Important for all fishkeepers, Water Changes

[Fishguy2727]

Let me know what you guys think. Please ask any questions or post any comments you may come up with.

Large, Frequent Water Changes:

I used to buy into the mindset that big water changes will screw things up, like your nitrifying bacteria cultures or the pH, stuff like that. But in fact they help and are now one indispensable aspect of my fish care. Water changes won’t affect your nitrifying bacteria colonies.

The nitrifying bacteria live ON surfaces in the water, not IN the water column itself. The only thing they use the water column itself for is to spread (from the gravel bed, to the tank wall, to the biological filter, to the surface of the plants, etc). So you could (and I have) do 100% water changes and have absolutely no ill effect to your biological filtration. And as for pH, that’s only a concern if your tap isn’t good for your fish. Over time different things build up in the water that will change the pH. For example nitrates form nitric acid and therefore lower your pH over time. So big frequent water changes help keep the pH closer to your tap water's, so when the water changes are done there is little or no difference in tank and tap pH, whereas if you do smaller and/or less frequent water changes the pH in the tank may shift and therefore it will be a bigger change in pH when you do the water change.

The main reason to do big frequent water changes is to help dilute problematic chemicals. Nitrates are a big issue with fish. You may hear not to let them go over 40ppm or something to that effect, but that just means at MOST. But really the lower the better. As an analogy: sometimes there are limits to certain chemicals in the air for humans. So if it is bad to go outside if chemical X is over 20ppm, it still isn’t good for you if they are just below that, the lower the better. So the lower you can keep the nitrates, the better for the fish. Nitrates slowly stress fish over time and can lead to decreased growth, health, and general ability to thrive. So the lower you can keep them the better. There are other dissolved organic compounds that also affect fish in the same way.

The other chemicals that are of concern are growth-inhibiting hormones that inhibit the growth of the same or sometimes similar species. The fish give these off and is evidenced by tanks with varying sized angelfish. The smallest ones are not growing in part due to the growth inhibiting hormones in the water. In nature this is good because it gives the big individuals more time to breed and produce more young before other individuals are big enough to compete with them for that right. So big frequent water changes keeps these growth inhibiting hormones to a minimum. In nature when the dry season hits, the volumes of water drop, concentrating all these chemicals even more, reducing growth, and the bigger the fish the more waste, so in nature no one needs to be growing in the dry season and therefore producing even more waste in these ever decreasing bodies of water. So it makes it ever so slightly more likely that more fish make it through the dry season. So, the bigger and more frequent water changes, the less like the dry season.

In order to breed, the fish have to be thriving, and many if not most breeders rely on water changes to help keep their fish in the absolute best condition possible. I am on well water so my tap can go straight into the tanks. It is easy to bring pH up, but it is very hard to bring it down. For my African cichlid tank I add the proper lake salts and buffer right when I start to fill the tank again so that they are dissolved as it is filled. If you need it down from your tap, you need to have it ready before the water change. This is why I carry out and highly recommend big frequent water changes at or about the rate of 50-75% weekly.

I tried this new water change schedule and what I thought was thriving before, was pretty good, but it was not thriving. I saw greatly improved growth rate, max size, coloration, fewer health problems at all, and a general increased ability to thrive.

[f1oored]

Brother you are writing articles today lol.

What I want to know is how do you have time to change the water on 11 tanks at 50% - 75% each week. On your 150 gallon tank alone that would be close to 100 gallons of water every week (almost 5000 gallons a year). It just seems like it would take all day to do this.

Look I'm not saying that doing large water changes isn't good for the fish but it seems like too much work and it seems unnecessary. I live in the city and have to pay for my water. I don't have as many tanks as you but at 75% weekly changes that would add another 250 gallons to my water bill each month. I know nitrates aren't good for fish but low levels aren't overly harmful either. If you are super serious about keeping and breeding fish your way is great, but for the average person with their 20 gallon tank with half a dozen tetras is this really necessary?

