Cyano frustration

[Drumachine09]

After weekely water changes, constant cyano harvesting, and glass scraping for a month, I STILL can't get rid of this pesky cyano. I am thinking about moving all of my corals to a bucket, and brushing off all of my LR in a bucket of fresh water. Would this harm my rock?

[Fishalicious]

Sorry Drum I am not familiar with Saltwater tanks <shame on me!> But is it not possible to blacken out the tank for 1 week? In freshwater tanks you get black binliners and tape of the entire tank so no light can get in and leave the lights off for a week...this usually kills the cyano fast as they thrive on light. Just a case of vacuuming the dead cyano as soon as the week is over.

[Drumachine09]

Sorry Drum I am not familiar with Saltwater tanks <shame on me!> But is it not possible to blacken out the tank for 1 week? In freshwater tanks you get black binliners and tape of the entire tank so no light can get in and leave the lights off for a week...this usually kills the cyano fast as they thrive on light. Just a case of vacuuming the dead cyano as soon as the week is over.


I don't think I could do that, becuase I have corals in the tank, and that wouldn't be good for them. I have cut back my lighting by 2 hours a day though.

[Dave66]

Drum,
'Tain't just light that's feeding your cyano; it's something in your water, either high Nitrate (doubtful) or high Phosphate (probable). Gotta eliminate the cause as the 'cure' of turning off the light doesn't mean you won't have a cyano plague again after you turn them on again. And I hate to tell you this buddy if you had EXTENDED your lighting period instead of diminishing it, you'd have an easier time with it. More light = faster growth = eventual diminishing of whatever has been feeding it.
You can speed it up by using one of those iron oxide pelleted products to remove the Phosphate down to NSW levels. Need a bag and a little canister for best removal.
Long as you have the over NSW levels of Phosphate you'll be battling forms of undesirable algae for what will seem like eons.

Dave

[Fishalicious]

If you have high phospates causing the Cyano then lengthening the light will cause a complete explosion... faster growth through higher lighting will not diminish cyano at all...it is not an algae that is competing with the other contents of the tank but a bacteria - it multiplies through photosynthesis so the higher the light the more it explodes.

Test you PO4 if that is high lower it....if you cannot dim or put the lights out you will need to manually remove the cyano daily and change water frequently... there are also antibiotics which can be used but as I mentioned before I am not familiar with salt water.

Cyano is a common pest in tanks that are just starting up or have only been running for 2-3 months even when all the parameters are ok.

[cocoa_pleco]

Have you been using RO water for filling the tank/water changes? If not, chances are your tapwater contains high phospates and thats causing the cyano.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Drum, I can feel your pain. My tank is going through the Cyano stage of the maturation process of the tank. I talked to my LFS a wee or so ago and they told me that I wasn't alone, everyone that had been coming in was having cyano issues. Even my LFS has some cyano growing in their tanks.

[Drumachine09]

I have been using RO water. I found a store that sells it. They go in the back to fill it up, so is it possible that they are pulling my leg, and selling me tap water. RO water shouldn't have Phosphates, should it?

[Incredulous_Ed]

I have been using RO water. I found a store that sells it. They go in the back to fill it up, so is it possible that they are pulling my leg, and selling me tap water. RO water shouldn't have Phosphates, should it?
Not if its pure RO water.

[Drumachine09]

Not if its pure RO water.



Hmmm, perhaps I should start going to the LFS all the way across town to get water then. Its 15 miles away, but as long as im not getting shafted on my water, then its worth it.

[cocoa_pleco]

i made the crap mistake of filling my tank with tapwater originally, and since i live in a big city the water gets treated alot. I had a TON of cyano in my cyano stage, everything was blanketed in it. I started using RO water, picking cyano by hand, and now i have just a little bit of cyano on my LR, and a bit on the sand on the right side of the tank, the cyano stage in my tank is almost done. I get my RO water from the Culligan machine at Safeway, the water goes through a fine filter, carbon, RO, UV, then it comes out of the machine. I usually take as many jugs as i can carry full, so usually 3 5g jugs.

just try to keep the cyano from the corals and things should be fine

[Drumachine09]

Culligan ads minerals, bicarbonates, and other things to their water. Every store around here has a culligan machine, but I don't use them because of the extra stuff.

