New Life Spectrum: Month 1 of 4

[Nick89]

I've decided to use the NLS Large cichlid pellets exclusively for 4 months like Fishguy and other people have recommended. I would like to give a Month by Month (with pictures) write up, how the NLS food is working for my Tiger Oscar. Ill go through each month with a picture to see how much coloration, growth, and overall health and nutrition my fish is getting from the NLS product. I hope to see great results and hopefully people can see it as well and give it a try. The 4 months will be June 1st- October 1st 2008.. My oscar ate his first NLS pellets today. Wish me, and my oscar luck!

June 1st 2008 Month 1: 2" Tiger Oscar, just getting his first NLS pellets.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/FordMan18/Oscar.jpg

Next Picture will be on July 1st 2008

[kaoticice]

He already looks great even now!! :hmm3grin2orange:

Can i just add something.
Yes, it is true that diet of a fish do play a significant role in maintaining fish health, thus colouration. But it all comes down to the care level you give to your fish. Changing water, appropriate sized tank, decoration, filtration, etc will add up more significantly than just the food itself. It's just a side note for people not to rely heavily on quality food just to maintain fish health. Not directing this comment to anyone, just wanted it as a reminder :11:

Ed

[Nick89]

Thank you for the comments, he is a cool oscar ;). And yes..I agree, and I make sure my water is perfect. Right now my water parameters are all 0 except nitrates, and that's between 10-20ppm right at the moment until my next water change. And Please, I'd like to keep this a non-debate with other foods. This is Strictly for the NLS product (I'm using the Large Cichlid sinking pellets), and I'd like to keep it that way. I want to give the NLS a good chance and see how my fish does on it.

[Fishguy2727]

That is true. You can have $1,000 in filters and feed the best stuff, if you don't do water changes you wasted it all. Many people like to lean back and rely on their canisters (people tend to be especially lazy about canisters) and overlook the need and power water changes have.

What is the water change schedule going to be?

[Nick89]

Water change schedule will be once a week 30%, for now since hes like 2". When he gets to 5" ill slowly get up to 40% once a week. Then at adult size I will go from 40- 45 or 50% weekly.

[Incredulous_Ed]

sounds good

[ladyoutlaw50]

I am about mid-week of my first week on NLS -- I am using the small sinking cichlid pellets. My guys and gals just love it!! They go nuts when they see me approach -- more so then before!!

[LosC]

Cool, I'll be following this. What size tank?

[Drip Loop]

If possible lets get an upclose pic. Makes his colors easier to distinguish :hmm3grin2orange:

[crackatinny]

Having read that about water changes, filtration etc, to get a true result here, it would also be important all these stay as they have been in the past, or it is not truely going to tell you if it is the food or other changes you have made.

[Fishguy2727]

Do you guys know what nitrate concentrations your tanks usually have?

[Halelorf]

Do you guys know what nitrate concentrations your tanks usually have?

Yes all of mine are very very low. Off the top of my head below 10 for all of my freshwater and only trace <5 for my saltwater. Back on the subject of food my rams and corys go nuts for NLS. The rams will crowd around the glass and stare at me whenever I come into the room and the corys swim frantically all over the front waiting for me to drop food in. In my saltwater tank my ocellaris clownfish also loves her NLS food. I hope you get the results you are looking for in your oscar. With the quality of food and tank maintenance you are going to do i'm sure the results will exceed your expectations.

[Ellen4God]

Just a quick side question - where do you get NLS? I've always wondered this when reading about the food and such. I looked for it at Petsmart with no luck.

[cocoa_pleco]

Just a quick side question - where do you get NLS? I've always wondered this when reading about the food and such. I looked for it at Petsmart with no luck.

www.bigalsonline.com, but i went to the big als stores here and the NLS was cheaper than online

[Nick89]

Wow, a lot of responses, this is great. Ok, ill try to answer the questions. First one, he is in a 55g tank by himself with just 1 3" Bristlenose Pleco, but hopefully after the 4 months are up im going to hopefully purchasing a 75g for him and the pleco. 2nd question, yes ill try to get a closer picture of him so you can get a more better idea of his colors although that picture is fairly accurate, i will still try to get you a better picture :). And Crack, my nitrites are always 0, nitrates 10-20 max, ph is always 7.0-7.2 consistently, ammonia 0. Water change schedule will be one a week at 30% with the gravel vaccum, along with adding stress coat as my water conditioner. After that when he reaches 5" ill slowly increase the water change % to 40%. And when he reaches mature size Ill increase that slowly to 45%. Temperature is 76-78 degrees F, i could go a smidge higher but I think its best where it is. And of course the diet is the NLS Large cichlid pellets 3mm sinking. My oscar is always, and i mean 24/7 swimming to the top very fast and moving back and forth (the feed me dance they do) everytime i walk by. This food he really loves :). I hope you all continue to follow this because I hope we can get some great results and people can see how great this product is. Just as a reminder, this diet is going to be fed ONLY, as in exclusively the NLS. No varying the diet or anything. Just good water and a strict NLS diet. And also, you can find this food online at Bigalsonline.com. When you decide to select it, be sure you know the proper size for your fish and wether it floats or not. If anyone has any questions regarding this, please let me know id be gladly to respond. Also my filtration is 2 penguin 350's.Thats well over the recommended 500gph (i have 700 gph between the 2) for an oscar. I plan on getting a fluval 405, and taking only 1 of the penguin 350's off. I think ill have more efficient filtration. But ill do this after the 4 months so i can keep everything consistent.

[Ellen4God]

www.bigalsonline.com, but i went to the big als stores here and the NLS was cheaper than online

Thanks!

ten

[LosC]

Ellen, eBay is cheaper.

[Incredulous_Ed]

Yaw, you can get a container for like 9 bucks shipped in the US.

[Commodore 64]

What size pellets would be good for Mollies, Clown Loaches, Cory Cats...

1mm or 3mm? (http://www.aquariumguys.com/spectrum-all-purpose-food.html)

[Fishguy2727]

1mm would be ideal. Check out the Thera+A.

[Nick89]

Well...Ive been feeding him the NLS pellets and he likes them, but ive noticed since i started to feed him the NLS, his oranges and reds have faded some.. Now i know lady hobbs had a problem with her fish turning white and thats what bothers me about it. So, im not sure if id like to keep feeding him the NLS right at the moment. What i will probably do is buy the Omega One cichlid pellets. the ingredients look amazing. But i dunno. Is there a reason why his reds and oranges arent "pop" ?

[Commodore 64]

OK so, you've been feeding him NLS for 3 days and you are going to stop now? What would that prove? I think you have to give it more than 3 days.

[Incredulous_Ed]

YEah dude, just give it more time and keep the water quality up.

[Billythefish]

Hi soxfan ive gone over all the posts in this thread and love the idea, i think you should keep going with it, the fact your oscar's looks to be fading is more likely to just be down to its mood! My 1ft tiger oscar dose it all the time! Stick in a live srimp and boom he's bright and colourfull again!, the fluval 405 idea rocks! I have a new 305 on its own on my 40g community tank and i'd even say its better than my ac110!, good luck soxfan keep us updated!