Please don't get upset, I'm just playing the devils advocate here. There is no doubt that your water quality is and will always be better than mine.

[Slinky_Bass]

I'd love to know how you have the time (and the energy) for all those water changes too! I just do 20% with one tank and by the end of it I'm pooped from carrying those heavy buckets.

Do you have any particular method that you use whe you do large changes, and any particular schedule for gravel cleaning and filter changes. If so, add them in.

What I find really interesting though is your mention of growth inhibiting hormones. I think that it deserves an article of it's own and definitely more research. Have you seen a definite correlation between the size of your fish and the amount of water changed? How long have you been using your large water change schedule and do you do it cosnsistently from fry to adulthood.

Have there been any official studies/experiments into this and what were the results? What exactly stimulates the release of growth inhibiting hormones? What you mentioned about fish in nature and the need for the hormone makes sense. But a tank is most definitely an artificial environment, so why do they still release it?

I've asked you a fair amount of questions about this, but only because what you've written has really sparked my interest. I enjoy researching thing like this, and if you'd like I could help :)

[Cichlid_Man]

I tried large water changes weekly and ran into some issues like PH swings, etc.
I have a 75 gallon tank, and what I found works best for me and the fish is a 10 gallon water change every other day.
It takes literally minutes and it doesn't change water chemistry at all.
My tank is crystal clear.
One thing I make sure to do is EVERY week is my filter maintenance.
I remove all the filter floss but leave the ceramic rings in place never to be touched or changed.

But as I said...it is whatever works best for you.
Maybe because I am on well water things go whacky with large water changes???

10 gallons a day, every other day.

[Lady Hobbs]

I have 4 tanks myself but not large ones. I have a 10, 20, 30 and 55 and about to add another 55. (If all goes as planned, one more high tank will be added in a few months but then no more room for me.)

I change about 50% of my water weekly and do the gravel cleaning on my 4 tanks. I have done more. I also use the old pail and haul method but live in a small apartment so carrying the buckets isn't a long haul. If I had a ways to carry the buckets or huge tanks I would get a Python gravel cleaner that goes right from the tank to the sink.

My fish had ICK one time and that was from a new fish I added without quarantining as I should have. I do add one or 2 t. of Stress Zyme each week after my water changes but it hasn't been necessary. It's just something I do.

I do want to add here that I do 50% changes on my little 10 and 20 gallon due to the concentration of the water in small tanks but not this much on my 55 gallon. More like 30%.

I've never had algae, either. I also don't pay for my water! That makes a big difference. When I see my fish swimming back and forth and having a high old time after these water changes, I know they like it and are happy so I will continue to do so. I see no ill effects from large water changes at all.

[Fishguy2727]

I think that if you have anything more than one 10 gallon tank, you should invest in a python system. It is one of those things that once you get used to it, you look back at the old way and think, "Did I really used to do it that way?". I use a python and total my water changes take about 5 hours a week. However I am down to fewer tanks now, but the 5 hours was at the peak with 11 tanks.

Even though the fish are in a tank and not the wild, they are still the fish they were (or their grandparents or so on were) in the wild. So the same physiology is still in effect. I have been doing this water change schedule for about nine months or so. Everything mentioned improves greatly, the growth, coloration, overall health. So it really does help them a lot to do this type of water change schedule.

If there are pH issues and your tap isn't good for your tank, you need to emply the use of buffers. My 150 needs some bufferifn to keep it at 8.2. My discus tank also needs soem to keep it down to 6.5.

250 gallons a month isn't that much, what is that like 4 un-rushed showers? This is how I get the fastest growth. I had a goldfish go from about 2 inches to baseball size in about 4 months with this water change schedule. I also got the biggest platies I have ever seen, many of those were bred by me so they always got this water change schedule and they grew like weeds. What this tells me is that something about the smaller water changes is inhibitng their growth, which is bad for them. So I do my best to avoid this.

I don't know of any publishes research on the subject, but I would guess that once the fish hits maturity it starts releasing the hormones to keep the other fish from getting there, which allow sthem to spend the most time as a breeder before the other reach that size/maturity level.

