ok considering saltwater.

[graceluvsplatys]

I MAy be able to get a cheap small reef taNK SET up ( like 20-29 g) ( i know that bigger is better, but.....
I want to know
a) do you guys think i can handle it? lay it on me straight.
b) what would be a hardy, easy stocking? ( i like personality over beauty)
c) any tips on what to do ( read the sticky already, im looking for under thr table stuff lol
d)what is neccesary for a good life for fish named in (b)?
I can get everthing I need cheap, im good bargain shopper, so dont consider cost when it comes to supplies( not fish, mind you)
thanks for any help!

[Drumachine09]

Im no good at helping people set up saltwater, but I will give you this peice of advice.


If you get a clownfish, never, EVER, name it nemo.

[graceluvsplatys]

oh totally i was NEVER gonna name it nemo!
maybe marlin
lol jk of course.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

a) Yes you can do it if you are willing to put the time into reading and reading and reading and work at it.
b) For a 20-29g A pair of Ocellaris Clowns would be great, there are a number of small fish that will do fine in a 30g. If you only go 20 then you be more limited. Just remember, a marine tank must be stocked lighter than a freshwater tank.
c) Stay away from Seaclone and Red Sea Prizim skimmers, they are junk. Skilters are pretty much useless as well.
d) You may run into a cost issue with live rock. If you want to do it cheap then buy dry rock and a few pounds of Live Rock rubble from your LFS. Most stores sell the rubble really cheap. I get my store to scrape the bottom of their Live Rock tank to get the small stuff. That will help seed the dry rock. It may take a little longer to get up and running but you will be saving a lot of money. To get the needed live rock (30-50lbs) you would be spending $180-$300 and that is a conservative estimate, $210-$350 is more likely. As for sand, you can do that cheaply as well. You don't have to go out and buy live sand, that can be seeded from the LR rubble as well, I used playsand for mine. I'd say 50lbs would do you well in a tank that size. The sand can be purchased for less that $5. The sand and the Live Rock are going to be necessary to give your fish a good environment. The sand not so much as you can do a bare bottom reef, but the rock is an absolute must if you want things to go well.

EDIT: The best tip I can give you is to go purchase The New Marine Aquarium by Michael Paletta. It is a great book and probably the most comprehensive tome on setting up a marine tank.

[coachfraley]

a) I don't know your experience level, but I think SW maintenance compares pretty well to a high light planted tank setup.
b) The obvious choice is a member of the clownfish family. There is a reason they are SO popular. They are just an excellent fish. I have False Percs, but if I were starting a new tank, I would get some of the black false percs, they are AWESOME!
c) I did a writeup for setting up a 10g: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
There should be some info there to help you out. Of course, you will need "more" of everything, but you will get an idea of what equipment you need. I would change the skimmer/ and or fuge from optional to mandatory. Skimmers just make life SO much easier, you will not regret buying one.
d)???

[graceluvsplatys]

ok!
for d i meant that whatever you thought i should have, how should I take care of it?

btw, as a side note, why are scoter blennys on the DONT USElist in the sticky?

[gm72]

I MAy be able to get a cheap small reef taNK SET up ( like 20-29 g) ( i know that bigger is better, but.....
I want to know
a) do you guys think i can handle it? lay it on me straight.
I'll be honest and say no, you aren't ready yet. Disclaimer: I am not being cruel or trying to insult you but rather am answering your question. You have several posts that indicate to me that you are still learning expanded basics about freshwater. I don't think you have done near enough research into the subject yet. Hey--you might be very successful, I'm not here trying to discourage you. SW usually requires a large amount of research before taking the plunge, so to speak. I would encourage you to become proficient in basic information before going for it. Now mind you, you might have already done your research, in which case I am wrong and apologize for suggesting to negate your foray into SW!
I can get everthing I need cheap, im good bargain shopper, so dont consider cost when it comes to supplies( not fish, mind you)
SW is an expensive proposition comparatively to freshwater regardless of your shopping ability, just keep that in mind.

