Contemplating a Try

[Fishalicious]

Yip the Mermaid is seriously thinking of spoiling herself by giving herself even more fishy work around the house.

I am a complete saltwater uber noob - I really need to get a book like Idiots Guide LOL

I am thinking of starting small to see if I like it...the tank in question would be a 35 Gallon - 40 Gallon .. that still falls under Nano right?

I have not the faintest clue if that is a nice size for some fish or if I should just go smaller and just keep corals. If it is a nice size for fish then are there many options?

The tank will come with all the gadgets and lighting it needs so I just need an idiot guide on cycling if it is different to freshwater and also what bits & bobs I have to have in the house...salinity meter etc.

I would leave the live rock first for a month before adding substrate (easier to clean I reckon) which will be either coral sand or live sand.

Anyone got any nice ideas and what I have to have in the house?

[cocoa_pleco]

33g isnt nano, its a awesome start though. you have plenty of options for fish, corals, etc.

cycling a SW tank is put LR in, let it die off, produce ammonia, then ut cures. you can add a few fish after.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Another one converted!!! YES!!! LOL

Welcome to the dark side. Are you planning on doing an overflow system with this tank Jess? I would recommend it if possible. You are going to need powerheads for increased flow. Remember, these fish come from surge zones and as such thrive in the high flow. A 40gal tank would be a good size to start with, it isn't actually considered a nano. 20gal and under is considered nano. Honestly, you will be better off adding your sand and rock at the same time. However, if you really want to, you can omit sand altogether. Cycling is similar to that of freshwater except the live rock takes it a step further with de-nitrifying bacteria. With FW 20ppm is acceptable for a NO3 reading, however in SW that is way way too high. Your goal for a marine tank should be about 5ppm or less. A 40gal tank will give you some great options for fish. That tank would easily hold a pair of Ocellaris or Percula Clowns. Have a look through the Amphiprion, Gramma, and Pseudochromis genres in the profile section. I'm not sure how may Pseudochromis are there, but I know all the Amphiprions and Grammas are there. :) Also, if you are interested in a dwarf angel of some kind, then most of the members of the Centropyge genus would work as well, however I would aim for something like the following:
C. acanthops
C. flavicauda
C. shepardo
C. vroliki

All of those fish listed are dwarf angels that stay under 4". The biggest caution of any member of the Centropyge genus is that they all can nip at LPS corals.

What kind of lighting will you have? That is your determiner for corals you can keep.

Also, read through this thread. It may also help
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=25486

[Fishalicious]

Beautiful fish!!! I am glad it is large enough to house 1 or 2 thumbs2: I fell in love with the Royal Gramma right now ;)

Ok I shouldn't really be looking at fish yet until I even start LOL I am not converted yet...contemplating <grins>

The tank in question has the following:
Inside filter with 4 chambers : 2 with sponges for biological filtering and the other 2 with Sera Siporax

A powerhead: Sera STP 1000)
Proteinskimmer: Sera PS 130
UV Filter: 5 Watts
100 Watt heater
2 x T5 PL-24W specialized reed blue lights
2 ventilators

I just double checked and it is 40 Gallon

From what I understand I think the lighting is only enough for soft corals from what I have read in reef keeping articles?

I thought it might be a nice little starter kit and if the bug bites me I have more than enough much larger tanks I can convert.

[Lady Hobbs]

You can do this Jess and you have lots of saltwater nuts here to help you.

Go for it.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Lighting that is capable of supporting most Soft Corals will also be sufficient for many species of LPS as well. As for those sponges in the filter, I'd remove them if I were you as they are going to be nitrate factories, something you don't want. The UV sterilizer is something that I wouldn't employ much either.

BTW, you can only have one member of the Centropyge genus per tank.