As said even though the nitrates may be low, they are still bad. They may not have immediate observable consequences to the fish, but they have long term consequences such as a weakened immune system, slower growth, lower max size, subdued coloration, and shorter lifespan.

Just so everyone knows, I like people who play devil's advocate, I am usually the one doing it. If I can't support my theories uner questioning, maybe they're not that right. It is also a good way to learn new things that you wouldn't have if you hadn't questioned them.

[kimmers318]

For some the python is a great thing...my husband loves it, but for me it is more of a PITA (pain in the a**) because my tanks are smaller, and not close together. Turning the water flow off on the hose makes it leak at the faucet and then pressure starts building etc. His 90 and 75 gallon are right on top of each other so it is convenient for him. I have 5 gal jugs that I fill at the tap in advance....start my water changes and fill as I get done with one.

[Lady Hobbs]

I am about 5 feet from my front door and in the winter months head from the sink which is 12 feet away. Not a big problem for me, either. What IS a problem is when I walk away and the hose comes out of the pail and ol' Hobbs is off doing something else. LOL

[Lady Hobbs]

I would like to add something here for newbies regarding these big water changes. What works for me and works for reptileguy or works for someone else, does not mean it will work for you.

I doubt I would ever recommend to a newbie to change half their tank of water each week. I think you should listen to what you've been told to do on the hundreds of sites thru- out the net, by people who have kept fish for 40 years, breeders, etc. As you get more experienced you can experiment more in what may work for you and try different things.

For me, I tend to over- feed my fish at times and I also give them fresh vegtables and that sullies up the water more than someone who doesn't do these things.

Different fish have different needs, as well. Some are more delicate and demand perfect water conditions at all times like discus and angelfish for one. Other types are more hardly, tougher fish and don't require nearly as much work.

So listen and read and take advice from everywhere and put it all together and come up with what you feel is best. No matter what you decide to do, just do some water changes each week! That's the important thing.

[Abbeys_Mom]

This may be a kind of side note, for those who don't have Pythons. You can build your own. My homemade one is 30 feet and cost me $6. I bought a garden hose and an attachment for filling water beds. If the garden hose isn't to your liking for a dollar or two more you can buy the same tubing they use for the python and put ends on it. I was able to change the water in all 8 of my tanks in less then an hour. (55g, 33g, 3-10g, 5g, 2.5, .5g). Now that I just have a 10g I am back to the 2-5g water bottles ( the kind that sit on water coolers). I keep one for dirty water and one for clean. I personally am going to try larger water changes in my 10g for a bit. I'd hate to think my fish would be stunted, even if they are dwarf gouramis :)

[Cichlid_Man]

I do use a Python and wouldn't change my water any other way.
The best thing I found out there, at least for me. I hava a utility sink in my laundry room and keep it hooked up all the time.


Now, about buffers...

I would much rather do a 75% change each week than do my 10 or 12 gallons every other day, but as I mentioned, my well water throws me one hell of a curve when I take out a lot at once.

I invested in a product called proper PH (not the acne cream :-)), and it is awesome, except it will drive me broke.

It automatically sets your PH to 8.2 designed especially for cichlid tanks, but as I said, an 8 ounce jar of powder was like 12 bucks!

I have cruched coral substrate and limestone and tuffa, but when I do a large water change, it takes time before those things raise the PH back up.

Anything else cheaper out there as buffers?
What about the home recipe of epsom salts and baking soda??

How much do you use???

[Lady Hobbs]

Have you checked online? I know the master test kits in the store here is $44 and I get mine thru PetSmart for $13. Same darned thing, too.

[f1oored]

Proper pH 8.2 is 8 bucks on petsmart.com. You should ask the buffer question in the cichlid forum because I want to know too but it's rude to hijack threads.