See my comments above in red.

I've been researching SW for months on end (not a huge amount, just here and there) and still don't feel comfortable with my knowledge base. I usually think it better to largely understand a situation before placing yourself in such.

So again, not trying to be negative at all, just trying to be honest.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Because they require a large number of Pods. Scooter Blennies are actually a Dragonet and as such are related to the Mandarin Dragonet. They are a more specialized feeder and as such are not good for small tanks, new tanks or beginners.

[Evil Slimy]

It's been eons since I had a reef tank, but I would say very first investment should be this book: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

My personal tips would be:
1) get the book and read it before you start investing/buying other things.

2) Expect to spend a lot of money either short term to set up a nice system or long term out of frustration to replace your original purchases with the nice equipment.

3) Do -a lot- of research on equipment. SW stock and gear tends to be more expensive so expect to pay a lot. When you do, you want to make sure you buy something solid that will last and that will fit your setup in a way that makes you happy.

4) Keep your bioload low. Higher bioload will lead to unhealthy corals, algae outbreaks, etc... etc... SW tanks are not nearly as forgiving as FW tanks and a high bioload isn't as easily remedied by more filtration.

5) After the tank is setup take your time. SW tanks cycle and mature slower and they generally do better if bioload increases very slowly.

6) Prepare to be amaaaaaaaaaazed. The endless fun of reef tanks is that you will see something new and unexpected every time you look in.

[graceluvsplatys]

gm 72;
thanks, that is exactly what i wanted to hear. Dont worry about the reasearch. This is just my first inkling of an idea to do SW, I will do MONTHS of reasearch before i take the plunge. hey, cycling takes that long anyways! one thing i promise you i will never do is jump into something without extensive reasearch. I did this post as mainly a base on which to start my reasearch. I dont want to spend time reaseaching uhh, lets say tangs, when they are in NO WAY suitible.
I only added the price thing, cause I wanted answers about the fish and their habitat, no " well, it costs x amount, blah blah blah."

please remember everyone, is that im not gonna do this tommorow. or the next day. I know this is long term, and im gonna have to babysit my pants off. humor me guys, im a kid. the reasons why i ask so may stupid questions is that i want to be 104% sure i can handle anything that comes my way.
thanks for the help, and i appreciate blunt honesty. remember that

[graceluvsplatys]

great stuff about the scooter 2. I was wondering why it was not included in the "good fish" when every ohter one was. thanks!

[gm72]

Thanks for the reassurance. Just wanting to make sure everything goes as smoothly as possible for you!

[Dave66]

I'll echo everyone else about doing your research first. Books mentioned will indeed give you a basic knowledge of reef aquarium keeping. After they I'd suggest the three Reef Aquarium books by Delbeek and Sprung for much, much more in-depth knowledge of corals and how to keep them. They are in no way cheap books, but they'll save you lots of money down the line.
They, and other reef books, are in my book list. Link is in my signature.

Dave

[cocoa_pleco]

I MAy be able to get a cheap small reef taNK SET up ( like 20-29 g) ( i know that bigger is better, but.....
I want to know
a) do you guys think i can handle it? lay it on me straight.
As long as you are able to do hours of research, and have enough money, you should be alright
b) what would be a hardy, easy stocking? ( i like personality over beauty)
A pair of clowns and a goby would be a good start
c) any tips on what to do ( read the sticky already, im looking for under thr table stuff lol
Buy a skimmer, use RO water, dont rush the tank, dont freak out about algae within the first few months
d)what is neccesary for a good life for fish named in (b)?
A skimmer, plenty of live rock, and good water quality
I can get everthing I need cheap, im good bargain shopper, so dont consider cost when it comes to supplies( not fish, mind you)
thanks for any help!

just to add my input

[NickFish]

Regardless of your shopping ability, I have to ask.

What is your budget for this tank?