[unleashed]

My answers in bold


Beautiful fish!!! I am glad it is large enough to house 1 or 2 thumbs2: I fell in love with the Royal Gramma right now All Gramma sp. are beautiful ;)

Ok I shouldn't really be looking at fish yet until I even start LOL I am not converted yet...contemplating <grins>

The tank in question has the following:
Inside filter with 4 chambers : 2 with sponges for biological filtering and the other 2 with Sera Siporax Not required. Just need a protein skimmer and live rock. It would be best to use a sump and overflow system as this will increase you water volume and give you place to put all of your equipment

A powerhead: Sera STP 1000) You will need several powerheads for a tank that size. Try TUNZE products
Proteinskimmer: Sera PS 130 Buy quality. Brands such as TUNZE and DELTEC are top brands
UV Filter: 5 Watts Not required
100 Watt heater
2 x T5 PL-24W specialized reed blue lights If you want corals, go for a metal halide system with a 14000K bulb (a 150W bulb will suit your tank). Or go for a complete T5HO system (maybe six to eight bulbs)
2 ventilators (Don't know what these are, but not required)

I just double checked and it is 40 Gallon

From what I understand I think the lighting is only enough for soft corals from what I have read in reef keeping articles?

I thought it might be a nice little starter kit and if the bug bites me I have more than enough much larger tanks I can convert.

[cocoa_pleco]

i would skip the UV, they kill more good than bad in SW

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Unleashed, I think you and I are likely to have to agree to disagree but Metal Halides are not necessary. You need to figure out what kind of corals you want before you determine what lighting you will get. There's not much point in getting more than you need. While all photosynthetic corals will benefit from the halides, they are more power consumption than you may need. I have all soft corals and LPS in my 125gal and they could all benefit from Halides, but halides are not really worth it for me, they generate more heat then I want to deal with. Halides often create the need for a chiller, especially on a smaller tank. T5HO lighting will allow you to grow almost anything you want and you won't get the heat transfer or the high energy costs you will get from Halides.

[unleashed]

GB, I do agree with you. What I really mean by halides (also by suggesting T5HOs) is that these will give you the greatest variety of what corals and clams that you can keep

[Fishalicious]

What are the essentials I need then (not including the tank stuff)

I don't have much option on the technical side of things as this is a all in one plug & play tank - which is the reason I am contemplating it to try and see if I enjoy saltwater...although I am pretty sure I can rip the UV out and replace the sponges with other filter material.

A hydrometer...sea salt...can I use freshwater a testing kit? ...do I need Reverse Osmosis? Do the corals (probably mainly soft corals) need additives to the water?

[squirt_12]

Thats awesome that you are "contemplating" on liking the SW by trying it.

You will need:
sand or argonite (sp?) for substrate
salt
reef test kit
hydrometer or refractometer (refractometers are more accurate) to measure the salinity.
RO/DI water, some LFS's carry it but you can buy your own system.

Thats all I can think of right now....

Good luck!

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

GB, I do agree with you. What I really mean by halides (also by suggesting T5HOs) is that these will give you the greatest variety of what corals and clams that you can keepAh, I understand. Then in that case I guess we are in complete agreement. thumbs2:

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

A hydrometer...sea salt...can I use freshwater a testing kit? ...do I need Reverse Osmosis? Do the corals (probably mainly soft corals) need additives to the water?

I'll deal with them in order.
Test Kits: some are universal but it is generally best to use kits specifically designed for marine. Sera makes a great line of test kits.

Unless you have extremely good tap water you are going to want Reverse Osmosis water. You are used to Freshwater where Phosphates are beneficial to your plants, however in a marine environment, there is nothing beneficial about phosphates, they are the main source for cyanobacteria. You goal for the water you use is to have the lowest TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) number possible with 0 being ideal.

Most of the additives you will need for your corals is already contained in the salt you use to mix the water. This is largely why water changes are necessary in a reef system. The water needs the elements replaced as many of them will precipitate and will also be used by your corals. The 3 main things to keep an eye on are Calcium, Magnesium, and your Alkalinity. There is an interesting and extremely complex balance that takes place between those 3 things. Iodine, Strontium, and Molybdenum generally do not need to be dosed, however they can be beneficial.

[Kuli_Loach]

Very good info above! All I can add is good luck and when you get it set up and cycled I may be able to hook you up with some frags cheap.thumbs2:

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I may be able to hook you up with some frags cheap.thumbs2:

I doubt it. LOL Overnight shipping to Europe can get a bit expensive. LOL

[Kuli_Loach]

Oh shiz!! It's over there! NVM, good luck only.thumbs2:

[fins_n_fur]

Cool that you're going going to the dark side! And this is the person that said she didn't like salt water for all of the possible strange and bizarre hitchhiker critters :hmm3grin2orange: Are we going gadget shopping on Friday then? I believe there is a salt water speciality LFS in Haarlem, but you probably already knew that. With your talent, the tank will be a stunner!