[Fishguy2727]

You can try experimenting in a 5 gallon bucket to see what you need to do to get your water buffered. Worst case you can get a big rubbermaid type deal and get the water ready in there (possibly with a pile of buffering rocks) then just use a pump to pump it into the tank. This would work best if you have anearby area to store the rubbermiad. Definitely get a good low price online and take it to Petsmart. I'm pretty sure they match any price, not just their online price. Online you may also be able to find larger quantities, possibly of another brand. Obviously it will be more expensive initially, but per weight it should be cheaper.

Newbies should be able to do this as long as they are good about temp and pH, but it would be easier for a newbie to screw this up. no offense.

Definitely try screwing with your water's pH in a bucket. If you can get to know it (What it comes out at, how it shifts over time if left alone, how fast buffers willl change it and how much you need to change it to the right pH, etc.) it could be invaluable to you and your fish. Baking soda doesn't have much buffering, so it may get it up there, but won't hold it there. However if you have other things buffering it up there, it may be fine. Yet something else to try in the bucket.

For the python spraying out at the sink when you shut it off, try hanging a handkerchief or washcloth over it. The spray will hit that and drain into the sink.

[William]

I would like to add some words to this as well. I agree with Hobbs on this. Large water changes works well for many and can be almost a necessity in some cases. However beginners should use this technique with caution. Until they have a basic understanding of how the aquarium works biologically and chemically. Since they might have to prepare the water and it is more important that they get it right if they make a large exchange than a small exchange. It's also important to know about the quality of water in your area if you want to use this method.

In short: This technique should be used with caution by beginners as even if it has it's benefits and can do a lot of good it can also cause more damage if one makes mistakes while using it.

A little new water with the wrong/different pH / temp causes less stress than a lot of new water the wrong/different pH / temp.

[Cichlid_Man]

Proper pH 8.2 is 8 bucks on petsmart.com. You should ask the buffer question in the cichlid forum because I want to know too but it's rude to hijack threads.

Hello f1oored,
I edited this post 3 times so as to NOT sound rude. I just want to clear things up.
I was just responding to the original thread bt Reptileguy about 75% water changes, then the topic changed to the pros and cons of having a python, then I asked the buffer question because it directly had to do with water changes, which WAS the original topic.

Anyway, this is a great place and I feel the thread was informative, especially when William posted his opinion on large water changes. I will now think twice before doing any large water changes.

Besides, Buffer questions are more of a technical issue rather than a cichlid question.
People without cichlids do buffer their water also.

Hope I wasn't rude...like I said, this is a great place.

[Fishguy2727]

I think William's main point was that newbies don't have enough of an understanding about water chemistry and all the biology involved to safely do them. That it is easier for a newbie to overlook something. It seemed like his main point was to wait until you have an understanding of the biological processes and the chemistry, then it shoudl be safe to do big water changes, not that it should be left to long term very experienced hobbyists.

[Cichlid_Man]

Hi reptileguy,
I know what he was saying and I wasn't disagreeing with you about 75% water changes. Going back to what I said before, for me they aren't feasible because of the PH problem I have. I would have to pre-treat the water before adding back to the tank and that I can't do.
If I take out 75% of my water, when I replace it, the PH would drop from 8.2 to about 6.4. Then I would add buffers to re-adjust it. That is not good for the fish. Too much of a shock I would think.

The reason why I re-posted was actually to clear things up with F1oored.

He thought talking about buffers should be in the Cichlid part of the forum and I was just explaining how your original post expanded into different areas, and that is a good thing!

No harm done...
Whatever works is the right thing to do.
For me, I find I can change out about 30% without changing water chemistry.
Any more than that and things "whack out"

Be cool! Talk later!

[Fishguy2727]

Have you tried experimenting with it yet? Adding some to a bucket and seeing how long it takes for buffer to adjust it. It may not be as bad as it seems.

[Cichlid_Man]

Have you tried experimenting with it yet? Adding some to a bucket and seeing how long it takes for buffer to adjust it. It may not be as bad as it seems.

I did try that and the proper PH adjusts the water immediately.