[Kuli_Loach]

I MAy be able to get a cheap small reef taNK SET up ( like 20-29 g) ( i know that bigger is better, but.....
I want to know
a) do you guys think i can handle it? lay it on me straight.
It is going to be difficult for someone to start a smaller tank that has no expereience but it is possible, after all I am doing quite well with a 10g nano and they are suppose to be super hard to do but I don't recommend you go any smaller than the 29g. Research is key to success in s/w tanks and be patient.
b) what would be a hardy, easy stocking? ( i like personality over beauty)
Most people try to go for beauty instead of color so I don't know there. For personality you can't beat a percula clown along with several inverts such as hermits and shrimp and etc. Reefs are easier and that is your overall target but they beware, they are beautiful.
c) any tips on what to do ( read the sticky already, im looking for under thr table stuff lol
RESEARCH
d)what is necessary for a good life for fish named in (b)?
I can get everything I need cheap, im good bargain shopper, so dont consider cost when it comes to supplies( not fish, mind you)
thanks for any help!

SIDENOTES- I would recommend you go for the reef tank as they are easier than the type without LR. It WILL be expensive and I don't recommend you get the "bargain" stuff like you claim. Unlike some say in here, I don't think you "have" to have a skimmer in a tank that small. You want good lighting but you want to set up your lighting depending on the corals and such you want in there. Powerheads are a must and I recommend Maxijets. For neat stuff and sitting up all night looking, I recommend ordering you LR from Sea Life Inc. Great service, prices, and products.

[NickFish]

Ah yes, Mr.P brought up a good point on powerheads.

For affordablility, maxijets are a good choice, really cheap and reliable, however the larger models can overheat easily. If you want to spend the extra $20 or so I would get a hydor koralia,. They are the best powerhead hands down IMO.

As for the whole skimmer vs no skimmer debate, here's what I've personally found-

In all nano tanks, if you maintain proper water changes, skimmers are not really a nessesity. However, they do a great job of cleaning up around the tank, and it wouldn't be a bad idea if you had the money.

However, I have found that modifying an HOB or an old canister into a refugium and stuffing it with macro algae is just as good, sometimes better, and cheaper than a skimmer if you know how to do it.

[Tigerbarb]

I'm sure we'd all like to see how your setup goes. Keep us updated:19:

[gem]

You got a lot of really really good answers. I will never never discourage someone from trying their had at a sw tank. But would definately caution jumping in. You are going about it with the right attitude. You want to learn first. It's really not that hard. Expecially if, as a beginner, you stick with the beginner stuff. Don't ever cut corners on equiptment.
One thing I would recommend doing, even long before you set the tank up, is join your local reef club. Get to know them, go to their meetings, ask them questions...all in addition to here. Forums are great to get answers and advice....but there's nothing better than first hand face to face help.
I learned a great deal of what I needed to start out from reading posts on SW forums and mostly from talking to Dave and GB. And as I get more experience I learn more and more from my reef club buddies and from trial and error. Thankfully not too much from the error end of it so far. :c12:

[gem]

Ah yes, Mr.P brought up a good point on powerheads.

For affordablility, maxijets are a good choice, really cheap and reliable, however the larger models can overheat easily. If you want to spend the extra $20 or so I would get a hydor koralia,. They are the best powerhead hands down IMO.

As for the whole skimmer vs no skimmer debate, here's what I've personally found-

In all nano tanks, if you maintain proper water changes, skimmers are not really a nessesity. However, they do a great job of cleaning up around the tank, and it wouldn't be a bad idea if you had the money.

However, I have found that modifying an HOB or an old canister into a refugium and stuffing it with macro algae is just as good, sometimes better, and cheaper than a skimmer if you know how to do it.

Yes yes on the powerheads. IME maxijets are great but I won't use them in a reef tank again. Two reasons....the larger heat up too much and secondly, lack of flow dispursement. I am still currently using MJ's in my reef, but am saving for Koralia's. The flow disbursement is awesome with them. Tunze's are great too....top of the line....but are about twice as expensive!!!

[MandyL]

Grace you've gotten some good advice so far. I've thought about doing a SW setup but just can't commit to it so far. So rather than give you advice on what to do, I'll give you the reasons that I am not doing it.