[gem]

Drum,
'Tain't just light that's feeding your cyano; it's something in your water, either high Nitrate (doubtful) or high Phosphate (probable). Gotta eliminate the cause as the 'cure' of turning off the light doesn't mean you won't have a cyano plague again after you turn them on again. And I hate to tell you this buddy if you had EXTENDED your lighting period instead of diminishing it, you'd have an easier time with it. More light = faster growth = eventual diminishing of whatever has been feeding it.
You can speed it up by using one of those iron oxide pelleted products to remove the Phosphate down to NSW levels. Need a bag and a little canister for best removal.
Long as you have the over NSW levels of Phosphate you'll be battling forms of undesirable algae for what will seem like eons.

Dave


Here here. Dave is absolutely correctomundo. My guess is the source is likely phosphates rather than nitrates. Phosban or better yet a product called "Rowaphos" is your bestest friend. You can run it in a bag in descent flow (I have mine in the sump) or better yet....get yourself a phosban reacotr by two little fishies. They aren't terribly expensive. I will be getting one of these soon. I have been battling cyano for a couple weeks since I had a 16 hour power outage and lost my Xenia and had a phosphate spike to 1 ppm. Got a descent hair algae bloom with it. I've kept it somewhat at bay with phosban and bi-weekly water changes and manual removal. Whatever you do...don't blow it off soemthing though....that will spread it. Dave is right that you need to eliminate the cyano's food source to resolve it. Just removing it won't work....it will keep coming back till you get rid of what's causing it. Running chaeto in your sump/fuge with good light will help as well as the chaeto will use the excess nutrients that are feeding the cyano. Correct me if I'm wrong DAve. This is what I have learned through the issue I am having. It's getting mucho better.

[cocoa_pleco]

I have to agree wtih where dave said more light=faster growth=eventual diminishing of what ever has been feeding it, since ive installed metal halides on my 55g reef, the cyano has almost disappeared, i havent really paid attention to how much its gone down

[Fishalicious]

I don't mean to be a pain but it is biologically impossible for cyano once it is there to diminish by more lighting - it does not compete with anything in the tank and is a standalone bacteria that thrives on light.

[Drumachine09]

Well, I would get a reactor, but I have a 10 gallon tank with no sump, so that could pose a wee bit of a problem.


Tomorrow, I am thinking about doing a 100% water change with freshly mixed RO saltwater. If they don't have any phosphates in it, and I got a phosphate remover just in case, would scrubbing the heck out of my lr with a soft brush in a bucket of old water do the trick? I am really frustrated with this algae. I would like to order a bunch more corals, but I can't have a decent tank wiht so much algae, and I don't want to risk any corals with it.

[gem]

100% water change is not going to resolve your issue. Phosphates live on the substrate and leach into the water column. Scrubbing your LR will not resolve it either. But, will probably cause other problems and a cycle. Cyano is a given in reefing. I can't name one reefer that hasn't had it. Getting rid of cyano is a slow process that takes patience. Do more frequent small water changes, syphon out the cyano as it grows and run phosban. Might take a couple weeks to clear up. Everything in this hobby takes patience. Drastic action on alot of the issues we run inot is not usually the best resolution and often creates a worse problem.

[Zangetsu]

IME you are ALWAYS going to battle cyano for a while. Thats just the way it is. You can lessen the time you have to deal with it by following what everyone has said so far (using only R/O water, frequent small water changes, ect...) Personally I would not increase the photoperiod. I do not agree with the "using up all the nutrients" idea. I would rather just limit the nutrient input in the first place. A couple of quick suggestions. If you feed the fish frozen food, rinse it with R/O water first to get rid of the excess nutrients that the food is frozen in. I do this by thawing it, puting it in a net, then pouring water over it. Also, you may try feeding through a pipette. This will allow you to precisely control the amount of food going in and limit the amount that ends up not eaten and thus contributing to the nutrient problem. If possible you can also throw a bag of Rowaphos in your filter. Over time the cyanno problem should deminish, just give it time. Nothing happens quickly when dealing with saltwater and patients here is a must.