[MandyL]

I believe Hobbs' fish regained their colour once changing back to her regular food... So you are not doing any long-term damage to give it a proper trial.

[Fishguy2727]

Some cichlids are hormone treated to improve colors, especially Africans. Soem oscars seem to be sometimes too, just VERY bright colors when they come in that then fade. This gets them looking good in the wholesaler's and dealer's tanks so people buy them. Then they fade. Give it time. It may get bad the first month or so, but I have never seen them go downhill and stay there. All the fish I have fed it to improve in the long run, and better than any other diet I have tried.

[ladyoutlaw50]

I am finishing up my first week on NLS and a couple of my fish's color actually looks brighter -- not all!! but, going to keep feeding -- figure I will give it at least a month before I make any decisions!! My gang just loves it -- they go nuts when I come around with the food!!! LOL:laugh1blue:

[luvfins]

What did you feed him prior to this? It would make sense that any artificial colours from other foods are leaving his body, and that would be a good thing.

[ladyoutlaw50]

sorry -- what I meant to say was the majority of my fish looks wonderful and more colorful -- just a couple are still the same!! sorry

[Nick89]

Well i talked with a guy at my fish store i go to and he told me what he feeds them.. and, its variety, he feeds tetra min flakes PRO, which i picked up tonight and he likes it, and small shrimp. He swears by this food, and he uses it for his own fish. I like pellets but he really likes flakes too. And commodore, why would i put my fish' health harms way because im trying to see how a certain food is? But yea im going to think about it a little more.. But i do have the flakes anyways, and i dont see any harm in him eating them.

[Fishguy2727]

If you are trying to determine what NLS exclusively for four months can do, it is major harm to feed anything else. Faded color is not a threat to health. It means something was constantly keeping the color up before. NLS will slowly help them build it up. Color is not the only thing that shows good health, and can be artificially enhanced in a number of ways. Their initial loss of color shows there was a VERY strong color enhancer or hormones involved before.

I have used TetraMin Pro Crisps a lot before and liked them at the time. Note the "Colors" down the ingredients list, hence the varying and brightly colored crisps. They do not state that they are natural colors, which they most likely would if they were natural colors since that is a better alternative to the more likely artificial colors. The ingredients list as a whole is also not impressive. Before you consider this as an alternative to NLS, email them and ask what type of fish are in the fish meal, if it is the whole fish, and if ethoxyquin is only a part of the meals (as required by law) or an additional preservative to the food. No or a vague response should be assumed to be the less desirable possible answers, otherwise they would specify the better possible answer.

Tetra is trusted by many, but is an introductory brand for people not very advanced in the hobby and not willing to spend more on high quality products.

[Nick89]

Well im sorry for misleading anyone.. But maybe someone else is willing to try a project like this.. But i dont want to take a chance with my fish. So hes on a steady staple diet of Tetramin Pro Crisps*, notice i said crisps not flakes which the 2 are totally different, and to supplement that with sun dried small shrimp occasionally throughout the week. Since then his oranges are back in his stripes again, not turning a tan'ish color like previously and hes digesting it fine.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I may be a little late on this and don't have time to read this whole thread but i got some NLS for my tetras and they definitely didn't care for it as much as the flake food i gave them.

So i started mixing it in with the flakes and so far so good. They at least eat a pellet or two during the time of a feeding.

[Fishguy2727]

A diet of TetraMin Pro Crisps is not bad, but I would keep looking for something better. If you are not wanting to risk your fishes' health then switching to a lower quality food is not the answer.

As stated before color loss does not mean their health is at risk, it means either the new food does not have extremely strong color enhancers, or the old food does (possibly artificial color enhancers that mask true health).

[Commodore 64]

I just ordered a 10 oz jar of NLS Thera+A along with some Platinum Reef Herbivore pellets. I'll probably continue to supplement with frozen bloodworms. Trying to wean them off of brine shrimp, since I also have many cherry shrimp in the tank, I'm trying to feed them stuff that looks less like shrimp.

My fish don't seem to like flakes, or anything that floats, for that matter, after 2 months of me feeding them primarily frozen stuff.

[Nick89]

I don't think Tetra is a low quality food. and I intend to keep feeding him this, with the small sun dried shrimp. But i thank you for your input Fishguy, and others who have posted.

[Fishguy2727]

Tetra is not the worst, but far from the best. United Pet Group (company that owns Tetra) has a rep that comes to our store. Even he says it is a company designed for the beginner fishkeeper, with products of quality that match that. They are not bad, but are not the top pick of advanced fishkeepers.

[Nick89]

I don't get where you think tetra is a "begginner" food.. Its been around much much longer than most foods have. Many, many, people still use this product, and with great results.People I talk to who have over 30 years of experience, studying fish, know almost every aspect of keeping aquatics, say tetra is a good food. I think feeding 1 food to your fish can only do more harm than good in my honest opinon. No disrespect to you fishguy, you have a method, and you go by it. But I keep asking a lot of experienced guys, and im not saying you arent experienced, but have said variety is best for a fish. I dont see an ingredient on the NLS jar that makes it stand out more than other company foods. Lets just think for a moment... Can there really be one super food for a fish, that can meet all the requirements in a daily diet of a fish? I just dont think its possible. I think with variety you get more nutrition, it keeps your fish guessing what hes going to get and makes him more eager to eat. Again I'm not saying NLS is bad, nor your advice or experience, but I just don't see how 1 food can meet all the requirements for a healthy day to day diet. I stopped using the NLS soon as I saw color loss. I remembered Hobbs fish turning a white color awhile back if I remember correctly because they were on a exclusive diet of NLS. Now could that nesisarily happen to my fish? More than likely no, but theres always that possibilty, and I don't want to take that chance.
My oscar loves the diet he's on, he's always searching for food, hes excited at feeding time. I know hes getting good nutrition with the foods given to him.. I can tell how just by the way he acts, how his colors are and how responsive he is when its feeding time..

[NickFish]

Sorry sox, but I have to say the same. Tetra isn't the worst, but not the best either.

I pointed out the differences before, so I won't bother you with them again.

But even my pet store doesn't feed their fish Tetra, although it would be much cheaper than what we feed now. Tetra in general is lower quality things, designed for the beginner keeper that doesn't want to spend a ton of money. Not that you can't use it, just, there are betters.
If you think it is working for you, then keep using it.

[Fishguy2727]

If you took all that variety and put it in one pelleted food, wouldn't it be just as good as all that variety fed a little at a time? (or perhaps better because some nutrients are digested, absorbed, and used better when provided in conjunction with certain other nutrients)?

If you read the nutrition article on their site it explain a lot of the questions you are raising. Why variety is not as good as it was once thought, or at least not as vital. How a single food can provide it all, etc.

