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MiamiCuse
06-16-2008, 02:40 AM
These are the rams I have. The LFS called them "angel rams". Size is about 1-1/4" from the top of the mouth to the end of the tail fin. I have two of them that I am not sure of their sex. I have had them for about 8 days now. One of them is very camera shy and I had to lure him into a breeder basket just to keep him/her there for the pictures. I marked them "A" and "B".

Here are the pictures for ram "A".

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/a1.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/a2.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/a3.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/a4.jpg

"A" does not have any side black marks like the rest of them do. "A" also have black/gray strips in his/her pelvic fins, although the darkness of it seems to strange form time to time.

Due to picture posting limits I will make another post with more pics.

MiamiCuse
06-16-2008, 02:42 AM
Here is a picture of ram "B":

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/b1.jpg

"B" does have a side black mark, but at the time this picture was taken, he/she seems a bit stressed and the side black mark disappeared. When I did see the side black marks, I can see the blue dots coming through the black mark. "B" also has a very light gray strip in his/her pelvic fin.

Here are "A" and "B" together:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/AB.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/pub/AB1.jpg

I cannot tell their sex. "A" and "B" butt heads a lot, but lately "B" is dominant and is chasing "A" around all the time.

MiamiCuse
06-16-2008, 02:44 AM
If I have to guess they are either both female or "A" is male and "B" is female? But "B" is definitely the more colorful of the two.

Another thing I would be interested to know is if these are "juiced up" rams.

Thanks!

country_boy454
06-16-2008, 03:23 AM
I am by far no expert at this but looking at how pointy their dorsal fins are I think you have two males. That would explain why the one chases the other around more and is also more colorful as it would be the more dominant one.

Nice pics by the way. Very beautiful looking rams.

sandy_n
06-16-2008, 03:34 AM
Pretty coloring on your rams. :c3:

angelcakes
06-16-2008, 06:37 AM
nice looking rams:19: :19: :19:

Incredulous_Ed
06-16-2008, 03:53 PM
Im going to take a wild shot and guess both are males or that B is a female and A is a male.

Are they gasping alot?

MiamiCuse
06-16-2008, 05:03 PM
no not gasping at all. mostly stayed at the bottom and likes to be between the rocks. they will swim up to the mid level from time to time. if they see each other than they do a "stand off" and will butt heads.

but lately "B" seems to be dorminant and will chase "A" around whenever they see each other.

however, when I lured "B" into the breeder basket to take pictures, "A" comes around and looked at "B" as if wanting to arrange a jail break. :hmm3grin2orange:

Incredulous_Ed
06-16-2008, 05:23 PM
lol. Just keep them on a high quality diet (NLS or hikari) and keep the water quality outstanding and they should do great!

MiamiCuse
06-17-2008, 05:41 PM
Incredulous_Ed,

If B is female and A is male, is it possible for B to be more colorful and aggressive?

Seems now B is always chasing A around and pecking at A, and A is basically surroundering.

I am thinking of taking B back to the LFS and switch to one that is definitely female (assuming A is definitely male), but I am not sure how to tell for sure.

Fishalicious
06-17-2008, 05:59 PM
Looking at them I believe them to both be female - which means they are niggling at each other for top position. You can tell B is the more dominant... if you have more of one sex one will always show less coloring... the way to get the best coloring is to have a male and female and keep them as a pair.

MiamiCuse
06-18-2008, 12:12 AM
If they are both female, which one would you recommend I take back?

A is less colorful but seems to really get along with other fish in the tank.

B is aggressive and attack everything in sight, but B is more colorful.

I am thinking of taking B back to the LFS and switch it out.

MiamiCuse
06-18-2008, 04:54 AM
Well, things are not going so well...

As I said, when I bought the pair 10 days ago, they were "equal", each had their own territory in the tank, and when one encroach on the other, they do the stand off and head butts.

About 4 days ago, no more stand off and B seemed to have dominated and chase A around and A seemed to have surrounded and just move away as soon as B comes close. B will peck at A all the time. It got to be so much yesterday I put B in it's own tank for now. But the problem is A seems to be really stressed. A has lost some of it's color, it's pelvic fins seem to be a bit torn (but I am not sure it was not before but I did not noticed this before).

Even with B gone now, A is hiding all the time, come feeding time B will not even come out to feed and ignore food drifting by.

I have a bad feeling A is heading to a really bad situation. What should I do?

Lady Hobbs
06-18-2008, 05:06 AM
Gosh, those are cute! First time I've seen them.

Fishalicious
06-18-2008, 10:03 AM
B is oviously the stronger and more dominant female... in fishkeeping as much as we love 'underdogs' in life it is more wise to keep the more stonger fish so I would return A and watch the tank for a long time to find a nice dominant male to match B

donvichu
06-18-2008, 03:58 PM
B looks very beautiful....I would suggest you keep the dominant one and look for a pair for it :19: :19: :19:

Ryuu
06-18-2008, 04:00 PM
They kidna look like ballon rams lol

MiamiCuse
06-18-2008, 05:08 PM
I am tempted to keep B, but B is also a bully to the rest of the fish in the tank. So B is not easy to get along with while A is more mellow.

I am torn.

Fishalicious
06-18-2008, 05:14 PM
If it is any consolation A will color up more once B is gone if you are that torn

Ryuu
06-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Yeah A is probably scared out of his mind, and trying to blend in so I would keep A but he might become the bully if B is gone

MiamiCuse
06-19-2008, 04:23 AM
sad news...

A is gone when I came back home this evening. I noticed he/she was not eating yesterday and the day before yesterday and looked stressed even with B moved out.

So I guess the decision has been made for me.

I will put B back into the tank and see how it does, and then go to the LFS and make sure I get a definite male this time.

Incredulous_Ed
06-19-2008, 05:08 AM
sad news...

A is gone when I came back home this evening. I noticed he/she was not eating yesterday and the day before yesterday and looked stressed even with B moved out.

So I guess the decision has been made for me.

I will put B back into the tank and see how it does, and then go to the LFS and make sure I get a definite male this time.
Sounds maybe like a poorly bred asain ram. If the new one you get also faces the same fate, then I would avoid buying rams from the same source.

Fishalicious
06-19-2008, 01:40 PM
All Angel Balloon or whatever people are calling them are Asian Bred so they are always going to be a lot weaker.... they are a lot weaker as it is due to their body shape - they have been line bred from fish with Spina Bifida which shortens their body in this way and makes them more round.

MiamiCuse
06-19-2008, 02:20 PM
OK south Florida is raining today, to mourn with me for the poor ram.

I put the stronger ram B back into the original tank, and she (I think she) is now less aggressive. I need to look for a male partner for her now.