-Cost. For a 20-29g I'd expect to pay at least $500 setting it up. Since you will most likely need an RO unit (I already have one), you can add another $200 or so. There are lots of things that make all this more expensive, and very few to save money.
-Maintenance. It's not easy to get the perfect mix of saltwater each time, using the proper tester (refracter? is that right), etc. Water changes are way more complicated than just dumping some fresh water in the tank.
-Risk. One slight mistake or equipment failure, and the system will crash. It's extremely fragile compared to FW. All of the months of hard work to set it up could be destroyed very easily.
-Frusteration. Hearing about the "normal" stages of the different types of algae and such has put me off - it's too common to have many months of struggling with these things before the tank actually looks like you picture.

That being said, if you really want to attempt this, I think you can do it. Just don't expect to have the perfect SW tank anytime within the next several months. Patience is key.

[graceluvsplatys]

great! thanks so much, this really helps.

[graceluvsplatys]

here, i got an email back.. here
Hi,

We bought this tank used but never ended setting it up. It seems like it was set up for salt water as it comes with coral as well as rocks, etc. It comes complete with everything including the pump, lights, temp. gauge, decorative items and others. It measures 30" wide, 18" tall, and 12" deep. Not sure how many gallons that would hold.
Since we never set it up, we don't know wether it is working but the seller we bought it from said everything was working.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for checking - please call me with any more questions.

[MandyL]

OK so just realize that the "coral" (whatever they mean by that, fake coral I guess) and rocks are fairly worthless to you. You will still have to buy about $200-300 worth of live rock to start out with.

[Kuli_Loach]

I still recommend you using Sea Life Inc. out of Florida for most of your live stock as it is cheaper and in better condition. There LR is AMAZING!

[graceluvsplatys]

i got it, it comes with everything for a FW, so i think ill upgrade my 20g to the 29g. It has a hood, 30-60 filter, 2 air pumps, and a power thingie for saltwater.it also comes with all this misc stuff, so i got it. its great!
but im gonna do FW, your right. SW is too much
ill sell the SW power thingie... and the marine bulbs, i got like 10 of ythose

[Kuli_Loach]

No don't turn away now, you had your mind set! LOL! It isn't as hard as people make it sound, it is just expensive and takes patience and such. You got through a cycling stage and all like F/W but you have so many more stocking assortments and choices.

[graceluvsplatys]

yeah, but everyone is saying how tough it is! and, my parents say i can only have 1 tank. Also, a 29g SW seems almost a waste. want to get one when I can get a 100 gal at least, and really get awesome fish. The cost is also troubling, even if i got most of it for 20 dollars already.
sorry, guys, but GM72 has a point. I dont wanna kill any fish.

[Kuli_Loach]

You won't kill any if you go at it cautious and right.

[MandyL]

Honestly I think you are making a wise and mature decision. Conquer the FW, there is still lots that you haven't done. Enjoy that for a year or two, and in the meantime keep up your research. There's lots of time down the road when you can afford it and you have more freedom in your life (aka less parental control lol).

[Tigerbarb]

I've had people tell me it's very difficult when I asked about sw, but the people here say it's pretty much like freshwater.
Oh, and I was first intending to do saltwater but I decided just to get my hands wet with freshwater. I have gotten used to maintenance and fish care with a 10g freshwater, and I have been doing lots of research as I was getting used to FW.

[cocoa_pleco]

if you feel like you should wait, trust your instincts. When i wanted to start saltwater 8 years ago, the first store said that i would need like 30 bottles of chemicals, a skimmer, etc. and that drove me away, i went to a different store and they said just salt and a hydrometer and im set. needless to say my first SW tank bombed

[Tigerbarb]

There are just so many opinions about it. Some people say you need all these very complex devices chemicals and light fixtures and a good refractometer or it's not worth trying, while another will say it's just like freshwater and it is pretty simple if you have gotten your hands wet with freshwater and have all the water tests/changes like you're supposed to.