Things that are old and popular will have a lot of support. Most of it is from people who used it, it worked well enough, so they stuck with it. Ask all those Tetra using experts how many have tried NLS exclusively for at least four months. You can't prove that one thing is no good by finding a bunch of people who use something else, but have not tried the one in question.

Results are relative. Again, there are people out there who get 'great results' with even the worst diets. It is the relatively great results that matter. Which are getting the best great results.

If all the necessary nutrients are in the food and in forms that all fish can break down, then yes, one food can feed them all.

Why not just go over to NLS's forum and ask about your concerns. Bring up your experience with it. See what they have to say.

You don't see how good it is because you have not given it a proper trial.

If you want to talk about Tetra and diet in general, fine, let's share information. But if you want to talk about something that you don't have experience with you are more limited in what you can say.

Tetra is good, they are right about that. But it is not the best. Our duty to our fish obligates us to find the BEST, not the GOOD, not the WELL ENOUGH, the BEST food we can, as well as the best filtration, water change schedule, etc..

[Commodore 64]

Sorry sox, but I have to say the same. Tetra isn't the worst, but not the best either...

This is probably true, but it's not the only thing he's feeding the fish. I'm sold on NLS/Omega One/Hikari foods, and I don't mind paying more for them...and I'm excited to try NLS.

At the same time, I'll still be supplementing the NLS with other stuff. My daughter likes watching the fish eat blood worms too much for me to abandon the practice... ;)


If you took all that variety and put it in one pelleted food, wouldn't it be just as good as all that variety fed a little at a time? (or perhaps better because some nutrients are digested, absorbed, and used better when provided in conjunction with certain other nutrients)?

The one assumption here, that I'm not comfortable with, is that researches have discovered the nature of ALL nutrients that fish need. I realize that NLS adds a huge variety of components, and is not just engineering the food by adding individual nutrients. I guess I'm having a tough time letting go of my predisposition to believe that feeding one thing exclusively might not be ideal.

[Incredulous_Ed]

To be honest, none of the stores around here feed tetras foods. They either use Omega one, Hikari, NLS, or only live foods. I even aske thenm and they say use one of those three. The owner of this very popular store in San Diego, maybe even one of the most popular fish stores in San diego, reccomends only NLS and Hikari. I dont think they even stock tetras products.

[Fishguy2727]

The only thing besides Tetra being fed is dried shrimp.

Researchers in a lab do not have to figure out what all fish need. Results can show that. When fish from all over the world with varying diets are fed this exclusively for ten years and are thriving, it is complete (or at the very least as complete as the otherwise best diets, no less complete).

You are right that a single food MIGHT not be ideal. But it also MIGHT be ideal. This one, evidence shows, is complete and even better than other diets.

If you are not going to use NLS, don't use Tetra Flakes. Use Hikari pellets, especially the Bio-Gold+.

Even when I was feeding TetraMin Pro Crisps to community fish, I also fed Hikari Cichlid Gold baby sized pellets. This kept aggressive eaters busy while others got their share. Pellets fill them up better and with less mess. They also tend to be of higher quality in general.

[Nick89]

Ok first of all.. No i dont think there can be 1 pellet that can have all a fish needs in a diet. Maybe for once you should stop reading into websites trying to sell their product and look at the people who fed it to their fish who have EXPERIENCE of well over 30 35 years. And i've read the article, and have had another member read it as well and there is some FALSE facts in there. And also, these are not FLAKES, its CRISPS, they are 2 different types of food. Ok, now Nickfish.. You claim tetra to be not of high quality and you said you have pointed out to me what exactly is wrong.. But you havent gave me the explaination on what parts of the ingredients actually make it bad.. Id like to know why you and fishguy and anyone else say its low quality.. Because it happens to be a cheaper price food?? So if tetra raised the price of foods, claiming it has everything a fish needs on the jar, then its a top 3 food right? Thats all it is, they're trying to sell you their product. Not one food can provide everything a fish needs and thats it. If youre going to keep mentioning how bad tetra is, then why not give some in detail information about the ingredients that make it such a "low quality" product.

Edit: You know what, theres no use in arguing with you.. Its stupid to argue about. Everytime someone has an opinion on a different type of food or way of feeding it automatically has to either be hikari or NLS or its crap. I dont even care really...

[Incredulous_Ed]

Heres why I dont like tetra. I couldnt maintain bolivian rams on tetra. They kept dying. The food that I got them thriving with was nls. ANyway thats my experience with that matter.

[Nick89]

..Fine you know i give up.. What should i feed my oscar then? I dont want to keep arguing about it.. How about less arguing, and more helping. How about you guys give me some suggestions then, with in depth reason why.. Obviously no one agrees with me here so im done fighting.

[Billythefish]

Hay soxfan
Im feeding my new baby red oscar hikari cichlid gold medium and other live food twice a week such as- shrimp-blood worms-ect, ive had no problems so far with colour growth or blowting, but i have to say my bp's only get hikari cichlid gold small and thay have been fine to!, so i dont think it matter's what name brand food we give em as long as thay get fed 2 times a day!

[Nick89]

How big is he billy? Becuase i might buy the hikari cichlid medium pellet size.. But want to be sure hes big enough. Or the NLS 5mm sized pellets.

[Billythefish]

How big is he billy? Becuase i might buy the hikari cichlid medium pellet size.. But want to be sure hes big enough. Or the NLS 5mm sized pellets.
He was about 2'' when i got him 3 weeks ago and now 3''+ and he had no trouble with the medium hikari, when i feed him them it takes a good 5 or so befor he stops coming up for more!

[Evil Slimy]

IMO this will impossible to prove. What you would have to do is a much larger sample and a control. ie 20 oscars fed exclusively NLS and 20 fed a varied diet (frozen foods, staple, etc..). Food is only a part of what contributes to growth and development. It would very very hard to exclude genetics and environmental differences, unless you had an even larger sample maintained exactly with the same routine and something to compare it against.

Personally I feel that no 1 food can compare to a varied diet, especially for a predatory specie. I also lack to see why there is interest in finding 1 fix-all food type. I would personally get bored feeding it as much as the fish would get bored eating it and boredom is never good.

[Nick89]

Thats what im saying as well... And i am going to continue to feed him the tetramin pro crisps as they're good quality food. If it wasnt for tetra, then there would be no NLS or hikari..

[Billythefish]

IMO this will impossible to prove. What you would have to do is a much larger sample and a control. ie 20 oscars fed exclusively NLS and 20 fed a varied diet (frozen foods, staple, etc..). Food is only a part of what contributes to growth and development. It would very very hard to exclude genetics and environmental differences, unless you had an even larger sample maintained exactly with the same routine and something to compare it against.

Personally I feel that no 1 food can compare to a varied diet, especially for a predatory specie. I also lack to see why there is interest in finding 1 fix-all food type. I would personally get bored feeding it as much as the fish would get bored eating it and boredom is never good.
I agree, i can't see my oscar's being as active without live food!