EDIT: Damn gem beat me to the punch with the patients idea...

[gem]

Zangetsu made a few more valid points that I have also learned. Rinse your frozen in RO/DI before feeding. The liquid that most frozen food is frozen in contains alot of phosphates. some pelleted food and flake also contains phosphates. I feed very little pelleted and flake and mostly frozen.
I agree 100% with the idea that "using up all the nutrientsA" will help starve the cyano. I don't really agree with doing this via extended photoperiod. There are other options. Your coraline needs those nutrients to grow. Once your LR is covered with coraline, it's not using as much to grow anymore, leaving room for other pest algae to use up those nutrients. scraping coraline off the back wall and sometimes even off the rock will cause it to start growing and use up those nutrients. There is also a specific fish that will pick at your coraline and help encourage regrowth but I don't remember what it was and it's not suited for a 10 gal anyway. Also, as I said before, growing chaeto or other nutirient sucking macro algae will help to use up the nutrients as well.
As for your answer on why you wouldn't get a phosban reactor....you don't have to have a sump to use one. You can hang it on the back of the 10 gal....no it won't be pretty...just functional. But running phosban in a high flow area in the bag will work ok too.

[Zangetsu]

Sorry, shoulda worded that better. I meant not using up all the nutrients via extended photoperiod. That may promote the growth of other nuisence algea like hair algea. Yes, starving the cyano is the best way to go, i'm just not a fan of extending the photoperiod.

[cocoa_pleco]

zang pointed out another good point, alot of people battle cyano for a long time. One reef store i always go to sells corals out of a 300g long, and alot of the time they have cyano bits allover, and that tank has been set up ever since ive gone to the store, so about 8 years ago.

[gem]

Sorry, shoulda worded that better. I meant not using up all the nutrients via extended photoperiod. That may promote the growth of other nuisence algea like hair algea. Yes, starving the cyano is the best way to go, i'm just not a fan of extending the photoperiod.


I knew what you meant....was reiterating your point and suggesting other ways to use the nutrients. = )

Coco....Exactly. LFS often experience frequent cyano issues....not neccesarily because their water quality is poor, but mostly for lack of LR and things in the display tank to use up the excess nutrients and prevent pest blooms like cyano. With an lfs.....they simply syphon it out as needed rather than battle it, because they know it willb e back. It would not be productive for and lfs to add LR to their sale tanks, as then, they would never be able to catch the fish to sell them. An lfs tank is simply a holding tank between the wholesaler and your home.

[jaymz]

One thing I noticed that no one has mentioned. Yes of course nitrates, phospahtes and all that other stuff feed cyano. I think the real reason for leaving the lights on longer is to promote the growth of hair algea or coraline algea to compete for those nutrients.

BUT flow is the most important thing. cyano can survive on the most minimal of nutrient and light. But it is a slime bacteria it has no root to grab hold of anything. If you have enough power heads in your tank creating a decent amount of flow around the enitre tank the cyano can never grab ahold of anything and start to 'blanket' the fact anyone has cyano means their tank has dead spots of flow.

Just stick your hand in your tank and wave it at a blanket of cyano and watch it float off of what ever it is on.

Working at a lfs my experience is that flow is ultimatly the most important part. You could have filthy water and if you have good flow, no cyano, but you would be feeding the hair algae and that much harder to get rid of.

Flow+clean water = no cyano:thumb:

[cocoa_pleco]

old thread

[jaymz]

Its only a month old and I was just trying to add something that has not been mentioned for people who are battling cyano..

cyano is too easy to get rid of