.. hmm... also, I have a bubble wand that runs all night and day so he shouldn't be low on Oxygen..

[fishymommy]

As I type my water tests are processing. Today, my pH is down to 7.2 which is better but still not perfect. Would adding decorations cause that to go up? I found some neat rocks outside my home and cleaned them well without using chemicals that would hurt my fish.. could that have made it rise?

[james481]

I found some neat rocks outside my home and cleaned them well without using chemicals that would hurt my fish.. could that have made it rise?

Yes, many types of rock will dissolve into water and affect the pH of the water. Did you do "the vinegar test" on those rocks before putting them in the aquarium?

[fishymommy]

Ok. So appearently the last results were from June 27th. Todays lvls are pH = 7.2, ammonia = 0, nitrite = 0, nitrate = 10..

[fins_n_fur]

Definitely do what fishalicious has suggested in regards to the 50% daily water changes until your ammonia and nitrItes are reading 0.

It would probably help a bit more if you could tell us how you cycled your tank back in February and what sort of filter you have and filter maintenance that you do and how often. Also, how many gallons is the tank? If you don't know, give us the measurements (length x width x height) and someone will figure out an approximation. If you started your tank in February and did a fish cycle, slowly with a few fish, your tank should be cycled by now. Certainly, if you did a fishless cycle and kept up with water changes and cleaning the substrate, you should be okay by now. Something is weird here.

Also, can you think what may have caused the increase of your pH levels? Was it a gradual increase, or very quick? Did you add any new decoration or stones or something to the tank?

Very sorry for more questions, but we need to figure out what's going on here.

[fishymommy]

Well, I had my tank before February but I had trouble with my tank and started all over. Cleaned everything and bought the fish I have now. I may have overloaded the tank and for about the first month didn't understand that I needed only to do a water change each week and vacuum once a month. I've been maintaining my tank properly now for two months and it is appearently almost completely cycled. I have an external filter that I clean the cartridge once or twice a month. My tank is a 20g tank but I am uncertain the exact length n width because it is a 20 Long. I just added those new rocks as decor from outside. I scrubbed them with hot water and a brush for a long time till they seemed clean. Could that be my problem? Also, my fish is doing worse, he isn't really trying to swim much anymore and is partially using my fake plant to stay towards the top.

[fins_n_fur]

I suspect the rocks may have increased the pH of the tank...do you know what kind of rocks they are? Sudden changes in pH are generally not good for fish. I don't know if you should take them out at once or slowly so the pH can re-adjust slowly...another quick change in pH could be deadly. Hopefully someone with more experience can advise here.

Have you done a 50% water change today? That's the most critical thing at the moment. Also, what product do you use as water conditioner/dechlorinator? If you are not using one, that could also be another source of problems.

Sorry, but more questions: What is the make or brand and model number of your filter? You may have a filter/filter material that is not sufficient in size for your tank. When you clean the filter cartridge, are you using hot tap water, cold tap water or tank water or any cleaning products? If you are over cleaning the filters, you may actually be killing the bacteria that are helpful to keeping the ammonia and nitrites being processed and at zero levels.

[fishymommy]

I haven't done a water change because I didn't want to stress out my fish more but I can go ahead and do that. I noticed that my temp was at 80 which my fish aren't use to so I turned off the heater for the time being. My filter is a Cascade power filter model 150 for up to 35 gallons. I only clean my cartradge when it gets completely coated with slime and starts to block up the filter. When I do I use the spray hose in my sink to rinse it off with luke warm water. I know it kills any bacteria in the cartridge but there is still my rock on the bottom of my tank and the sponge in the filter where they live. Also, the rocks I added were just three ho-ho sized rocks for decor, not my substrate.

[fishymommy]

I have a question. Could he be constipated? He is slightly bloated. I've always found this normal seeing as soon after, they take a giant poo in my clean tank and are all better lol. However, he isn't pooing like normal. When he does, its almost clear with a milky white hint to it. Not at all the consistency of normal gourami fish poo.. The articles give suggestions on how to treat it but all it says is to add oil to food and have him eat that but he's not eating anything. Do you agree with this diagnosis? When my other male died from constipation, he was as wide as a quarter. This fish is only that of maybe a dime. Also, after the other died, my nearby aquarium expert said that the tetra brand for flakes was hard to digest so I got Omega One: Natural Protein Formula. Do you agree with my diagnosis?