[Fishguy2727]

Use the Jumbo Fish Formula, the 4.5mm floating pellets. This is the one the small cichlids get at my work. Even if they can't eat it at first, they grab it and run around with it while it soaks.

It has everything that is needed. Every trace element, micronutrient, and obviously the macronutrients. For more specific questions about that ask their forum.

I only quote what I know is true from experience, not just what I found from their site that has no backing or does not make sense. (He does seem to take some liberty in some of the things that he says, but most of it is dead on.)

My oscars have always looked better, grown better, and been healthier when on NLS. I had one go from about 2.5" to 5" in about two months and its colors were amazing. It literally sold within five minutes after I put it in the tank at my work. I had another one that when I sold it I told the guy about NLS. He didn't buy it. He got home and saw that one next to his and came back asking for the food I recommended because he saw the difference between his and mine, which had been fed NLS exclusively for months.

Over and over and over the fish fed NLS exclusively are more colorful, healthier, and grow better than those on any other diet. More and more marine people are using it because of how different it is and the difference it makes in their fish, including reef fish and invertebrates. It also cures some parasites. I can't remember who now, but someone on here used the Thera+A (contains garlic) to cure their reef tank of ick (can't use medications in a reef, or very few). I am currently using it on a few new clown loaches that have a few spots of ick.

I say give it a shot and try to ignore the initial color loss and wait for the color to slowly build up (how it happens naturall). It really seems to me that some other foods have things in them that cause significant color improvement not necessarily reflective of their health or the quality of the food.

That is why I asked you to ask those 30+ years experienced experts if they have even tried NLS exclusively. If not them they can't say it isn't good, but only talk about their experience with the diets they have tried.

Personally, I have found that many very experienced people (in this case specifically in fishkeeping) have a tendency to try things until they find one that works, it keeps working, so they are relunctant to try new things because they see nothing wrong with the way they have been doing it for twenty years. It is not the amount of experience but the quality of experience that matters. I have talked to people with 5-10 years of experience but with much better experience than many with 30-50 years of experience. This is why so many people only use Magnum canister filters, UGFs, varied diets, gravel, etc. What they do works, usually very well, but that doesn't mean nothing else is better.

I think people on here, including me, specified that Tetra is not crap. It is a good brand, but not great. I used to use it up until I switched to NLS, that says something (I think). I also know exactly what the difference is between flakes and the number of crisps made by Tetra.

Sample size is exactly why I go by my own experience, plus that of people I have talked to online, customers, and those described on NLS's site.

I have said it before, will say it again, and agree that some of the things on the site (specifically the Nutrition article) are not true, or at least not at all supported or do not make sense. Most of it is dead on, but I try to focus on what the results show, illustrated by the many cases shown on the site.

TetraMin Pro Crisps Ingredients:
Fish Meal, Dried Yeast, Corn Starch, Shrimp Meal, Wheat Gluten, Ground Brown Rice, Potato Protein, Soybean Oil, Dhulled Soybean Meal, FIsh Oil, Dried Skimmed Milk, Sorbitol, Lecithin, Algae Meal, L-Carnitine, Ascorbin Acid, Inositol, Niacin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, A-Tocopherol-Acetate, Riboflavin-5-Phosphate, D-Calcium, Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamine A Palmitate, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Cyanocobalamin, Cholecalciferol, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Colors, Ethoxyquin and Citric Acid as perservatives.

Tetra has added colors, which may explain the quick color gain and loss when it is or is not being fed. Corn, wheat, potato, rice, and milk are not the best ingredients to be in a fish food. The preservatives also bother me. Unless they are only what is required to be in the meals by law (only ethoxyquin from what I understand) then I would not use it.

General NLS ingredients:
Krill, Herring, Wheat flour, Squid, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Spirulina, Beta carotene, Garlic, Vitamins and trace elements.The wheat flour is simply a binding agent (holds the food together). Four natural color enhancers, only ethoxyquin in the meals as required by law. Garlic to help with taste and, depending on the formula and amount, certain parasites. The main protein sources are whole animals, not by-products and scraps left over from what is made for human consumption.

We get bored with one food. We have become used to the most varied diet ever. They have not. They are creatures of habit, hence the difficulty to get many to switch diets. If you feel NLS exclusively is too strict and boring then offer healthy treats at a frequency of once per week to once per month. But effectively all the diet should be NLS to get the best results.

[Nick89]

Ok.. I thank you for explaining each food, and I will try NLS one more time.. But, my question is you think 4.5-5mm is too big for a 2" oscar? I dont want his jaw getting broken or something.. Also how long have you had your oscars on the nls exclusive diet?

[Billythefish]

Freeking heck fishyguy thats the longest post ive ever seen! :hmm3grin2orange:

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I've not read this entire thread from post 1 to post 55, but I have read the last couple of pages and I found about what I expected to find. Let me first start off by saying that I personally do use NLS and I personally think it is the best food on the market, however there are a few that need to be taken into account. In the wild, and Oscar's diet varies with the time of year and thus varies in nutrient content and that is something that one single formula of food (NLS, Hikari, or Tetra) cannot accomplish. During the rainy season, the Oscars live in the rivers and they do eat small fish, however as the dry season comes around and the river levels drop, many many Oscars are trapped in inland pools until the next rainy season. During that dry season they survive by eating worms ,insects and even berries. Do I have a problem with giving Oscars live feeders? No, I don't, but by the same token I don't believe they should be an exclusive food or even a weekly food. Feeders are not exactly nutrient filled, but they do provide an exercise for the Oscar's predetory instinct. While it is possible to give a fish all the nutrients it needs in one single food, it is also possible to do that with a varied diet. It's is not that a varied diet can't accomplish the same thing as NLS, it's that most people don't accomplish it because of their choices for that varied diet. So, do you simply want to throw in a few pellets a couple times a day every day or do you want to switch up the foods you give them every day? Personally, I choose to do the later and I still have great healthy fish that grow and look great. Each fish keeper has to make up their own mind as to what they will do.

[cocoa_pleco]

I dont want to read the last 50+ posts either, but i'll add that i always mixed my oscars food, just like in nature. sometimes i would skip a couple of days, just like in nature. He got hikari every 1-2 days, a few live crickets every 2-3 days, algae wafers every 3 days, frozen food once a week, other assorted pellets every couple of days, and any other food that i could find. I threw in a few grapes and other stuff for my pacus and he ate them too

[Billythefish]

Cocoa Dose your pacu get on with your oscar? Mine hide's all the time

[cocoa_pleco]

Cocoa Dose your pacu get on with your oscar? Mine hide's all the time

oscar died 4 months ago (jumped out of the tank somehow, he was like 13" and i have only 2" in the back for my FX5 hoses, but he jumped out somehow), but they got along fine, they were both raised together from 4" big.

[Nick89]

Cocoa... he was sideways when he jumped out it seems..But yes ive been thinking more about it and I think im going to just keep him on the tetra crisps. He enjoys it and its a decent food and its affordable. Thanks for all the input though.