[cocoa_pleco]

With your talent, the tank will be a stunner!

lol, thats what i was just thinking too!

[coachfraley]

I agree with Unleashed on the Tunze Skimmers. I have a 9002 on my 31g all-in-one and I LOVE it. Very easy to mount and dial in. Also very reasonable. If you are going with a 30g tank and a sump, you might have to go with something a little larger than the 9002 because your water volume would be at least 40g total.

I would also like to recommend T5 lighting (assuming you aren't going for a SPS tank). Great bang for the buck on T5's, and they run VERY cool compared to MH or PC.

Good luck, and it is great that you are taking the plunge. Once I tried SW, I ditched my FW tanks. IMO, it is just WAY more fun!

[cocoa_pleco]

Good luck, and it is great that you are taking the plunge. Once I tried SW, I ditched my FW tanks. IMO, it is just WAY more fun!

after i set up my 55g reef, thats what I did too, I only have my old FW fish now, never have bought a new one since

[Fishalicious]

Ahhhhhhhhh I would never ditch my FW friends...ever LOL

I want to thank everyone here for their fantastic help and comments thumbs2: What a fab community we have here...

I am slowly thinking it might be worthwhile converting one of my FW tanks by buying the proper equipment rather than a ready built plug & play system...I have been looking at fish online and there are sooooo many beautiful ones... top of the list are Sphaeramia nematoptera - Apogon spp. - Paracheilinus carpenteri - Gobiodon atrangulatus - Nemateleotris magnifica - Fridmani Pseudochromis (of course not all of them in one 40 gallon tank)

I will be ordering some books today (thanks for the suggestions Dave) and the Reef specialist at the Artis (Zoo) in Amsterdam was kind enough to agree to let me come and meet him and pick his brains on Thursday - wooohoooo

Cocoa & Fins - you guys are funny to have so much faith in me... believe me my first planted tanks were not much to look at LOL

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Great choices. I listed a couple of cautions below.


Paracheilinus carpenteri - Jumper
Gobiodon atrangulatus - Very delicate if purchased to small, purchase full grown specimen
Nemateleotris magnifica - Jumper
Pseudochromis Fridmani - Jumper
You really want to have a nice tight fitting lid or no large holes at all for those potential jumpers.

[Fishalicious]

They are good beginner fish aren't they? There will be a tight lid on the tank so that shouldn't be a problem thumbs2:

Which could you nicely keep in a 40 gallon together or should I only get one species?

Hahahaha just noticed I am back to asking... sorry... will read the books first and knowledge up some more before asking.

You guys are seriously going to have to help me with hitchhikers in the live rock though !!!!!!!!

[cocoa_pleco]

I am slowly thinking it might be worthwhile converting one of my FW tanks by buying the proper equipment rather than a ready built plug & play system


good idea, i hate plug/play systems, theyre a pain to upgrade. thats why i hated my nanocube, it had 14w of T-5, and i didnt have room to upgrade anything, not even to a 65w PC. I hate plug and play systems again because they have no individuality, you end up using the same kits skimmer, lights, etc. when its cool to have different types.

If you want a bit cheaper lighting, you can go retrofit. Retros are easiest if you have a wooden canopy. You can mount the lights (say 4x65w power compact 50/50's) on the inside roof of your hood, and save maybe $50 total on the light.

[digital3]

Jess, if you move forward with this... Can I just ask one thing? You are usually really really good at this stuff. I mean, everything you set your mind to always ends up awesome... So, do you think once you get started you can document your process? Either in a thread or in your blog? I think it would be awesome for any prospective Salt Water keepers (like me :ezpi_wink1: ... some day) to see this from the start. Especially from someone with tons of freshwater experience (like yourself). Am I kissing your butt enough...? Would you like a sandwich?

OK I'm done... :11:

[Fishalicious]

Hahahahaha no problem Joda...I will document each step with foto's until they are coming out of your ears and you will be kissing my butt to stop thumbs2:

[Fishalicious]

See flattery will get you anywhere <grins> xxxx

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

See flattery will get you anywhere <grins> xxxx

I knew I was doing something wrong! LOL

[digital3]

See flattery will get you anywhere <grins> xxxx

Now to go make that sandwich! :thumb:

Thanks Jess!