[fins_n_fur]

Okay, I'm far from an expert by any means but:

1. 50 % water change ASAP treated with a suitable dechorinator like Seachem's Prime daily until you have no ammonia or nitrites...these slowly can kill fish which probably explains why your gouramis don't look so hot. I bet in a couple of days your fish will look healthier with the water changes, if not with the first water change. Please do not wait on this-do not read more..go do this now!
2. When you clean your filter material, it's best to use tank water in a bucket and do it gently...not super clean, but clean enough. If you constantly kill the beneficial bacteria that process ammonia and nitrates, your tank cycles until enough benefical bacteria build up again...it sounds like you are having too many mini-cycles and over a period of time, not good for the fish and not good for you stressing over the health of your fish. Whilst there are some bacteria living in your substrate, most live in the filter media.
3. Your filter may be rated a bit below for your tank, but not by much. Most of us have filters rated for at least double the volume...generally a safe guideline. So, if you have 20 gallons, the idea is to aim for a filter than can handle a 40 gallon tank. I don't have experience with Cascades so I can't help more there.
4. I don't know where you live so I don't know what kind of weather are having. Better not to turn the thermo off, but down to a normal temp of 75 or so, depending upon what is best for your fish. Temperatures swings in the water is another complication best avoided at the moment.


Please let us know how it goes...we care about our fish and other folks fish here! You and your fish are in our thoughts!

[fishymommy]

Ok, sounds good. Should I still do the 50% change since there is no ammonia or nitrites? I just did a test this morning that said 0 on both.

[fins_n_fur]

Nothing like a curve ball of possible constipation LOL Not sure what to advise except trying to feed some skinless cooked peas to see if that helps moves things a long, as it were. If memory serves, a quarter is really not that much thicker than a dime, but if you believe constipation is likely based on on your experience, then the peas should help unblock things. A partial water change is probably still not such a bad idea...it can't hurt.

[fishymommy]

lol, i mean the face of a quarter or dime. I'll do the water change just to be safe and pick up some peas when i go into town. How do i get him to eat them if hes not eating his normal food? How should i prepair them?

[fins_n_fur]

LOL now, that's a bit of a difference...I was thinking you had a super slim variety of gouramis LOL. Cooked normally (boiled), and shelled. Shouldn't need too many for a constipated fish.

[james481]

Also, after the other died, my nearby aquarium expert said that the tetra brand for flakes was hard to digest so I got Omega One: Natural Protein Formula. Do you agree with my diagnosis?

I feed my four Gourami (2 Opaline, 2 Neon Blue Dwarf) Tetra flakes and they don't seem to have any problems with it. Do you ever feed your pleco raw cucumbers? My Gourami (Gouramis?) seem to enjoy nipping on my pleco's cucumber (much to her chagrin). Perhaps a diet slightly higher in vegetable matter would help prevent some of the digestive problems you're experiencing.

[Lady Hobbs]

Nothing you do can stress those fish more than the toxins they have been living it. It is extremely hard for them to even breathe and secondary infections like Ick and fungus will often occur because their immune systems have been weakened.

Feed fish very very little for now as food=ammonia.

[fishymommy]

Ok. Got the peas. I'm off to boil. Cross your fingers that it works. I got the temp back to normal while I was away and he swam to the other side of the tank while I was gone also so... thats good! w00t! Thanks for all of your help!!

[Lady Hobbs]

Remember that your bio load is only supporting the fish that are in the tank now. When you add new fish, add no more than maybe 2 a week so the bacteria can keep up. More, of course, in larger tanks but your tank is small.

Letting the fish fast for a day or two will relieve him of that constipation if he doesn't eat the peas.

[fishymommy]

Ok. Sounds good. What if he hasn't eaten for a day or two already? Do I fast more if he doesn't eat the peas?

[fishymommy]

I feed my four Gourami (2 Opaline, 2 Neon Blue Dwarf) Tetra flakes and they don't seem to have any problems with it. Do you ever feed your pleco raw cucumbers? My Gourami (Gouramis?) seem to enjoy nipping on my pleco's cucumber (much to her chagrin). Perhaps a diet slightly higher in vegetable matter would help prevent some of the digestive problems you're experiencing.
I feed my pleco zucchini. He doesn't seem to like cucumbers. Once in a while they would peck at it when I first started feeding it but now they just ignore it...

[fishymommy]

no go on the peas. He seems too focused on struggling to the surface than the green things floating around him. Even the other fish ignored them. Can fish sense bad weather? Because they seem extra twitchy and we just were issued a tornadoe warning...