[Billythefish]

oscar died 4 months ago (jumped out of the tank somehow, he was like 13" and i have only 2" in the back for my FX5 hoses, but he jumped out somehow), but they got along fine, they were both raised together from 4" big.
Man im sorry to hear that:11:
Well i'll give them some time then and see how thay do as thay are so young (oscar3''+pacu1'') thanks

[Nick89]

I just hope you guys who have pacus have tanks larger than 800 gallons..

[cocoa_pleco]

650g acrylic will come when its needed

[Nick89]

650g isnt nearly enough for 1 let alone 2 pacus.. they can ,and will reach 4ft. 800-1000g is prefered and pacus need to be in schools.

[Billythefish]

Im not buying that a pacu will get to 4ft on hikari! I think your thinking more of a wild one that has miles of river to live in!, thay can live in a 250g tank for 10 years and only reach 1ft

[Nick89]

pacu? no no billy.. they can reach 4ft easily in an aquarium no problem. and yes they can reach 4ft on hikari, on wardley on anything. They also need to be in groups, and 250g isnt nearly enough.

[Billythefish]

I think im on about a fish called pacu and your on about a pacus?
Im going to google pacus and see if its the same as mine.

[Nick89]

Pacu and Pacu's is the same thing man.. they get 4ft long, and they can break tanks if they dont have a big enough tank. You need to have a school of them and they need 1000g tanks or more.

[Billythefish]

Im back, there go by pacus and pacu, i have a red belly pacu that can get to 24'' in the wild but only 12'' in a tank, i think your on about the giant pacus that can get to 4ft. Hart attack over :hmm3grin2orange:

[Nick89]

Red Bellied pacus can reach well over 12".. Cocoas is already 15" i think he said.. All pacus, red bellied, black, can all reach 30-48" in an aquarium. to get an idea.. heres a black pacu which get similiar size to the red bellied ones http://www.fishing-worldrecords.com/relaunch/icons2/images/black%20pacu%20record.jpg

[Billythefish]

The black ones are hard to come by and dont live in tanks or thats what i lernt!, befor i got this fish i done research for tank mates for oscar fish And did'nt find one thing that says that a pacu in a 55/75g would get bigger than 1ft, now im worryed! If your right then i'll have to bring it back to my lfs.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Billy, I've personally seen a 30" Red Belly Pacu... in captivity.

[Billythefish]

Billy, I've personally seen a 30" Red Belly Pacu... in captivity.
Jesus!!!, thats a shame ive got to bring it back then i just cant go bigger than 300g, really cool fish to and an excellent swimmer great to watch and its teeth are so funny! , you would think thay would make there possible size known at my lfs errr,
Thank you barb and sorry soxfan its not that i didnt trust you i just didnt want to give it up. :11:

[Fishguy2727]

The big 'black' pcaus in aquariums and zoos are almost always just large red belly pacus. Once they are larger than red belly piranhas (what they mimic when small enough to) they switch from the red to black coloration. I have seen many at 30-36" or more in public aquariums (they usually get them from people who didn't know what they were getting into). Two of mine actually ended up at the National Zoo's Amazonia exhibit. These are fish that are very rarely stunted (which is what is being suggested here). That is extremely unhealthy for the fish. It is not different then keeping a labrador retriever locked up all the time in a dog crate made for a twenty pound dog because you don't want a big lab. Worse foods may slow down the growth and it may not get quite as big. These are the fastest growing anything I have ever worked with. I had one in a 55 with community fish. It would come out and fill up at feeding time. I literally once saw a size difference in 24 hours of one quarter of an inch.

And they are a schooling fish, so yes, you are looking at something thousands of gallons for just a minimally sized school.

[Nick89]

Sorry billy.. I know how you like your fish and youre doing the right thing returning him.. Large skittish fish can break tanks very easily.. Maybe to replace the pacu you could get a Green terror? Those get along well with oscars. But again, its cichlids we're talking about. Highly unpredictable, but id say as long as their the same size, plenty of room (which you have) and some hiding spots then youre set man.

[Incredulous_Ed]

Ive rea dof a lungfish breaking a 200 gallon tank

[Billythefish]

Sorry billy.. I know how you like your fish and youre doing the right thing returning him.. Large skittish fish can break tanks very easily.. Maybe to replace the pacu you could get a Green terror? Those get along well with oscars. But again, its cichlids we're talking about. Highly unpredictable, but id say as long as their the same size, plenty of room (which you have) and some hiding spots then youre set man.
Thanks soxfan and all that have helped make me wise to this situation,
Like i said i did do some reaserch on this
Obviously not as much as i should, i didn't want to try and stunt its growth or harm it in anyway!, i would of got 2 if he wasn't the last one, sorry soxfan for taking your thread of topic and hay ive got two gt's only baby ones but thay are gorgeous!
:laugh1blue:

[Nick89]

Good man glad to hear that.. And nice selection on the Green terrors.. beautiful fish, and they can hold their own too lol. Any pictures of the little guys?

[cocoa_pleco]

650g isnt nearly enough for 1 let alone 2 pacus.. they can ,and will reach 4ft. 800-1000g is prefered and pacus need to be in schools.

they dont need schools, only when they are young they do most are fine alone or in a small school as adults, mine are adults. they will be in the 650g until they outgrow it, and after that a mall here has offered to take them for one of their tanks, either a 2000g or a 25,000g or something to that size. after theyre gone, my 650g will be a reef

[Nick89]

Actually pacus do need to be in schools, and yours isnt an adult yet.. Is he 3-4ft yet? If not then he has much more growing to do..And heres my question.. Why would you buy a fish knowingly, you arent capable of keeping long term? Only buy fish that you have room for, not something thats "eh, hes ok for now". Youre suppose to give the very best for your fish and you arent right now.. Im sorry, i dont mean to sound rude or anything, but its irresponsible.

[cocoa_pleco]

he was raised alone, from 0.5"-4" he was in a 20g alone at the store, he never saw another pacu in his life besides the one i have now, and they dont care about eachother/school. hes always been a loner and he wants to i think. lol

if for some reason the mall cant take him, i have no problem with a 1500g+ tank when hes large, i can afford it and make room for it, as long as i can find a acrylic company willing to do it

[Billythefish]

Now now ladys lmao, here soxfan i got a picture uploaded that i took the other day of my gt, http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishpictures/oto.php?photo=59428limit=recent

[cocoa_pleco]

Now now ladys lmao, here soxfan i got a picture uploaded that i took the other day of my gt, http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishpictures/oto.php?photo=59428limit=recent:hmm3grin2orange:

i get the oops! a piranha ate your page thing. lol

[LosC]

I'm sure the PAcu isn't stressed at the moment in the 650g. It will be an emotional good-bye tho.

[Commodore 64]

Actually pacus do need to be in schools, and yours isnt an adult yet.. Is he 3-4ft yet? If not then he has much more growing to do..And heres my question.. Why would you buy a fish knowingly, you arent capable of keeping long term? Only buy fish that you have room for, not something thats "eh, hes ok for now". Youre suppose to give the very best for your fish and you arent right now.. Im sorry, i dont mean to sound rude or anything, but its irresponsible.