I am worried about the water going into the tank that is 6.4 PH.

It takes me a good half hour to get 35 gallons of water back into the tank using my well.

During that timeframe the PH of the water in the tank is dropping. So, what I am saying is, the fish will experience a PH drop from 8.2 to about 6.4, then it will shoot right back up to 8.2 with the proper PH.

Kind of a drastic change.

Maybe if I were to do two 30 % changes weekly instead of one, I probably would be getting nearly the same results as one big 75% change.

I still think I do not have much to worry about since the water chemistry is good. I am showing zero nitrite and ammonia and my nitrate is only 5ppm.

[Fishguy2727]

So, do you add the proper pH once the tank is full again? I add the buffer and salt once I am done draining, this way as the water is being added it is immediately buffered. Not all of the buffer dissolves instantly, so I put it so what does sit on the bottom, sits right where the water is coming in, ensuring it is adjusted immediately.

[Cichlid_Man]

I didn't think I could add the buffer before the water was added.

The water that remains in the tank before the water is added has the right PH, etc.

I pre-dissolve my salt and buffer. If I added it to the water that doesn't need it, the salt and PH would be way off till I re-filled the tank. That takes a half hour.

I don't know. I'm good the way I am for now unless something drastic happens and I need to drain off large quantities of water.

If my tap water was better quality I wouldn't hesitate, but I don't want to jeopardize the safety of my fish.

[Fishguy2727]

If you are using Proper pH, than the water in the tank will be 8.2, even when you have drained it. So if you add buffer, it won't mess with your pH. If you do end up doing bigger water changes, you can pre-dissolve small quantities of salt and buffer, make each quantity treat what you fill a 5 gallon bucket with, usually about 4 gallons. Then, as you are filling each bucket, pour in one portion of the pre-dissolved salt buffer mix. This way all the water you add has the right amount of buffer and salt. It will be well mixed without the possibility of temporary over salting.

[Cichlid_Man]

True, The proper PH will not go over 8.2 (so they say) and that was my biggest issue.
I don't even have to worry about the salt level really.
I don't think the fish will be in any danger for 30 minutes while I refill the tank, then I can add the salt right back in and the proper PH will already be in there.
I know some folks who keep cichlids with no salt and they do very well too.

So, there is a way!
I am glad we kept at this.

[Slinky_Bass]

Reptileguy, when you first started doing your big water changes you said you eased into it, could you please tell me how you went about it, and also at what point did you stop using carbon?

[Fishguy2727]

I stopped using the carbon a few months ago when I was doing the research on HITH. I don't know how slowly I eased into the big changes. In general I would start with about 25% the first week, 50% the next, and on the third you should be ready for the 75%. Every tank and fish is different, so it is up to you to watch them and see how affected by it they are. At home and at work the fish will eat when the tank is 75% empty, so they do not have an issue with it, at least after the first one or two times.

[Cichlid_Man]

Well, I have already done a 50% change so I am OK with moving up to a 75% change.
I have other issues I would like to discuss but not on this thread.

Look for a post regarding my Fluval 405 and it's effectiveness.

I guess it will under technical and it is a spin off of my water clarity post.

[Whitney]

actually, I have a question about water changes....

I do a 15% water change about once a week. I use aged, dechlorinated water that is room-temperature......I've taken to siphoning the water into the tank from the bottle, so as to avoid disturbing the water too much.

It seems, however, that everytime I do a water change, my german blue rams get stressed out and don't come back to themselves for almost a day. Why is this? Is it normal?

[Fishguy2727]

Have you checked the pH of both tank and new water? How about temps for both? How exactly do they show signs of stress?

[Lady Hobbs]

Reptileguy, when you first started doing your big water changes you said you eased into it, could you please tell me how you went about it, and also at what point did you stop using carbon?

I was reading about Discus fish today and it warned to not use carbon filtering for these fish ever. I don't think carbon is all that cracked up to be if you are told to not use it for sensitive fish.