[fishymommy]

I have bad news. The gourami didn't make it. He died just a few hours ago. I tried the peas, nobody, even the healthy fish tried to eat them. I even tried to open a few so they could try the insides but nothing. Thank you very much for your help. I don't know why they keep dying but I have one gourami left. Hopefully he won't go. Its just strange. I had the first male die of what I'm pretty sure is constipation. I fix the food but then the female seemed to mope for him.. soon she died.. then this guy stopped eating and eventually died. I just don't understand. If you have any idea, please help me. Thank you for your help already. I hope all of your tanks and fish are alive and well and will be for a long time. Thank you,

Fishymommy

[fishymommy]

Hello. I am having problems with my tank. I have an odd series of deaths that have got me beat down and distressed. Here is my story. I have a 20g Long aquarium. It runs with a Cascade 150 external power filter meant for up to 35 gallons. I also have a water heater that keeps the water at a nice 75-76 degrees F. There is also a bubble wand with air pump providing plenty of nice fresh oxygen to my remaining fish. The water lvls are also good. pH- 7.0-7.2, ammonia- 0, nitrite- 0, nitrate- 10. I feed my fish Omega One: Natural Protein Formula flakes, my herbivores a mix of algae wafers and raw zucchini, and my frog shrimp pellets that everyone likes to nibble on. I feed them twice a day. Just a pinch to make sure none is wasted. If they eat it all before the 2min deadline, I give them a little more. The remaining habitants of my aquarium are one dwarf gourami, three neon tetras, four rasboras, one pleco, one dwarf frog, and one mystery snail.

[fishymommy]

Within the last month, I have lost three out of four dwarf gouramis. The first male dwarf died at the beginning of June. I had called the nearby expert who diagnosed him with constipation. After he died, the female began to hide a lot and only ate once in a while. She died almost two weeks after him. She died almost two weeks ago and another male dwarf started acting weird like her. He hid more in the corner towards the surface and stopped eating regularly till a few days ago when he didn't eat at all. He just died this afternoon.

[fishymommy]

My question to you, is what have I done wrong? I have lost fish before but then, we always new what the problem was and why they had died. And since those experiences, I have been able to treat those problems as they reoccured. However, now, I have no idea. Why we were trying to help each dwarf gourami, no one could find a diagnosis. I really love my fish. Maybe more than some would expect someone to love a fish but I do. I know it may seem foolish but it really makes me sad at the idea that I couldn't do something to help my poor fish. So I am asking you, please, is there anything that you can tell me that may help? Do you have any idea what may have happened? What I could do if my last gourami starts acting strange?

[Nick_Pavlovski]

I lost all my 3 within about 5 weeks - don't know why they died or so suddenly, as there were other occupants whom were all fine.

I'll have to pass this over to others whom might be able to suggest things.

[oldhead]

How is your water testing? I had a similar occurance a few months ago with some giant Danio. Fine one day and pretty much dead the next after the hiding, not eating, etc.. However during that time all my other fish seemed unaffected. Could just be a bacterial infection that they can't cope with or beat. As its been said before sometimes fish do just die for no or some mysterious reason.

[Lady Hobbs]

I have never had luck with dwarf gourami's. The large gourami's did fine for me (other than their aggression) but the dwarf's die on me everytime.

[kaoticice]

Yes.. dwarf gourami is considered to be poorly breed unfortunately. T__T

[Commodore 64]

I have never had luck with dwarf gourami's. The large gourami's did fine for me (other than their aggression) but the dwarf's die on me everytime.

Have to agree, although my only experience with them was back when I was in college and we didn't exactly know what we were doing with our aquarium.

[annie p]

Soory about your fishy:confused:

[james481]

Sorry to hear about your fish. As a preventative measure, you could try feeding your remaining fish some of that anti-bacterial treated food. I don't know if it would help, but I would guess that it can't hurt. Hope you can get it sorted out...

[fishymommy]

Hmm.. ok.. I was looking up stuff. Do any of you think that it sounds like dropsy? I mean, the websites say it is oftenly mistaken for constipation.. they get lethargic, loss of appetite and stay near the top or bottom of tank.. Each of my fish got lethargic and stopped eating. Two out of the three dead were bloated.. Only one got as large as to have the "pine-cone" effect however...

[fishymommy]

Thanks. I still have no idea for sure, and I hate to say it, but some of the symptoms and patterns seem to fit dropsy...

[fishymommy]

I have had, over the last month, three dwarf gouramis die all two weeks apart. Each had symptoms of being lethargic and losing all appetite. Two out of the three became bloated. I didn't look before but the first to die was bloated enough that he could have had the pine-cone effect but I never saw it for sure.. It says dropsy is a bacterial infection and I know a bacterial infection would cause a pattern like this..

[Commodore 64]

If they got the pinecone effect, while still alive, then it was dropsy.

[terrapin24h]

it sounds like it, medicating your tank prob wouldn't be a bad idea. Unfortunately dropsy isn't always curable. good luck

[Lady Hobbs]

You now have at least threads going on the same thing. I have merged them so they are all together and people aren't having to answer the same questions 3 times.

[fishymommy]

lol, ok. thank you :o)