If there is one thing that bothers me about this forum, it is the prevalence of self-righteousness among many of the members. There's no problem with him , or anyone else for that matter, growing a fish for a few years and giving it to someone else.

Also, I have a friend who works at the Akron zoo, and we used to work at Sea World of Ohio together. They had 3 pacus there, that originated as donations from aquarium enthusiasts. Are you telling me that these Pacus would have been better off, never purchased...dying in a 5 gallon LFS aquarium 30 years ago (that's how old they are)?

[Dave66]

If there is one thing that bothers me about this forum, it is the prevalence of self-righteousness.

There's no problem with him , or anyone else for that matter, growing a fish for a few years and giving it to someone else.

Also, I have a friend who works at the Akron zoo, and we used to work at Sea World of Ohio together. They had 3 pacus there, that originated as donations from aquarium enthusiasts. Are you telling me that these Pacus would have been better off, never purchased...dying in a 5 gallon LFS aquarium 30 years ago (that's how old they are)?

Commodore,
Fish like Pacus, Helicopter and Red Tail Cats, Tiger Shovelnose cats and several others appear in stores on a consistent basis despite that the vast majority of fishkeepers have no chance nor the quarters to keep for the full lifetime of the fish. Truly, they have no business buying such an animal and they wouldn't, if people did research first instead of buying with their eyes.
And forget them dying in a 5-gallon aquarium in a fish store. They'll be dying in some confused fish keeper's 10-gallon tank.
If people stopped buying them they wouldn't be sold. If people did their research on a species BEFORE buying it, they'd make proper choices in livestock.
But that's not going to happen. Red tail cats will still be sold because someone thinks that 2-inch baby is 'cute', which it is. And they'll be shocked when all their other aquarium fish go down it's gullet, followed by the heater clips, rocks, gravel, and your fingers if you get too close. THEN they'll look them up and learn they grow close to four feet long.
Most people would rather be boiled in oil than check a reference book before buying a certain fish. They will continue to buy fish with their eyes, not their heads, and woe betide them and their fish.
Interesting the Akron Zoo takes donations of discarded aquarium fish. Took me nearly six months to find one to take my six 16-inch clown loaches several years ago. Was told by many they didn't take fish from private aquariums.

Dave

[Billythefish]

Just to say i didnt buy with my eyes i did do research and still cant fined nothing that say's the pecu would grow bigger than a foot in a home tank!, but i now know thanks to a.c members that thay can get to be 4ft, all im saying is people can buy fish with there heads and still make mistakes, We are only human!, my pecus/pecu was bought on the strenth of it being a good tank mate for my oscar so doing good in one way and not in the other, its all about lerning from your mistakes in this game.

[Fishguy2727]

Definitely a constant learning process. My first two pacus were bought for a 29 because I was told that they would grow according to the space provided. A couple months later (not long at all) there were two 9" pacus in my 29.

They need to come out with a safe product that stops growth, call it 'Insta-Stunt'. Just one treatment at the size you want a fish to stop growing at and bingo! your pacu stays 5", your redtail cat stays 10", your arowana stays 15", what ever size they are when you treat them, they stay.

Some aquariums and zoos will take donations, others will but are full (don't need only pacus in the aquarium or only burmese pythons in the zoo), others won't go privately at all.

They huge pacus at the National Zoo definitely school together. Not all fish are the same. Some tetras won't school and I think we can all agree that they are schooling fish. If they are raised separately or are just the rare individual that won't, they may not. But in general pacus will school. The other thing is that in smaller tanks or tanks they are settled in to very well, they may feel no need to school or be close enough together (even at opposite ends of the tank) that they don't need to be right next to each other to feel safe (the point of a school).

I think people that are going by facts may come across self-righteous when talking with someone who is not willing to accept the overall trend because their one situation didn't support it. At the very least they should clarify the trends for others reading the thread even if the person they are talking with never acknowledges the situation. This comes off as argumentative or self-righteous, when in most cases they are just trying to share facts in spite of people questioning them. Then they provide supporting facts and are looked at as argumentative, hostile, or just trying to start arguments. In forums people should share facts, even if someone else questions, and really ESPECIALLY when someone else questions them. If we avoid sharing information in relevant conversations because maybe someone will look at it as hostile then we can't advance at all.

[Billythefish]

[QUOTE=Fishguy2727]Definitely a constant learning process. My first two pacus were bought for a 29 because I was told that they would grow according to the space provided. A couple months later (not long at all) there were two 9" pacus in my 29.

They need to come out with a safe product that stops growth, call it 'Insta-Stunt'. Just one treatment at the size you want a fish to stop growing at and bingo! your pacu stays 5", your redtail cat stays 10", your arowana stays 15", what ever size they are when you treat them, they stay.
:[QUOTE]:


It would be nice wouldn't it, on the other hand it would also be nice if pet stores/lfs ask you to prove your tank size and only sell fish that would be compaterble, or maybe when you buy your tank it could come with a certificat that you could use for proving you could house big fish at pet stores/lfs

[Nick89]

If there is one thing that bothers me about this forum, it is the prevalence of self-righteousness among many of the members. There's no problem with him , or anyone else for that matter, growing a fish for a few years and giving it to someone else.

Also, I have a friend who works at the Akron zoo, and we used to work at Sea World of Ohio together. They had 3 pacus there, that originated as donations from aquarium enthusiasts. Are you telling me that these Pacus would have been better off, never purchased...dying in a 5 gallon LFS aquarium 30 years ago (that's how old they are)?


Im only trying to say that if you buy a fish thats capable of getting very large then you should have the appropriate size tank for one. I didn't mean to say cocoa was irresponsible, more like what he plans to do with his pacu is a little irresponsible. Also if you have a problem with a member then please write it in a pm. Im only trying to help people out.

[Fishguy2727]

If you have plans for them it is fine. If I know someone with a huge pond, I can put koi in my 75 or 150. If I know someone who wants to breed rays and I want to put one in my 150 to grow out and then sell it to him, I can do that. I don't necessarily need to be able to deal with the animal personally to be very responsible about what I buy.

[Commodore 64]

Interesting the Akron Zoo takes donations of discarded aquarium fish. Took me nearly six months to find one to take my six 16-inch clown loaches several years ago. Was told by many they didn't take fish from private aquariums.

Dave

Sorry for the ambiguity, the fish were given to Sea World of Ohio over 30 years ago. The 3 of them lived at Sea World while it was open. I was in landscaping there, but we used to visit the Pacus every day. We called one, "the Brain" because he had an enormous head.

I don't think the fish reside at the Akron Zoo now. The Akron Zoo is incidental to the story, I don't know why I mentioned it except that my friend works there now. He knows where The Brain and his counterparts went though, I should call him (as I haven't talked to him in over a year) and figure out where they went. I know they went somewhere when Sea World closed...