[Cichlid_Man]

I REALLY hate to keep going at this large water change business, but, I always check and re-check myself before I make changes to the way I think things should be done.

I finally decided to ask a college buddy of mine, who has fish, and is a environmental specialist by trade.
I asked him about large water changes in home aquariums, but first explained my situation with low PH tap water and the danger to fish.

His response was:
Dear Joe,
Do you use the pH buffer because of the pH dropping in the main aquarium overtime? If you have a good alkalinity level, you should constantly have a good pH level.

If you happen to keep an African cichlid tank which would require the higher pH levels, you have to stick with the smaller water changes. But you certainly have a problem here if your tank water is 8.2 and your source water for water changing is 6.0
Just do small water changes, but more often!

My advice to all out there is to first evaluate your situation before you do large water changes.
I almost killed my fish because of huge PH drops.
25 - 30% a week is MOST sufficient

[jeffs99dime]

I REALLY hate to keep going at this large water change business, but, I always check and re-check myself before I make changes to the way I think things should be done.

I finally decided to ask a college buddy of mine, who has fish, and is a environmental specialist by trade.
I asked him about large water changes in home aquariums, but first explained my situation with low PH tap water and the danger to fish.

His response was:
Dear Joe,
Do you use the pH buffer because of the pH dropping in the main aquarium overtime? If you have a good alkalinity level, you should constantly have a good pH level.

If you happen to keep an African cichlid tank which would require the higher pH levels, you have to stick with the smaller water changes. But you certainly have a problem here if your tank water is 8.2 and your source water for water changing is 6.0
Just do small water changes, but more often!

My advice to all out there is to first evaluate your situation before you do large water changes.
I almost killed my fish because of huge PH drops.
25 - 30% a week is MOST sufficient

i usually do 50-65 percent wc every week or so. the ph really fluctuation really depends on what the ph of your source water is in relation to your aquarium water. i think it is important to test ph, ammo,nitrite, nitrate before and after a water change for this reason. --jeff

[Cichlid_Man]

Thanks Jeff,

I have been going back and forth with this and until I heard from my friend who is an expert, and I finally decided to do small water changes, but more frequent.
My well water is like 6.0!
That's the problem. So, I am not disagreeing with the large water changes, it is just that for me, they are not feasible.
My friend also breeds fish and he told me he does 90% water changes, sometimes daily!
He's real good.

[Fishguy2727]

Is 6.0 what your tap water stays at, or does it slowly rise?

[jeffs99dime]

Is 6.0 what your tap water stays at, or does it slowly rise?

for this exact reason is why i conduct water changes before and after. the tap water parameters (ph) tends to change seasonally (mine does anyway)due to the water company adding or removing chemicals. eventually, i'm going to be hooking up an inline R.O. filtration unit for my source water. can't wait!

[Cichlid_Man]

My PH stays at 6.0.

I am going to call the county and ask what can be done to my well to change it.

I am not sure how healthy 6.0 is for humans either...

Maybe can cause skin issues, don't know...

The inline filtration unit is something I have been looking at for quite some time.
Does that also help PH? or does it just purify.

Also, with all the crushed coral substrate I have I can't understand why it doesn't adjust?

[jeffs99dime]

well, the ph can and will fluctuate once in the aquarium dependant on how the water qualities are kept up. reverse osmosis will keep the water at a constant ph every time before you add the water to the aquarium. also note, r.o. water does take out about 95-99% of the water impurities and silicates from the source water. additionally, once your source water is filtered through r.o. you have to add minerals to the filtered water dependant on fresh or salt water set-ups. there will be no need for chlorine/chloramine/heavy metals remover as the r.o. takes care of this. when i finally do set up my r.o, i'm going to set it up so i have a dedicated line strictly for aquarium use.--jeff:ezpi_wink1:

[Fishguy2727]

Home water systems usually have neutralizers. So you either do not have one and need to get one, or yours needs maintenance. Crushed coral is more of a long term assistant in buffering. We just added some to the 90 at work and it is now back to 7.2 after a couple months.