[MCHRKiller]

First off folks we must realize that there are thousands of these fish sold every day, and maybe 1 out of a million sold pacu actually find somebody that can give them a halfway decent sized tank. And we must also realize that these fish have zero place in the hobby. I know my walmart probably stocks and sells atleast 100 or more pacu a week...but their largest tank kit is a 55G. I personally think its a wonderful thing that this guy is giving his pacu a 650G tank and IMO they will lead the best existence that they can in the home aquarium in that tank. Of course they wont be housed as they would be in the wild...but really NO fish regardless of size is housed in such a way. The Pacu are in im sure very capable hands :)

[kaybee]

New Life Spectrum (NLS) Pellets

I've been using this product for over three years (fed exclusively at first and nowadays supplementary). And it's been a great product, both as a source of nutrition and color enhancement.

NLS is the only company I am aware of which will gurantee noticeable color and vitality improvment within 10 days or your money back (with the condition that the fish have been fed NLS exclusively during that period). It's unfortunate the trial in this thread was unable continue for more than a few days.

The most noticeable improvements I've had were with a group of 'dingy' electric yellow labs I acquired. They went from dingy to extremely vibrant within a week (and this is after I had them for a couple of months on another type of food). I've also noticed the red of my flame hawkfish is better than nearly all the flame hawkfish I've seen at LFS's.

Having said that, it's been my observation that this product works best with fish which haven't (for some reason or another) attained their full potential of coloration. So dulled colored Fish A can become super colorful Fish A. However, Super Colorful Fish B will remain Super colorful Fish B, rather than become Super Duper Colorful Fish B. Also, naturally uncolorful fish won't suddenly become dazzling (a dark wood colored pleco which is supposed to be that color will most likely remain dark wood colored).

I have found that once maximum color vibrance is attained, feeding NLS exclusively isn't a necessary (nowadays I use it as a supplement for my mbunas rather than as a main-stay).

Finally, I haven't tried every single brand of food, so there are likely other quality products out there which can probably achieve the same results.

[ladyoutlaw50]

New Life Spectrum (NLS) Pellets

I've been using this product for over three years (fed exclusively at first and nowadays supplementary). And it's been a great product, both as a source of nutrition and color enhancement.

NLS is the only company I am aware of which will gurantee noticeable color and vitality improvment within 10 days or your money back (with the condition that the fish have been fed NLS exclusively during that period). It's unfortunate the trial in this thread was unable continue for more than a few days.

The most noticeable improvements I've had were with a group of 'dingy' electric yellow labs I acquired. They went from dingy to extremely vibrant within a week (and this is after I had them for a couple of months on another type of food). I've also noticed the red of my flame hawkfish is better than nearly all the flame hawkfish I've seen at LFS's.

Having said that, it's been my observation that this product works best with fish which haven't (for some reason or another) attained their full potential of coloration. So dulled colored Fish A can become super colorful Fish A. However, Super Colorful Fish B will remain Super colorful Fish B, rather than become Super Duper Colorful Fish B. Also, naturally uncolorful fish won't suddenly become dazzling (a dark wood colored pleco which is supposed to be that color will most likely remain dark wood colored).

I have found that once maximum color vibrance is attained, feeding NLS exclusively isn't a necessary (nowadays I use it as a supplement for my mbunas rather than as a main-stay).

Finally, I haven't tried every single brand of food, so there are likely other quality products out there which can probably achieve the same results.

I switched to NLS with all my cichlids about 3 weeks ago and already my johannis look amazing!! The blue is very vibrant now!! I can say my fish love it and get all excited when it is feeding time.

[Evil Slimy]

I'm sure NLS is high quality food, but given that, having fish color up is not a miracle. You can feed cheapo flakes and add any food with beta-carotene (which is what NLS includes) and your fish will color up. While they are related I think it's dangerous to equate it so closely with food quality or a complete nutrition.

[MCHRKiller]

My only problem with NLS is they proclaim their food to be the miracle food for hobbyists and to me that just isnt halfway true. They have a pretty good dry fish food going, Ill give them that. But even with that I wouldnt say their product is more high quality than foods like Omega One, Sera, and Hikari. Point being its a dry fish food...a staple for fish keepers to ensure that their fish receive crucial nutrients. It honestly is nothing more in my books. I have reared some dazzling fish on a staple of really cheap pellets, because I never use food as the bulk of the diet. My fish are fed such a wide variety of foods that they are most definatly getting their nutrients for all diffrent locations....things like fresh seafoods, fresh veggies and heck even frozen fish foods shouldnt be cast off as simply not needed because they really add so much to the health and vitality of ones fish. Also if ones fish is healthy they will have nice color when mature.

[Fishguy2727]

MCHRKiller:
Have you tried NLS exclusively? For how long? If not you can't say it is no better than other high quality brands. Theoretically it is not, but the results prove optherwise. I used variety a lot, and leaned mainly on Hikari, before I used NLS. I see a big difference between the results I got with Hikari and variety, and what I get with NLS.

Color is not the only thing that a good food produces. The four different natural color enhancers in NLS are part of what makes it good, but it is about the whole diet, not just a couple ingredients. With lots of variety you are bascially getting a bunch of main ingredients. You are doubling up on sources of protein and other macronutrients and it is just redundancy. But what about the micronutrients and trace elements? Unless you are using a powdered supplement to make your food or rely heavily on high quality pellets as most of the diet (well over half the diet), you are missing these vital nutrients. NLS provides these.

I have read through all the information on NLS's website and found no claim to be a miracle food, could you point it out for me? I have talked to some people who have this attitude, and some would say I do, but the company itself does not claim to be miraculous. If I remember correctly they even mention something about that and state it is not miraculous, but I may be wrong.

The goal is a complete and balanced diet. Many feel this can't be done with a single food. But NLS is not a single food, it is a formula with many ingredients. If you took your superior variety diet and put it all together in one pellet, would it be any worse? No, actually it would be better because many nutrients are absorbed and function better when consumed in conjunction with other certain nutrients. So although it may all be there in a 'variety diet', if they are not fed at the same time they can't work as well.

[Evil Slimy]

If you took your superior variety diet and put it all together in one pellet, would it be any worse?
I don't know how pellets are made, but doesn't making it into a pellet imply that the food is processed and cooked?

[Fishguy2727]

That does not necessarily mean they are degraded. Depending on how they are made they can destroy some of the nutrition, but NLS is great. Processed does not equal inferior.

[MCHRKiller]

I manage the fish section of a LFS...and the first few weeks I worked there all the fish were fed exclusively on NLS...including our display fish. Ive since switched them to more of what I feed my own fish and they look alot better than they did on the NLS alone, and they have greater intrest in the feeding and are more active than they were.

IMO, NLS does imply that their food is a miracle food. Its evident to me with the ads and claims as well as people who have bought into their product. Now Im not saying that NLS isnt a good dry food...because it is. But thats just it, its a good dry food.

So many nutrients are lost once that can is open, the last feeding will never be as nutritous as the first. I agree that one should use a high quality dry food as a staple to their fishes diet to get the essential trace elements and micronutrients but...I also advocate diversity of food and will continue to advocate that no fish food can provide 100% of what any animal requires. I have never stated that NLS isnt a good brand, it is a good brand of dry fish food.

To me my varied diet wouldnt work in one pellet. Because I feed most of my foods raw...to preserve them they would need to be cooked in one way or another, and cooking them looses alot of nutritional value. So yes I think it would be worse. I look at how each one of my fish feeds in the wild and base their diet on that.

My predatory fish get alot of fresh seafoods as well as dry foods geared toward them, as well as a the occasional bit of vegatation as they would be eating the gut matter of other fish when they ate them as well. My omnivores get about equal bits of fresh seafood, fresh veggies and a good staple. I do soak my fresh foods in Nourish by seachem for an added shot of vitamins and when I make my own frozen food I add a bunch of pre-natal vitamins as well as using good ingredients to start with.

[Fishguy2727]

So they were only on it a few weeks?

Have you improved water quality while you have been there?

Keep the can sealed when not getting food out, don't leave it in the light, don't leave it in the heat (on top of your light), and keep it dry, you will lose VERY little nutrition. Keep the extra in the fridge and you lose even less.

Their ads are nice and simple. A picture of fish fed it exclusively for years. Other brands get pictures of nice looking fish, may not have ever been fed that food. But we see it and think it will make our fish look like that. At least NLS puts pictures of fish that are actually fed that food. What ads are you talking about?

And you can definitely not blame the company or hold it against them because some people out there use their product and the results are so amazing they think it is a miracle food. If anything that says something for the company. Most companies make their product out to be miraculous yet the results fall short of this. The best products are sold and spread via word of mouth, and this company gets that word of mouth because the product proves its value.

If you have everything they need even though it is not raw, have you really lost anything? The results simply prove it has not destroyed too many nutrients.

You can advocate that variety is essential and that no food can do it alone, but that does not make it true. This food has proven over and over it can. The owner has a 2,000 gallon tank that has been fed it exclusively for ten years now. Many types of saltwater fish from all over the world and all sorts of natural diets THRIVING on NLS exclusively for years.

I ask two things: Do some more research on it (I am not sure what all you have done). I wrote an article on it in my blog, please give it a read. If you have not, check out their nutrition article, testimonials, and video. Some of the claims in the Nutrition article are unsupported and he does take some liberty with a few of his claims, but most of it is sound and true. More information won't hurt at all.

The second thing I ask is to run a good trial. Either at home or at work, take a tank and set it up with some of the same fish you have in a tank being fed your usual diet. Feed this new tank NLS exclusively for four months. I feel this is the actual needed time for a trial period to really see what NLS can do.

[Nick89]

Yea.... well im going to keep going with the NLS for my oscar. Hes been on it exclusively (other than trying to eat my plecos hikari wafers, he nips at it as it falls lol) for about a week now. Really enjoys it.

[ladyoutlaw50]

I think everybody has their favorites for whatever reason!! I am giving the NLS a good 2 month try -- so far my guys seem to enjoy it and I have noticed that my johanni is a much nicer more vibrant blue -- I can't say whether that is from the food or what -- but will give it another month -- I do give them peas once a week as well.:11:

[Nick89]

Remember lady, good food and good water quality gives the best results for fish growth and coloration, but could i see a picture of your fish? Would be nice to see i bet.

[MCHRKiller]

The fish at my LFS were fed exclusively on it for probably a year or so. The display fish are a community of africans, an angel/discus community, 2 tanks of large fish and a grow out of oscars. They were healthy being fed the NLS...but since the change to a more varied diet they have improved in vigor and food response. The owner used to keep up his display tanks so they havent improved alot as far as water quality as theirs was always in good shape. The stock tanks however are another story, as the fish netters kept those up ;)

I will honestly always believe that your fish would benefit from being fed something else along with the NLS, I am confident it does meet your fish's requirements, but so do alot of other fish foods. I cannot say its the best food out there for them because I dont believe it is. To me, what Ive seen from NLS it has yielded no better results than Hikari for me.

[ladyoutlaw50]

Remember lady, good food and good water quality gives the best results for fish growth and coloration, but could i see a picture of your fish? Would be nice to see i bet.


here are a couple pics that were taken just a few days ago

[Fishguy2727]

I hope you understand that your experience does not match mine or many other NLS users'. I can deifnitely speak for Hikari since I used it SOO much before NLS.

Could you explain your diet in total, since you do seem to have something in the realm of the best diet possible at this time. So that the people who don't or cannot use NLS have a great (second) option.

[MCHRKiller]

Ive never intended to imply that what I use is going to be the best for everyone, mine comes from a past of breeding discus and steering away from dry foods as much more than a staple. Some peoples fish probably wont take to it and some may actually see better results with the NLS for whatever reason. I would glady use NLS as a base for my fish if they made something a bit larger, heck I think Hikari's Massivore is way to small for what its intended for.

Most of my fish's diet comes from my grocery store, I buy prawns, tilapia fillets and whitefish. These are either fed in chunks or ground to make my frozen food mix. I will take the previously mentioned seafoods and some fresh spinach also ground, add a can of tetra color flakes and some plain gelatin and mix it all together and put in a ziplock bag and let it freeze flat. To that I also add some pre-natal vitamins and sometimes I may add some beefheart, apple, carrot, or mussle. I dont measure my ingrediates so I cant give you alot as far as specifics. My large fish are fed 2X a week on a mix of Hikari large staple pellets, sinking gold, and massivore. They are fed once a week on fresh seafoods soaked in Nourish, and then they have a treat day of either the frozen food or some fresh veggies, or some frozen krill fish food. The diet for my smaller community tanks are very similar.

[Fishguy2727]

Honestly it does not sound much different than a well-formulated pellet (besides the actual texture).

I agree with the Massivore Delite, I couldn't believe how small they were when I first saw them. They need something at least as big as Algae Wafers, that is what so many bottom feeders eat because it fits right.

NLS needs more variety in sizes and floating versus sinking. They need larger pellets and every size should come in both sinking and floating. There are so many people I can't sell their great pellets to because, like almost everyone, they have gravel and the pellets are too small.

I told the owner of NLS this and he gave an answer that showed he had no intention of doing it. Honestly, if his food wasn't so freakin' amazing his attitude would have lost this customer.

[MCHRKiller]

2 schools of thought I suppose. My fish seem to benefit from variety be it texture or content they appreciate it and it to me supplements an already good base.

I agree, the first bag of the massivore I bought I expected something atleast the size of a large algae disk but its not much rounder than their largest pellet. My 11" oscars suck in 2-3 of the massivore at a time I couldnt imagine a 2ft RTC finding much interest in it for example. I may switch my small planted community over to NLS as their base to see if I personally notice a diffrence tho.